Boxster Spyder
Discussion
Porsche911R said:
Is the clutch thing a forum issue from nothing ? , as I have met NO one who says wow I hate this lighter clutch press bar AV185.
Would you not prefer a weightier clutch though if you didn't have a dodgy knee?I am lucky my knees are good, so far. The 997 GT3 of course was the other extreme and too heavy.
The clutch weighting on the 991.3 GT3 is identical to that on my (now sold) Carrera T. This is Ok in the T and other more 'vanilla' 911s but the fact that it is a light clutch imo goes against the ethos of the 991.2 GT3 ie it is relatively hardcore as a package (moreso than the 991.1 GT3) and it should be the case you have to work a bit more to extract the best performance in the 911 GT3 ethos but the light clutch goes against that principle which is a shame.
As previously mentioned imo the 981 GT4 has the best clutch in all of the recent Porsches and as the gearbox throw and weighting is equally perfect and on a par with the GT3, why doesn't the GT3 clutch have a similar weighting also bearing in mind the GT3 is more hardcore than the GT4 and also a 'proper' GT Porsche.
Edited by av185 on Tuesday 23 July 12:22
isaldiri said:
TB303 said:
but it’s just a little bit self righteous at times...
Understatement of the year!!! 
Cars are what they are, what does happen is if I say a bad thing about any thing it's upsets owners, where if I don't like some thing I just sell it !
Owners will say black is white and EPS is no different. just sold the 991.1 GTS really down to the EPS and PASM, but a great engine, the one that should have been in the gt4.
it is what is is and I just say as much out loud. without thinking most of the time, but I am pretty honest about it all imo.
av185 said:
Would you not prefer a weightier clutch though if you didn't have a dodgy knee?
I am lucky my knees are good, so far. The 997 GT3 of course was the other extreme and too heavy.
The clutch weighting on the 991.3 GT3 is identical to that on my (now sold) Carrera T. This is Ok in the T and other more 'vanilla' 911s but the fact that it is a light clutch imo goes against the ethos of the 991.2 GT3 ie it is relatively hardcore as a package (moreso than the 991.1 GT3) and it should be the case you have to work a bit more to extract the best performance in the 911 GT3 ethos but the light clutch goes against that principle which is a shame.
As previously mentioned imo the 981 GT4 has the best clutch in all of the recent Porsches and as the gearbox throw and weighting is equally perfect and on a par with the GT3, why doesn't the GT3 clutch have a similar weighting also bearing in mind the GT3 is more hardcore than the GT4 and also a 'proper' GT Porsche.
hand on heart I hate heavy clutch's I feel no need for a car to have such an issue. My knee's not that bad, The GT4 was fine. I am lucky my knees are good, so far. The 997 GT3 of course was the other extreme and too heavy.
The clutch weighting on the 991.3 GT3 is identical to that on my (now sold) Carrera T. This is Ok in the T and other more 'vanilla' 911s but the fact that it is a light clutch imo goes against the ethos of the 991.2 GT3 ie it is relatively hardcore as a package (moreso than the 991.1 GT3) and it should be the case you have to work a bit more to extract the best performance in the 911 GT3 ethos but the light clutch goes against that principle which is a shame.
As previously mentioned imo the 981 GT4 has the best clutch in all of the recent Porsches and as the gearbox throw and weighting is equally perfect and on a par with the GT3, why doesn't the GT3 clutch have a similar weighting also bearing in mind the GT3 is more hardcore than the GT4 and also a 'proper' GT Porsche.
Edited by av185 on Tuesday 23 July 12:22
I just cycle less because of it (that's the pisser) and I think a 997 GT 3 would bring the issues back.
but having a lighter clutch in the GT3 is no bad thing imo.
a heavy clutch would not lead to great flat shifts and would bang back up not in a nice way. I bet there is a helper spring on the pedal, just disconnect that.
My golf has one, most people take it off.
I don't see how else they can make it light without a helper spring, could be a 5 second fix if you want more weight, but as no one else does seem to mind it, I bet no ones looked to see if there is a clutch spring or not.
for me pressing a clutch is pressing a clutch, faster the better, like a nice slick shift, you don't want a stiff shift like the Lotus shifts, it just makes for slow shifts.
i'll flat shift the GT3 and loose at most 2/10th over a PDK, I would hope the more BHP to the wheels and less weight offsets that as seen in the USA drag races where the manuals are faster cars down the strips.
the funs in the changing of gear and having to think about pressing the pedal and using both legs and arms, not in the weight of the pedal for me anyways ;-) as you are not riding a clutch or slipping a clutch, just make it as fast and easy as possible imo, it's the same workload to drive.
Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 23 July 12:59
Porsche911R said:
Fokker said:
I'm sure the new 718 Spyder will be a great drivers car but the light clutch, lighter gear change and lighter steering does worry me.
I like the slight meatiness of the 981, its feels more like the GT products of old in that department. The 991.2 GT3 manual's clutch and gear change just isn't as nice, full stop. They got the 981 very right apart from the long gearing in my opinion but then it never feels like it lacks tongue to me.
Ive done 8000 in my spyder now and its a great car. It is very loud but with the exhaust button off, its quieter under 3500 revs and you dont get the pops and bangs if you want a quieter driver of you're driving though some sleepy villages.
The noise of the 981 is what's going to separate it from the 718, and the fact that with X73, it'll probably be a better road car.
I'm not going to swap it for the new one.
EPS is still poor though, to a point it's pretty sI like the slight meatiness of the 981, its feels more like the GT products of old in that department. The 991.2 GT3 manual's clutch and gear change just isn't as nice, full stop. They got the 981 very right apart from the long gearing in my opinion but then it never feels like it lacks tongue to me.
Ive done 8000 in my spyder now and its a great car. It is very loud but with the exhaust button off, its quieter under 3500 revs and you dont get the pops and bangs if you want a quieter driver of you're driving though some sleepy villages.
The noise of the 981 is what's going to separate it from the 718, and the fact that with X73, it'll probably be a better road car.
I'm not going to swap it for the new one.
t all told.,I had to move the 991.1 GTS on and that's the best of the lot in that era.981 feels nothing like GT cars of old in any way shape or form !!
As for clutch weight , many of us buyers love the clutch not being 997 weighty means we can drive them daily no issue.
Is the clutch thing a forum issue from nothing ? , as I have met NO one who says wow I hate this lighter clutch press bar AV185.
for me it's a revelation :-) and the main reason I don't own a 997.2 RS !!! makes flat shifting a real thing to do rather than s on paper option.
as for gear change 991.2 GT3 change is on a par with the GT4/981, it's not even worth bringing it up, it's a nice short positive throw which does the job very well. I do wonder if some cars feel different as this point seems divided ! and maybe just need adjusting. I cannot fault the gear change.
the fact is the 981 is a lifestyle car imo and does that job very well apart from no boot access which was annoying as a daily and I took the roof off less in the 981 as that's just hassle, where in the 987 I just keep it off anyway.
It was my other half fav cars , says it all.
I have to say the 981 Spyder is the least GT type car ever made with undoubtably the worse steering in any GT type of car ever made also.
That does not make it a bad car , also people must realise I am not slagging it off, it's a great car, just not that much fun or exciting.
Hence it fits for me into a "lifestyle" type of car. nice to take the oh out, a bit rare, drives ok, sounds ok ish etc etc.
I wish I had time to fit the 987 wheels onto mine to see what happened.
But at the end of the day the EPS and gearing killed the car.
I know you hate it, but you keep going on about it like it matters to everyone, it only really matters to a select few really.
Lol the only reason you don't have a 997.2 RS is because of the cost not the heavy clutch, didn't you say in another thread you'd have one over the 991.2 GT3 but don't because of the cost?
Gearing deffinatly hurt the car, along with EPS, but none killed it, imo.
Porsche911R said:
av185 said:
Would you not prefer a weightier clutch though if you didn't have a dodgy knee?
I am lucky my knees are good, so far. The 997 GT3 of course was the other extreme and too heavy.
The clutch weighting on the 991.3 GT3 is identical to that on my (now sold) Carrera T. This is Ok in the T and other more 'vanilla' 911s but the fact that it is a light clutch imo goes against the ethos of the 991.2 GT3 ie it is relatively hardcore as a package (moreso than the 991.1 GT3) and it should be the case you have to work a bit more to extract the best performance in the 911 GT3 ethos but the light clutch goes against that principle which is a shame.
As previously mentioned imo the 981 GT4 has the best clutch in all of the recent Porsches and as the gearbox throw and weighting is equally perfect and on a par with the GT3, why doesn't the GT3 clutch have a similar weighting also bearing in mind the GT3 is more hardcore than the GT4 and also a 'proper' GT Porsche.
hand on heart I hate heavy clutch's I feel no need for a car to have such an issue. My knee's not that bad, The GT4 was fine. I am lucky my knees are good, so far. The 997 GT3 of course was the other extreme and too heavy.
The clutch weighting on the 991.3 GT3 is identical to that on my (now sold) Carrera T. This is Ok in the T and other more 'vanilla' 911s but the fact that it is a light clutch imo goes against the ethos of the 991.2 GT3 ie it is relatively hardcore as a package (moreso than the 991.1 GT3) and it should be the case you have to work a bit more to extract the best performance in the 911 GT3 ethos but the light clutch goes against that principle which is a shame.
As previously mentioned imo the 981 GT4 has the best clutch in all of the recent Porsches and as the gearbox throw and weighting is equally perfect and on a par with the GT3, why doesn't the GT3 clutch have a similar weighting also bearing in mind the GT3 is more hardcore than the GT4 and also a 'proper' GT Porsche.
Edited by av185 on Tuesday 23 July 12:22
I just cycle less because of it (that's the pisser) and I think a 997 GT 3 would bring the issues back.
but having a lighter clutch in the GT3 is no bad thing imo.
a heavy clutch would not lead to great flat shifts and would bang back up not in a nice way. I bet there is a helper spring on the pedal, just disconnect that.
My golf has one, most people take it off.
I don't see how else they can make it light without a helper spring, could be a 5 second fix if you want more weight, but as no one else does seem to mind it, I bet no ones looked to see if there is a clutch spring or not.
for me pressing a clutch is pressing a clutch, faster the better, like a nice slick shift, you don't want a stiff shift like the Lotus shifts, it just makes for slow shifts.
i'll flat shift the GT3 and loose at most 2/10th over a PDK, I would hope the more BHP to the wheels and less weight offsets that as seen in the USA drag races where the manuals are faster cars down the strips.
the funs in the changing of gear and having to think about pressing the pedal and using both legs and arms, not in the weight of the pedal for me anyways ;-) as you are not riding a clutch or slipping a clutch, just make it as fast and easy as possible imo, it's the same workload to drive.
Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 23 July 12:59
TB303 said:
JayK12 said:
For road I'm not too bothered on the detail of how particular it drives, it just needs to be fun. If I'm on track I'll really particular. My BGTS Manual was great fun on the roads, but always left me wanting for more, not more power, not more handling, just more WOW, something a bit more special, something more exotic.
Hence I'm leaning to an R8 V10 Spyder in Manual.........but maybe it needs to be a Gallardo or F430 lol.....R8 V10 just seem great value for money right now. As i now have a dedicated track car again I don't feel the need to have a fun road car that amazing pace, or unreal handling etc. If that makes sense.
If you can stretch to a 458 I would do that instead of the 430 personally. I think the 360 actually has a more zingy (but less torquey) engine, and the gearing is lower than the 430, which like the 488 vs 458 they upped the torque and made the gearing longer.... At least you get to bang through a few gears on the the road in a 360 or 458...Hence I'm leaning to an R8 V10 Spyder in Manual.........but maybe it needs to be a Gallardo or F430 lol.....R8 V10 just seem great value for money right now. As i now have a dedicated track car again I don't feel the need to have a fun road car that amazing pace, or unreal handling etc. If that makes sense.
Gallardo (I drove fairly early spider for a day) felt a bit numb at the front compared to the 987.1S I had at the time. Great engine, and felt special etc of course. Single clutch gear box horrible, and early manuals at least do 60 or so in first gear?
I agree with your point about specialness - you’ll never quite get it from a box/cayman compared to something Italian, but it does come with a host of other things - some good, some bad. Porsches are very convenient!
R8 V10 is amazing value. I just think a bit too much for the road maybe, and the boot is too small for the Euro touring I like to do, plus you’ve got the same electric steering matters...
I’m actually with 911R on most of his comments by the way, but it’s just a little bit self righteous at times as we all have slightly unique requirements from our cars...
I don't mind Davids comments at all, I might not agree with all of them, but I don't want my road car to be the ultimate fastest car on the planet, just a fun soft top with some specialness to it, hence thinking of the R8 V10, great engine, great value, and still a manual, great price at circa 50K for an under 30K miler.....yes it needs an exhaust to really bring out the V10, yes the steering doesn't feel amazing, but I personally don't care about these for a road car now.
If i want something with feel and clinicalness and very fast it would be a Mclaren 570s.
av185 said:
Would you not prefer a weightier clutch though if you didn't have a dodgy knee?
As previously mentioned imo the 981 GT4 has the best clutch in all of the recent Porsches and as the gearbox throw and weighting is equally perfect and on a par with the GT3, why doesn't the GT3 clutch have a similar weighting also bearing in mind the GT3 is more hardcore than the GT4 and also a 'proper' GT Porsche.
This is what i was alluding too before 'someone' took it out of context. I said 'in this area' which, as you've just correctly said imo, the clutch weight and gearbox slight stiffness is perfect on the GT4 and 981 Spyder. My GT3 clutch was too light and the gearbox just not a positive. I'd have a GT3 over the GT4 mostly but the clutch and box in the GT3 slightly disappoints me. As previously mentioned imo the 981 GT4 has the best clutch in all of the recent Porsches and as the gearbox throw and weighting is equally perfect and on a par with the GT3, why doesn't the GT3 clutch have a similar weighting also bearing in mind the GT3 is more hardcore than the GT4 and also a 'proper' GT Porsche.
Edited by av185 on Tuesday 23 July 12:22
I find the 981 Spyder a great road car. Its barely different to a GT4 at road speeds and the passive suspension is excellent. If anything, the GT4 is very noisy inside, whereas the Spyder is more exotic sounding. Love it.... New one a disappointment in this area!!! Crap!
Fokker said:
av185 said:
Would you not prefer a weightier clutch though if you didn't have a dodgy knee?
As previously mentioned imo the 981 GT4 has the best clutch in all of the recent Porsches and as the gearbox throw and weighting is equally perfect and on a par with the GT3, why doesn't the GT3 clutch have a similar weighting also bearing in mind the GT3 is more hardcore than the GT4 and also a 'proper' GT Porsche.
This is what i was alluding too before 'someone' took it out of context. I said 'in this area' which, as you've just correctly said imo, the clutch weight and gearbox slight stiffness is perfect on the GT4 and 981 Spyder. My GT3 clutch was too light and the gearbox just not a positive. I'd have a GT3 over the GT4 mostly but the clutch and box in the GT3 slightly disappoints me. As previously mentioned imo the 981 GT4 has the best clutch in all of the recent Porsches and as the gearbox throw and weighting is equally perfect and on a par with the GT3, why doesn't the GT3 clutch have a similar weighting also bearing in mind the GT3 is more hardcore than the GT4 and also a 'proper' GT Porsche.
Edited by av185 on Tuesday 23 July 12:22
I find the 981 Spyder a great road car. Its barely different to a GT4 at road speeds and the passive suspension is excellent. If anything, the GT4 is very noisy inside, whereas the Spyder is more exotic sounding. Love it.... New one a disappointment in this area!!! Crap!
I would say the clutch on my 981 Spyder is actually slightly lighter than my GT4 but they are both near perfect imo.
Re the 718 Spyder why is everyone assuming that the epas will be the same as the 981 just based on a few randomers during short tests.
Ignorance was perfectly displayed by Autocar? stating the 981 GT4 had a powerkitted Carrera S engine
so I would hardly attach any credibility to any comments made regarding steering quality on the 718.We know the 981 Spyder had non GT suspension and came on non cup Pirellis so even if the epas software was identical to the GT4 it is bound to feel hugely different due to tyres and chassis. Clearly now that the 718 Spyder is identical in these areas to the 718 GT4 chances are the steering will feel identical and given Porsches history in improving evolving generational steering feel since epas replaced hydraulic, I would be more inclined to think the718 steering would be a step up from the 981 particularly in the case of the Spyder and accordingly await quality journos road tests confirming this.
Edited by av185 on Tuesday 23 July 15:40
JayK12 said:
Does any of this matter on the road though? Are you logging lap times for you favourite b roads? I don't see the need for outright pace on the road, just seems pointless.
I did say the only flaw now with my GT3 is it's too fast !Fun as I drive it fast ,but daft as I drive it fast.
I want to sell it but don't want to sell it, stuck in between a rock and a hard place with it atm.
It has everything I disliked about my GT4 put right.
I would regret selling it but don't need it. but do like it, so still own it ;-)
Fokker said:
I'm not going to swap it for the new one.
Nor me Dave..After reading the reviews i think its far too muted and reading the spec sheet too heavy..Its lost the simplicity of the 981 Spyder IMO...Edited by Fokker on Tuesday 23 July 11:22
Edited by Fokker on Tuesday 23 July 11:22
Porsche911R said:
I did say the only flaw now with my GT3 is it's too fast !
Fun as I drive it fast ,but daft as I drive it fast.
I want to sell it but don't want to sell it, stuck in between a rock and a hard place with it atm.
It has everything I disliked about my GT4 put right.
I would regret selling it but don't need it. but do like it, so still own it ;-)
6 months after selling my GT3, I can comfortably says it’s the worse automotive decision I've made.....Fun as I drive it fast ,but daft as I drive it fast.
I want to sell it but don't want to sell it, stuck in between a rock and a hard place with it atm.
It has everything I disliked about my GT4 put right.
I would regret selling it but don't need it. but do like it, so still own it ;-)
Taffy66 said:
Fokker said:
I'm not going to swap it for the new one.
Nor me Dave..After reading the reviews i think its far too muted and reading the spec sheet too heavy..Its lost the simplicity of the 981 Spyder IMO...Edited by Fokker on Tuesday 23 July 11:22
Edited by Fokker on Tuesday 23 July 11:22
Some might scoff but I would rather have a boxster t and 30k cash or a boxster gts and 15k cash than a 718 spyder.
cars like the t and gts are still special for me coming from a very hot hatch background.
Top down , very fast , still a sense of occasion.
As a slight contrast .I went out in my brothers immaculate 986 s anni the other night. What a sweet car! Plenty of power . Roof down. Not a dated drive at all. Alot of car for the money if you get a minter that has been cherished like his has been.
Still a tidy looking car.
In terms of overly high gearing on both the 718 and 981 Spyder there are some important distinctions which need to be considered..After studying the power/torque charts of both cars the 981 Spyder produces more power and torque up to 6k revs whereas the 718 produces more above 6.5K revs..As a consequence there is less incentive to chase the red line in the 981 and change up at about 6.5K making the high gearing less of an issue IMO..
Taffy66 said:
In terms of overly high gearing on both the 718 and 981 Spyder there are some important distinctions which need to be considered..After studying the power/torque charts of both cars the 981 Spyder produces more power and torque up to 6k revs whereas the 718 produces more above 6.5K revs..As a consequence there is less incentive to chase the red line in the 981 and change up at about 6.5K making the high gearing less of an issue IMO..
I was having the same thought the other day - I love a revvy engine and in theory much prefer the power up top (it’s probably what stops me selling my 360 as it offers something different), but with the gearing being the same as the 981 it’s surely going to worsen any current tall gearing issues. Boo!Taffy66 said:
In terms of overly high gearing on both the 718 and 981 Spyder there are some important distinctions which need to be considered..After studying the power/torque charts of both cars the 981 Spyder produces more power and torque up to 6k revs whereas the 718 produces more above 6.5K revs..As a consequence there is less incentive to chase the red line in the 981 and change up at about 6.5K making the high gearing less of an issue IMO..
you can talk yourself into that ;-) 
Gassing Station | Boxster/Cayman | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff