Boxster Spyder
Discussion
notsomadmick said:
Some surprisingly mixed comments on this topic, but we all have our views. I have enjoyed 18 modern Porsche’s over the last 20 years. Some more memorable than others. Currently I am fortunate to have a 991.2 GT3 sitting alongside my 981 Spyder. If I had no other choice but to sell one, I would narrowly keep the 981. It may have long gears, but as a fast B road car it puts a smile on my face like nothing else for the money, and it also looks even better than the 987 or 718 versions (imo anyway.) Buy what makes you smile the most, but the 981 is unlikely to disappoint or depreciate...
I have also owned about the same number of Porsches as you have over a similar time span..My first was a basic Boxster 2.7 which with only 220PS provided as much on road thrills as any i've owned since..Another coincidence is that i also currently own both a 991.2GT3 PDK and a 981 Spyder..I recently bought a 458 Italia which means my garage includes three two seater bucket seated sportscars which is more than i realistically have time to drive.After spending yesterday afternoon driving my 458 and today driving my 981 Spyder(top down) i'm rather perplexed on which of my cars i'd sell if forced to..My GT3 is objectively the best car however today with the sun shining my favourite of all three was the Spyder.
Interesting reading all the above. I just sold a McLaren 12C, Ferrari F355 & an Exige 350 and after 6 months of test drives and research have replaced with an Exige 430 Cup & a 981 Spyder.
I absolutely love the 981 Spyder, I have a smile on my face every time i drive it. I Could not care less if anyone thinks they will be worth £60k or whatever in 12 months. Memories are made on road trips & days out and that is worth much more than money. If I lose £15k in a year but have taken 3 amazing road trips then that's less than 3 x 1 week holidays in the Caribbean.
I lost out on my ideal spec Spyder twice as I thought I could haggle and eventually the sellers would drop their prices, but they did not. I ended up with 95% my perfect car. There are only around 200 x 981 Spyders, if you see one you like in a spec you like then buy it and don't dilly dally. Enjoy it and if it loses money so what, keep your money in the bank if you don't want to lose any and just drool at other peoples cars.
I absolutely love the 981 Spyder, I have a smile on my face every time i drive it. I Could not care less if anyone thinks they will be worth £60k or whatever in 12 months. Memories are made on road trips & days out and that is worth much more than money. If I lose £15k in a year but have taken 3 amazing road trips then that's less than 3 x 1 week holidays in the Caribbean.
I lost out on my ideal spec Spyder twice as I thought I could haggle and eventually the sellers would drop their prices, but they did not. I ended up with 95% my perfect car. There are only around 200 x 981 Spyders, if you see one you like in a spec you like then buy it and don't dilly dally. Enjoy it and if it loses money so what, keep your money in the bank if you don't want to lose any and just drool at other peoples cars.
RSVP911 said:
All I’m saying is, if you think second gear in a Spyder is too fast - then the GT3 would be the same plus and you rave about that car - so I’m afraid you aren’t making sense.
Too fast for the car...….If you drove them you would understand what I mean , and why I sold my 996 GT3, did not fully love the GT4 and think people rave too much over the 981 Spyder. Really has nothing to do with them being too fast although that is another issue of course.
That's why I joke and wonder if people drive them, how many miles has your 997.2 GT3 done again :-)
The 991.2 Manual has so much power it's on a different level to drive , you can get though the gears as you don't need the long bits of road a 996 GT3 and a 981/GT4 need and thus you are going faster in a shorter time which then means you are braking more for the bends etc etc it's far more involving than the GT4/981 Spyders, the down side is on the straight bits you see 140mph quite easy.
Has nothing to do with being too fast, it's how the car drives with that power and gear set up, and it's pretty dull all told in the 981 models to a point you pick 3rd gear and you can leave it in there , and will still never see red line. The very same issue my 996 GT3 had !!! but no surprise they are the same power with about the same gearing !!
Hence I wonder about the 996 GT3 lot, the GT4 lot and the 981 Spyder lot as they are just no fun to drive really in the UK on B roads, so I do wonder why they get so excited !
I never took my 981's out for a fun drive, I always picked up the R keys every time.
But as I said the 981 Spyder makes a really nice life style car or a daily, but then the roof is a pain for such a car.
I can see why the Auto lot like the Spyder, that's because it has a MANUAL and it seems a lot of people bought the wrong GT3 lol
who wants to take out a Auotmatic for a fun drive lol
Taffy66 said:
I have also got my eye out for either an Elise Cup 250 or Exige 430..Exige 430 makes a perfect partner to a 981 Spyder IMO.
you really need a 987.2 Spyder it's like owning a working 6 pot Elise ;-), we should meet after March and you should drive mine.Although I am also after a Elise now as I am driving way way to fast in my GT3 and the Elise is a perfect track tool to run £ for £ and will lap the same as a GT4.
Sadly I don't have GT3 track running money.
I retired my 987.2 Spyder form track use a few year back. But it's the most fun car I own hence why after 8 years I still have it , where my other 73 cars have come and gone.
Edited by Porsche911R on Monday 18th February 08:52
It sounds to me that those who like the Spyder enjoy the roof off experience, the sound, the looks, the package etc and using the car as it was intended - enjoying driving around on the road in good weather.
Your posts, on the other hand, imply all cars must be driven as if every road is a race track with complete disregard for limits - speed or driver ability. If you're routinely redlining your GT3 on the road that's completely inappropriate driving IMHO.
Your posts, on the other hand, imply all cars must be driven as if every road is a race track with complete disregard for limits - speed or driver ability. If you're routinely redlining your GT3 on the road that's completely inappropriate driving IMHO.
Porsche911R said:
The 991.2 Manual has so much power it's on a different level to drive , you can get though the gears as you don't need the long bits of road a 996 GT3 and a 981/GT4 need and thus you are going faster in a shorter time which then means you are braking more for the bends etc etc it's far more involving than the GT4/981 Spyders, the down side is on the straight bits you see 140mph quite easy.
140? With respect that’s ridiculous. You’re lucky to still have your licence. I’d offload that GT3 ASAP if I were you.Porsche911R said:
you really need a 987.2 Spyder it's like owning a working 6 pot Elise ;-), we should meet after March and you should drive mine.
Although I am also after a Elise now as I am driving way way to fast in my GT3 and the Elise is a perfect track tool to run £ for £ and will lap the same as a GT4.
Despite my 458 being faster than both my 991.2GT3 and Spyder it feels more involving to drive for whatever reason..Lower gearing plays a big part in that but the hyper fast turn-in is also different..You need both a steady hand and steady right foot to get the 458 is be at its best which makes it more fun at sensible road speeds.The GT3 is so accomplished it needs to be driven at warp speeds to show its true character.At those speeds its fantastic and a different league to my 981 Spyder.Although I am also after a Elise now as I am driving way way to fast in my GT3 and the Elise is a perfect track tool to run £ for £ and will lap the same as a GT4.
The Spyder is at its best driven at 80% with the top down on a sunny day..The GT3 is at its best when driven at 100% which is not very socially friendly.The 458 is involving from 10% all the way to 100%..
All fantastic cars, just with very different briefs.
Porsche911R said:
Too fast for the car...….
Has nothing to do with being too fast, it's how the car drives with that power and gear set up, and it's pretty dull all told in the 981 models to a point you pick 3rd gear and you can leave it in there , and will still never see red line. The very same issue my 996 GT3 had !!! but no surprise they are the same power with about the same gearing !!
That's not what you said earlier.Has nothing to do with being too fast, it's how the car drives with that power and gear set up, and it's pretty dull all told in the 981 models to a point you pick 3rd gear and you can leave it in there , and will still never see red line. The very same issue my 996 GT3 had !!! but no surprise they are the same power with about the same gearing !!
Porsche911R said:
They are sexy for sure, but any road car which does 85mph in 2nd cannot be raved about imo.
Outright claim as usual with zero caveats. The .2 gt3 does 85mph in 2nd gear. You rave about it.isaldiri said:
Outright claim as usual with zero caveats. The .2 gt3 does 85mph in 2nd gear. You rave about it.
Its not until i drove my 458 did the over high gearing on all Porsches become so obvious..Ironically i don't find it as frustrating in the Spyder as its in the GT3 as i just use it for top down cruising..My PDK 991.2GT3 has a 4.5% lower final drive ratio compared to the Manual version which makes a small difference.The 458 has perfect sensible gearing for all scenarios.Funny thing is that even in Porsches top gear could do with being a little higher for quiet motorway cruising, its just gears 2 and 3 which are overly high and makes the Manual box less useable than it could be with these two gears being at least 10% lower.
Not as much an issue on my PDK GT3, just it wants to be driven at warp speed to get into its natural rhythm..Probably an unavoidable side effect from chasing ever faster Ring times during development.
Taffy66 said:
Its not until i drove my 458 did the over high gearing on all Porsches become so obvious..Ironically i don't find it as frustrating in the Spyder as its in the GT3 as i just use it for top down cruising..My PDK 991.2GT3 has a 4.5% lower final drive ratio compared to the Manual version which makes a small difference.
The 458 has perfect sensible gearing for all scenarios.Funny thing is that even in Porsches top gear could do with being a little higher for quiet motorway cruising, its just gears 2 and 3 which are overly high and makes the Manual box less useable than it could be with these two gears being at least 10% lower.
Not as much an issue on my PDK GT3, just it wants to be driven at warp speed to get into its natural rhythm..Probably an unavoidable side effect from chasing ever faster Ring times during development.
Well that's the thing. Involving and/or perfect means different thing to different people. It seems a very difficult concept to grasp by some The 458 has perfect sensible gearing for all scenarios.Funny thing is that even in Porsches top gear could do with being a little higher for quiet motorway cruising, its just gears 2 and 3 which are overly high and makes the Manual box less useable than it could be with these two gears being at least 10% lower.
Not as much an issue on my PDK GT3, just it wants to be driven at warp speed to get into its natural rhythm..Probably an unavoidable side effect from chasing ever faster Ring times during development.
. For example, I personally think the 458 feels very artificial in trying to seem involving as the steering/throttle is too sensitive to small inputs but that's what make the car 'active' at low speeds. Involving to me means the car transmits a reasonable about of chassis information and feel at sensible (or semi sensible) road speeds irrespective of gearbox which although I prefer a manual, lack of one isn't any way a dealbreaker.. The gearing on the 458 is too front loaded (1st 3 gears very short, very long after 4th) for me as well but again I don't particularly think even the gt4's gearing was too high (it lacked engine power/top end rather than having a gearing problem imo) nevermind the rest of the gt3s but i can see why you (and a lot of others) like the Ferrari though. YMMV....
Edited by isaldiri on Monday 18th February 10:56
Taffy66 said:
Despite my 458 being faster than both my 991.2GT3 and Spyder it feels more involving to drive for whatever reason..Lower gearing plays a big part in that but the hyper fast turn-in is also different..You need both a steady hand and steady right foot to get the 458 is be at its best which makes it more fun at sensible road speeds.The GT3 is so accomplished it needs to be driven at warp speeds to show its true character.At those speeds its fantastic and a different league to my 981 Spyder.
The Spyder is at its best driven at 80% with the top down on a sunny day..The GT3 is at its best when driven at 100% which is not very socially friendly.The 458 is involving from 10% all the way to 100%..
All fantastic cars, just with very different briefs.
Sorry Taffy I disagree about the 458 being more involving than the GT3. How can it be?The Spyder is at its best driven at 80% with the top down on a sunny day..The GT3 is at its best when driven at 100% which is not very socially friendly.The 458 is involving from 10% all the way to 100%..
All fantastic cars, just with very different briefs.
Auto transmission is a major minus. But I know your GT3 is PDK as opposed to the more involving and challenging 'manuel'. Try a 'manuel' and you will find it far more involving even at slow speeds. As Catchpole rightly said PDK is analogous to instant coffee 'manuel' is like fresh coffee and far more satisfying.
But there's more to it than that.
The steering on the GT3 is better and more communicative. The 458 is too fast imo.
Then there is the 458s width. To wide and hence restrictive for that typical UK B road. Whereas the GT3 is as chuckable as ever...typically 911in fact.
The 458 clearly has the power and ultimate speed advantage but I would suggest the GT3 is marginally quicker than the 458 Italia on a typical rapid B road blast. Which is where both cars are mainly used because in most A road situations you are into licence loosing speeds way to quickly for comfort.
As for track use it's clearly the GT3.
Seem to recollect Steve Sutcliffe tested the 458 against against the gen 1 GT3 and concluded the GT3 had the edge overall.
Porsche911R said:
RSVP911 said:
All I’m saying is, if you think second gear in a Spyder is too fast - then the GT3 would be the same plus and you rave about that car - so I’m afraid you aren’t making sense.
Too fast for the car...….If you drove them you would understand what I mean ,
That's why I joke and wonder if people drive them, how many miles has your 997.2 GT3 done again :-)
I drive them all the time thanks very much - oh and btw it’s a 997.2 RS
I accept i would feel different had i gone for a Manual instead of PDK in terms of involvement..The 458 requires more finesse in both steering and throttle as Isaldiri quite rightly points out.When i first drove it if felt both controls were too hyper active however as i familiarised it became more second nature.
Some driving instructors i've had sat with me on track have unilaterally commented that i have a particularly smooth and economical controls input style which makes me well suited to my 458's hyper reactive controls.FWIW they never said that i was a naturally gifted driver just a smooth economical laid back type..
My PDK GT3 just turns me into a hooligan and eggs me on which i'm not comfortable with, as i like to drive responsibly on public roads..Another surprise is how much smoother the 458 copes with rough roads compared tp any Porsche i've owned .
Some driving instructors i've had sat with me on track have unilaterally commented that i have a particularly smooth and economical controls input style which makes me well suited to my 458's hyper reactive controls.FWIW they never said that i was a naturally gifted driver just a smooth economical laid back type..
My PDK GT3 just turns me into a hooligan and eggs me on which i'm not comfortable with, as i like to drive responsibly on public roads..Another surprise is how much smoother the 458 copes with rough roads compared tp any Porsche i've owned .
Taffy66 said:
Its not until i drove my 458 did the over high gearing on all Porsches become so obvious..Ironically i don't find it as frustrating in the Spyder as its in the GT3 as i just use it for top down cruising..My PDK 991.2GT3 has a 4.5% lower final drive ratio compared to the Manual version which makes a small difference.
The 458 has perfect sensible gearing for all scenarios.Funny thing is that even in Porsches top gear could do with being a little higher for quiet motorway cruising, its just gears 2 and 3 which are overly high and makes the Manual box less useable than it could be with these two gears being at least 10% lower.
Not as much an issue on my PDK GT3, just it wants to be driven at warp speed to get into its natural rhythm..Probably an unavoidable side effect from chasing ever faster Ring times during development.
Some opinions discussed, may not being accounting for ‘preferred driving style.’ Off track, we can only generally drive fast on B roads - where bends typically come up quickly. The faster the car, the quicker they come up... My preferred style is to be ‘fast and smooth.’ I do not enjoy becoming too busy/abrupt with the pedals. In a manual, you have more to manage than an auto. So when I push my manual GT3, I am on and off the power/brakes a fair bit more than my Spyder, where I gain slightly more time to maintain a smooth flow. The Spyder’s long gearing probably aids this process. So I think the ease of achieving a fast driving flow is one reason I can climb out feeling more rewarded. Then factor in an ideal B road suspension - the racket it makes etc, it starts to add up. Yes I love my GT3 - for all kinds of reasons - but 375 horses are plenty for the road. ...And if offered a 718 Spyder (unlikely) will it be a better B road car than this...The 458 has perfect sensible gearing for all scenarios.Funny thing is that even in Porsches top gear could do with being a little higher for quiet motorway cruising, its just gears 2 and 3 which are overly high and makes the Manual box less useable than it could be with these two gears being at least 10% lower.
Not as much an issue on my PDK GT3, just it wants to be driven at warp speed to get into its natural rhythm..Probably an unavoidable side effect from chasing ever faster Ring times during development.
Taffy66 said:
I accept i would feel different had i gone for a Manual instead of PDK in terms of involvement..The 458 requires more finesse in both steering and throttle as Isaldiri quite rightly points out.When i first drove it if felt both controls were too hyper active however as i familiarised it became more second nature.
Some driving instructors i've had sat with me on track have unilaterally commented that i have a particularly smooth and economical controls input style which makes me well suited to my 458's hyper reactive controls.FWIW they never said that i was a naturally gifted driver just a smooth economical laid back type..
My PDK GT3 just turns me into a hooligan and eggs me on which i'm not comfortable with, as i like to drive responsibly on public roads..Another surprise is how much smoother the 458 copes with rough roads compared tp any Porsche i've owned .
For me I think you have a great collection.Some driving instructors i've had sat with me on track have unilaterally commented that i have a particularly smooth and economical controls input style which makes me well suited to my 458's hyper reactive controls.FWIW they never said that i was a naturally gifted driver just a smooth economical laid back type..
My PDK GT3 just turns me into a hooligan and eggs me on which i'm not comfortable with, as i like to drive responsibly on public roads..Another surprise is how much smoother the 458 copes with rough roads compared tp any Porsche i've owned .
My ideal collection of sports cars based on expanding what I have would be:
964
458 Spider
981 Spyder
Elise or Exige of some kind
I think the only do it all car in the above is the 981 spyder. The small compromises are not as great as living with a Ferrari, great as they are.
I agree about Ferrari gearing. I have not tried a 458 but in my 360 spider manual the gearing is a lot of fun, and it’s enough power for the road. Even my lowly 964 is to be honest.
I like my 360 but it’s a bit washy/understeery, though perhaps that can be dialled out. Just doesn’t inspire confidence somehow (and I’ve tried others and it was the same), but it’s a wonderful car on an open road. Oddly GT like on a long trip but with a buzzy engine that revs to 8.5k.
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