Current market
Discussion
It takes time for the problems to work their way through the system. If you bought a car for 100k on finance 2 years ago but you have 1 year left to run you can wait. But then you will have to stick or twist. If you sell now you can maybe clear your finance or you are under water a little. When your finance ends in 12 monrhs refinancing will cost maybe twice what it did 2 years ago. But the car will be worth less so you might not be able to finance the whole amount again. This will force more sellers to then come forward. It's not complicated. Lots of people still have their cheap finance deals. But these can't last forever. This means some can sit hoping low rates will return. If they don't they have 2 problems. Cars are now cheaper because expensive finance rates has driven down prices so if you sell you get a lot less. If you keep and refinance then you are paying the higher rates.
Denno B said:
What I find strange and can’t get my head round is the amount of private sales that are as much or even more than Opc prices. Must be a case of just so they can tell the wife it’s for sale to keep her happy with no intention of realistically selling!
I am sure you're right. I contacted a private seller of a 991 GTS this week via the form on the website. Their ad had listed very basic details like "full service history" and "immaculate condition". I asked for details of the services and specific questions about the exterior and interior and mechanicals. He replied "Have you read the ad". I said I had, and asked the specific questions again. He sent me dates of services but no other details. People talk about time wasting buyers, but what about time wasting sellers...Private sale used to mean you might get a bargain, at a risk. Now it seems to be more expensive cars, and weird sellers
Venosta said:
I am sure you're right. I contacted a private seller of a 991 GTS this week via the form on the website. Their ad had listed very basic details like "full service history" and "immaculate condition". I asked for details of the services and specific questions about the exterior and interior and mechanicals. He replied "Have you read the ad". I said I had, and asked the specific questions again. He sent me dates of services but no other details.
People talk about time wasting buyers, but what about time wasting sellers...Private sale used to mean you might get a bargain, at a risk. Now it seems to be more expensive cars, and weird sellers
That is a very good observation, @Venosta, when the deal is up and the keeper of the car has to decide: refinance at higher rate or buy for cash, we will see another wave of cars on the market at yet again lower prices. Speculators will be shaken-off and enthusiasts will have access to better cars.People talk about time wasting buyers, but what about time wasting sellers...Private sale used to mean you might get a bargain, at a risk. Now it seems to be more expensive cars, and weird sellers
My 6p ...
1. Many cars that would have provided the next deposit at the end of the finance will be in negative equity ... but many will just be passed back to the finance companies. If not, this could be a material reduction of the funds available for a deposit on the next car.
2. The cost of future finance will stay high due to higher interest rates and reduced guaranteed final values.
3. Porsche will continue to sell as many new cars as possible, ... they may even support the cost of finance ... which will minimise discounting and support secondhand values.
4. Excess cars should reduce prices ... by how much depends upon how specialist a car is relative to the market size ... and the financial resilience of prospective purchasers.
5. Add to this the number of cars from the speculator market ...
6. Deduct from this the number of cars being exported / written-off ...
But who knows what other influences there may be ... taxes on expensive / inefficient / luxury toys such as these ?
The answer is surely just to buy the best that you want to afford and use it ... there are very few investment cars.
1. Many cars that would have provided the next deposit at the end of the finance will be in negative equity ... but many will just be passed back to the finance companies. If not, this could be a material reduction of the funds available for a deposit on the next car.
2. The cost of future finance will stay high due to higher interest rates and reduced guaranteed final values.
3. Porsche will continue to sell as many new cars as possible, ... they may even support the cost of finance ... which will minimise discounting and support secondhand values.
4. Excess cars should reduce prices ... by how much depends upon how specialist a car is relative to the market size ... and the financial resilience of prospective purchasers.
5. Add to this the number of cars from the speculator market ...
6. Deduct from this the number of cars being exported / written-off ...
But who knows what other influences there may be ... taxes on expensive / inefficient / luxury toys such as these ?
The answer is surely just to buy the best that you want to afford and use it ... there are very few investment cars.
Speaking of timewasting sellers: I am currently looking for a good C2 GTS, either 997 or 991.2. I will buy either in the right spec with the right history etc,
A very nice looking one pops up in the classifieds. Good colour, alcantara everywhere, manual. At a dealer whose reputation is shall we say less than stellar, in north London, whom I believe I cannot name but has the words Motors in its name and is named after a trunk road. (Is that info allowed? Anyway)
On the principle that a good car is a good car, whoever sells it, I email, asking for details, service history, etc. I am told that it has a full service history, carried out by x, x being the name of a man, not a dealer or garage etc. The guy, whose name is known to many here, says it's immaculate and I should call his mobile for further details.
Having Googled x, and found no trace of him anywhere, I email back asking what or who x is and for more details of the services, invoices, dates, etc.
The guy replies saying the services have all been carried out, the car is immaculate, and (again) I should call him for further details.
But I don't want to call him. I want details on email, on the record, clear and no room for misinterpretation. I say, nicely, that I would like these details by email please, not by phone.
He hasn't contacted me again.
If I'd been younger and not bought so many cars, I would have eagerly called him, and who knows what would have happened. The car looks great in the ad and is a rare spec.
Time wasting seller - a dealer, this time.
A very nice looking one pops up in the classifieds. Good colour, alcantara everywhere, manual. At a dealer whose reputation is shall we say less than stellar, in north London, whom I believe I cannot name but has the words Motors in its name and is named after a trunk road. (Is that info allowed? Anyway)
On the principle that a good car is a good car, whoever sells it, I email, asking for details, service history, etc. I am told that it has a full service history, carried out by x, x being the name of a man, not a dealer or garage etc. The guy, whose name is known to many here, says it's immaculate and I should call his mobile for further details.
Having Googled x, and found no trace of him anywhere, I email back asking what or who x is and for more details of the services, invoices, dates, etc.
The guy replies saying the services have all been carried out, the car is immaculate, and (again) I should call him for further details.
But I don't want to call him. I want details on email, on the record, clear and no room for misinterpretation. I say, nicely, that I would like these details by email please, not by phone.
He hasn't contacted me again.
If I'd been younger and not bought so many cars, I would have eagerly called him, and who knows what would have happened. The car looks great in the ad and is a rare spec.
Time wasting seller - a dealer, this time.
Venosta said:
Speaking of timewasting sellers: I am currently looking for a good C2 GTS, either 997 or 991.2. I will buy either in the right spec with the right history etc,
A very nice looking one pops up in the classifieds. Good colour, alcantara everywhere, manual. At a dealer whose reputation is shall we say less than stellar, in north London, whom I believe I cannot name but has the words Motors in its name and is named after a trunk road. (Is that info allowed? Anyway)
On the principle that a good car is a good car, whoever sells it, I email, asking for details, service history, etc. I am told that it has a full service history, carried out by x, x being the name of a man, not a dealer or garage etc. The guy, whose name is known to many here, says it's immaculate and I should call his mobile for further details.
Having Googled x, and found no trace of him anywhere, I email back asking what or who x is and for more details of the services, invoices, dates, etc.
The guy replies saying the services have all been carried out, the car is immaculate, and (again) I should call him for further details.
But I don't want to call him. I want details on email, on the record, clear and no room for misinterpretation. I say, nicely, that I would like these details by email please, not by phone.
He hasn't contacted me again.
If I'd been younger and not bought so many cars, I would have eagerly called him, and who knows what would have happened. The car looks great in the ad and is a rare spec.
Time wasting seller - a dealer, this time.
Possibly plenty of people asking him to do the same a couple of times a week with no reply from them either?A very nice looking one pops up in the classifieds. Good colour, alcantara everywhere, manual. At a dealer whose reputation is shall we say less than stellar, in north London, whom I believe I cannot name but has the words Motors in its name and is named after a trunk road. (Is that info allowed? Anyway)
On the principle that a good car is a good car, whoever sells it, I email, asking for details, service history, etc. I am told that it has a full service history, carried out by x, x being the name of a man, not a dealer or garage etc. The guy, whose name is known to many here, says it's immaculate and I should call his mobile for further details.
Having Googled x, and found no trace of him anywhere, I email back asking what or who x is and for more details of the services, invoices, dates, etc.
The guy replies saying the services have all been carried out, the car is immaculate, and (again) I should call him for further details.
But I don't want to call him. I want details on email, on the record, clear and no room for misinterpretation. I say, nicely, that I would like these details by email please, not by phone.
He hasn't contacted me again.
If I'd been younger and not bought so many cars, I would have eagerly called him, and who knows what would have happened. The car looks great in the ad and is a rare spec.
Time wasting seller - a dealer, this time.
There are plenty of time wasters on the buyer front also as I found out when selling a couple of cars, id just ring him and have a conversation, don’t really see the problem with that?
Youforreal. said:
There are plenty of time wasters on the buyer front also as I found out when selling a couple of cars, id just ring him and have a conversation, don’t really see the problem with that?
The thing is as a seller you have no idea if a buyer is a time waster or genuine. So if you want to sell you have to invest your time into dealing with enquiries. Every enquiry you don't spend time on is potentially a lost sale.The last car I sold was a few years ago. I had advertised it and saw no response for around 4 or 5 weeks. Absolutely nothing. Then I got one enquiry by email. It was a load of questions. Initially I thought what a waste of time. But then I found myself with some free time a couple of days later so invested around 2 hours into a detailed reply with lots of information. I even added a few extra pics from my camera roll during the time I had owned it.
Long story short this guy bought it and I never even met him. He sent his dad to collect it. This even turned into a drawn out affair as his dad came to view but then decided to collect the next day and then changed the arrangements so I had been paid by bank transfer and then his dad came to collect over 24 hours later. This again ate into the amount of time I had to invest in the sale but I was hopeful the car was going to a good home. I won't make that mistake again as he sold it within around 6 months.
Being drawn to a new 992 Turbo S cab. There are 55 for sale on the Porsche Approved New and Used car locator. Some look to be priced at list. Others are discounted by £15-20k to prices around £185k. I saw one a few weeks back at a £26k saving. Has anyone bought one of these recently and willing to provide an insight to their discussion with the OPC on price? (PM me if preferred to keep it private). My feeling is that £30k off should be achievable as we approach the end of March. Unrealistic, or too generous?
IainF said:
Being drawn to a new 992 Turbo S cab. There are 55 for sale on the Porsche Approved New and Used car locator. Some look to be priced at list. Others are discounted by £15-20k to prices around £185k. I saw one a few weeks back at a £26k saving. Has anyone bought one of these recently and willing to provide an insight to their discussion with the OPC on price? (PM me if preferred to keep it private). My feeling is that £30k off should be achievable as we approach the end of March. Unrealistic, or too generous?
you can only offer a price and they say No then go up a little until they say yes ! I think you will get more off then £30k -start low for sure.just an observation on the "current market"
I am considering changing my daily F31 330D Touring - which is a phenomenal car, but I want another Porsche, so it was either
- Taycan (93kw battery, not too arsed about the rest, but 4s would be nice)
- 911
either with OPC warranty.
I noticed that Taycans have continued on a rapid depreciation curve (today, 760 cars on AT, with none of the ones I was looking at having sold). - Now starting from mid £40k
-911s - still solid values, which makes me think I should go for a 991.1 or ideally a 991.1 4s for the same amount.
The difference in insurance cost will negate all savings from not having to pay for charging. I have another car for the family so the 911 wouldn't be an issue.
all the above to say that I can see a split market. Taycans (and as always, Panameras) depreciating heavily. 911s values holding stronger than even historically.
Interesting times.
I am considering changing my daily F31 330D Touring - which is a phenomenal car, but I want another Porsche, so it was either
- Taycan (93kw battery, not too arsed about the rest, but 4s would be nice)
- 911
either with OPC warranty.
I noticed that Taycans have continued on a rapid depreciation curve (today, 760 cars on AT, with none of the ones I was looking at having sold). - Now starting from mid £40k
-911s - still solid values, which makes me think I should go for a 991.1 or ideally a 991.1 4s for the same amount.
The difference in insurance cost will negate all savings from not having to pay for charging. I have another car for the family so the 911 wouldn't be an issue.
all the above to say that I can see a split market. Taycans (and as always, Panameras) depreciating heavily. 911s values holding stronger than even historically.
Interesting times.
Youforreal. said:
Venosta said:
Speaking of timewasting sellers: I am currently looking for a good C2 GTS, either 997 or 991.2. I will buy either in the right spec with the right history etc,
A very nice looking one pops up in the classifieds. Good colour, alcantara everywhere, manual. At a dealer whose reputation is shall we say less than stellar, in north London, whom I believe I cannot name but has the words Motors in its name and is named after a trunk road. (Is that info allowed? Anyway)
On the principle that a good car is a good car, whoever sells it, I email, asking for details, service history, etc. I am told that it has a full service history, carried out by x, x being the name of a man, not a dealer or garage etc. The guy, whose name is known to many here, says it's immaculate and I should call his mobile for further details.
Having Googled x, and found no trace of him anywhere, I email back asking what or who x is and for more details of the services, invoices, dates, etc.
The guy replies saying the services have all been carried out, the car is immaculate, and (again) I should call him for further details.
But I don't want to call him. I want details on email, on the record, clear and no room for misinterpretation. I say, nicely, that I would like these details by email please, not by phone.
He hasn't contacted me again.
If I'd been younger and not bought so many cars, I would have eagerly called him, and who knows what would have happened. The car looks great in the ad and is a rare spec.
Time wasting seller - a dealer, this time.
Possibly plenty of people asking him to do the same a couple of times a week with no reply from them either?A very nice looking one pops up in the classifieds. Good colour, alcantara everywhere, manual. At a dealer whose reputation is shall we say less than stellar, in north London, whom I believe I cannot name but has the words Motors in its name and is named after a trunk road. (Is that info allowed? Anyway)
On the principle that a good car is a good car, whoever sells it, I email, asking for details, service history, etc. I am told that it has a full service history, carried out by x, x being the name of a man, not a dealer or garage etc. The guy, whose name is known to many here, says it's immaculate and I should call his mobile for further details.
Having Googled x, and found no trace of him anywhere, I email back asking what or who x is and for more details of the services, invoices, dates, etc.
The guy replies saying the services have all been carried out, the car is immaculate, and (again) I should call him for further details.
But I don't want to call him. I want details on email, on the record, clear and no room for misinterpretation. I say, nicely, that I would like these details by email please, not by phone.
He hasn't contacted me again.
If I'd been younger and not bought so many cars, I would have eagerly called him, and who knows what would have happened. The car looks great in the ad and is a rare spec.
Time wasting seller - a dealer, this time.
There are plenty of time wasters on the buyer front also as I found out when selling a couple of cars, id just ring him and have a conversation, don’t really see the problem with that?
If I ever buy a car I just go and see it. If it's a pile of rubbish, it's not a trip wasted in my view. Just a drive out, I like driving.
I saw one car in Pembrokeshire Wales (4hrs), then another in Carlisle (4 hrs). Bought the second one.
At no point did I ask for info or documents over the phone/email. I went to see the car and had a face to face with the previous owner.
When I'm selling, if they aren't willing to come and look at the car and see it for themselves, then I class them as not serious. Especially people making me offers without seeing it.
I have always done it the other way.
Find a car that I want, engage with the owner and ask for as much information as I need. I like fellow enthusiasts and I like to get a feel for the person selling. We agree a price before either of us have invested more than our time ... subject to the car being as described. Sometimes with an agreement that the car will be inspected by a reputable independent on the basis that anything that needs doing the owner pays for and and anything that I choose to do I pay for.
Then when we meet we can look across the paperwork and the car ... and very often all has been as expected. Money transfer made, drive home in car.
Find a car that I want, engage with the owner and ask for as much information as I need. I like fellow enthusiasts and I like to get a feel for the person selling. We agree a price before either of us have invested more than our time ... subject to the car being as described. Sometimes with an agreement that the car will be inspected by a reputable independent on the basis that anything that needs doing the owner pays for and and anything that I choose to do I pay for.
Then when we meet we can look across the paperwork and the car ... and very often all has been as expected. Money transfer made, drive home in car.
AceRockatansky said:
Quite.
If I ever buy a car I just go and see it. If it's a pile of rubbish, it's not a trip wasted in my view. Just a drive out, I like driving.
I saw one car in Pembrokeshire Wales (4hrs), then another in Carlisle (4 hrs). Bought the second one.
At no point did I ask for info or documents over the phone/email. I went to see the car and had a face to face with the previous owner.
When I'm selling, if they aren't willing to come and look at the car and see it for themselves, then I class them as not serious. Especially people making me offers without seeing it.
Not everyone has that much spare time. If I ever buy a car I just go and see it. If it's a pile of rubbish, it's not a trip wasted in my view. Just a drive out, I like driving.
I saw one car in Pembrokeshire Wales (4hrs), then another in Carlisle (4 hrs). Bought the second one.
At no point did I ask for info or documents over the phone/email. I went to see the car and had a face to face with the previous owner.
When I'm selling, if they aren't willing to come and look at the car and see it for themselves, then I class them as not serious. Especially people making me offers without seeing it.
What is wrong with people making you an offer without seeing it? Unless you have not described it properly, then they are making an offer on your description, if that offer is acceptable why wouldn't you accept it?
When seller say that it makes me think it isn't quite how they described it. Big red flag.
As a seller I list every thing, I spend a couple of hours or so listing all the history, major works done and then all the niggles and take as many photos needed to cover everything mentioned.
I don't think I have ever had a car take longer than a week, maybe two to sell and usually get inundated with enquires.
If it is an older car people want to know what has been done and what will need doing soon, if it is a newer car it literally takes 10 mins to list everything, so why wouldn't you?
Not saying you're wrong or anything, just pointing out, we are all different, if someone says I won't discuss my car over the phone do an 8 hour round trip and look through the paperwork yourself.....well........thanks but no thanks.
Ed.Neumann said:
AceRockatansky said:
Quite.
If I ever buy a car I just go and see it. If it's a pile of rubbish, it's not a trip wasted in my view. Just a drive out, I like driving.
I saw one car in Pembrokeshire Wales (4hrs), then another in Carlisle (4 hrs). Bought the second one.
At no point did I ask for info or documents over the phone/email. I went to see the car and had a face to face with the previous owner.
When I'm selling, if they aren't willing to come and look at the car and see it for themselves, then I class them as not serious. Especially people making me offers without seeing it.
Not everyone has that much spare time. If I ever buy a car I just go and see it. If it's a pile of rubbish, it's not a trip wasted in my view. Just a drive out, I like driving.
I saw one car in Pembrokeshire Wales (4hrs), then another in Carlisle (4 hrs). Bought the second one.
At no point did I ask for info or documents over the phone/email. I went to see the car and had a face to face with the previous owner.
When I'm selling, if they aren't willing to come and look at the car and see it for themselves, then I class them as not serious. Especially people making me offers without seeing it.
What is wrong with people making you an offer without seeing it? Unless you have not described it properly, then they are making an offer on your description, if that offer is acceptable why wouldn't you accept it?
When seller say that it makes me think it isn't quite how they described it. Big red flag.
As a seller I list every thing, I spend a couple of hours or so listing all the history, major works done and then all the niggles and take as many photos needed to cover everything mentioned.
I don't think I have ever had a car take longer than a week, maybe two to sell and usually get inundated with enquires.
If it is an older car people want to know what has been done and what will need doing soon, if it is a newer car it literally takes 10 mins to list everything, so why wouldn't you?
Not saying you're wrong or anything, just pointing out, we are all different, if someone says I won't discuss my car over the phone do an 8 hour round trip and look through the paperwork yourself.....well........thanks but no thanks.
"What's your best price mate"
Delete.
There's always room for negotiation, but people coming straight onto price and not wanting to see the car because you don't go low enough are only calling because they want it cheap.
Edited by AceRockatansky on Friday 16th February 11:49
AceRockatansky said:
We must have different experiences. Anyone asking:
"What's your best price mate"
Delete.
There's always room for negotiation, but people coming straight onto price and not wanting to see the car because you don't go low enough are only calling because they want it cheap.
"What's your best price mate"
Delete.
There's always room for negotiation, but people coming straight onto price and not wanting to see the car because you don't go low enough are only calling because they want it cheap.
Edited by AceRockatansky on Friday 16th February 11:49
Fully agree.
ChrisW. said:
I have always done it the other way.
Find a car that I want, engage with the owner and ask for as much information as I need. I like fellow enthusiasts and I like to get a feel for the person selling. We agree a price before either of us have invested more than our time ... subject to the car being as described. Sometimes with an agreement that the car will be inspected by a reputable independent on the basis that anything that needs doing the owner pays for and and anything that I choose to do I pay for.
Then when we meet we can look across the paperwork and the car ... and very often all has been as expected. Money transfer made, drive home in car.
This is exactly what i would do...if the seller doesn't want to play ball over the phone or on email then i wouldn't bother.Find a car that I want, engage with the owner and ask for as much information as I need. I like fellow enthusiasts and I like to get a feel for the person selling. We agree a price before either of us have invested more than our time ... subject to the car being as described. Sometimes with an agreement that the car will be inspected by a reputable independent on the basis that anything that needs doing the owner pays for and and anything that I choose to do I pay for.
Then when we meet we can look across the paperwork and the car ... and very often all has been as expected. Money transfer made, drive home in car.
AceRockatansky said:
We must have different experiences. Anyone asking:
"What's your best price mate"
Delete.
There's always room for negotiation, but people coming straight onto price and not wanting to see the car because you don't go low enough are only calling because they want it cheap.
You didn't say that though, you said at no point when you see a car you like the look of do you ask for info. "What's your best price mate"
Delete.
There's always room for negotiation, but people coming straight onto price and not wanting to see the car because you don't go low enough are only calling because they want it cheap.
AceRockatansky said:
At no point did I ask for info or documents over the phone/email.
You said you just go and drive 3 hours or so and have a look. Whatever works I guess. We're all different.
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