Cayman GTS

[TDT]

Twinfan said:

I've not tried one

Not picking a fight D, but it’s difficult to opine, if one is not pushing the boundaries of OE or satisfied enough to not want to explore beyond the limits.
But one cannot say it’s not worth it, without trying.

Having tried it... if you drive even moderately spiritedly on the road and you want better body control, but not corrupted ride, DSC is a good option.

[Twinfan]

Fair enough

Personally I'm not pushing any of the limits of my Cayman GTS on the road, which let's face it is more than high enough for road use unless you have a death or prison wish.

YMMV of course!

[TDT]

bcr5784 said:

TDT said:

It’s just my opinion. The luggage capacity is a factor which would make it just a pure fun car for me, for a single minded drive or for just me.
The little bit extra in refinement and luggage space means that the Cayster can do a bit more of the grand touring thing.
In this regard, the A110 is little bit like an ElIse imo… ergo fun toy imo.

As we’ve discussed Badge does come into it also, so brand equity commands the premium, despite the fact the products might stack up differently on paper… but that’s marketing for you.

i can only assume you haven't driven one - the Alpine is noticeably MORE refined and quieter than a 981 or 718. It rides better and the standard seats are more comfortable on long journeys. It's further from an Elise than the Cayman is in most respects as a grand tourer - I have owned all 3. It is the refinement on long journeys (especially motorways) which surprises most new Alpine owners - you can actually listen to music at high speed - something I wouldn't do in a Cayman on a British motorway.

Agreed the Cayman is exceptional in terms of luggage space - but do 2 of you actually need more luggage space than an Escort? You can get the equivalent of 4 aircraft carry on bags in the Alpine boots and all but the exceptionally tall will get a lot more inside

People who haven't driven the Alpine seem to assume because it's so light it must be raw - nothing could be further from the truth.

I'm well aware that some set great store by badges, and will pay a premuim for them, some of us won't.

Edited by bcr5784 on Monday 26th August 16:30

I haven’t driven an A110 yet, would very much love to though as they look fun so it’s on the list of cars to try.
My points about luggage and badge/brand equity remain though as you have agreed but don’t necessarily personally subscribe to.
Ref refinement I can imagine that actually in terms of ride and control, the A110 will be better than a Cayman, and there’s no denying that you can spec a Cayman much more luxuriously than an Alpine, therefore perceived luxury and refinement in the cayster will be higher through sheer palette of materials and options.

Edited by TDT on Monday 26th August 17:55

[bcr5784]

TDT said:

Ref refinement I can imagine that actually in terms of ride and control, the A110 will be better than a Cayman, and there’s no denying that you can spec a Cayman much more luxuriously than an Alpine, therefore perceived luxury and refinement in the cayster will be higher through sheer palette of materials and options.

Agreed that you CAN spec a Cayman up with PERCEIVED luxury - but that won't make it as refined or quiet as the A110 - and it will make it much more expensive - which undermines any argument about value for money. You'll have to spend a lot to get seats as comfortable or attractive as the Alpines - more to get as much leather or (real) carbon fibre triim as the Alpine has as standard. Then there's keyless entry, cruise control, LED lights, automatic wipers, e-diff .. Almost invariably when Porsche put up a press car for comparison with the Alpine it is significantly more expensive - sometimes as much £20k more.

A basic 718, though now with quite a bit more kit than the 981, is still pretty basic.

But given that you are open to the idea, you should try one. I think you may find your preconceptions are wide of the mark - certainly if you think it is anything like an Elise in terms of trim, refinement or practicality you are in for a shock, I suspect that, at least in part, you (and others) perceive it to be expensive because you have a false view of its trim level and equipment - or because you don't value the construction techniques that make it so light - and cost so much.

Don't get me wrong the BIG reason to buy an Alpine is because it is so much fun on ordinary roads at ordinary speeds - but don't believe that the downside is that it is impractical or raw - it's neither.

Edited by bcr5784 on Monday 26th August 17:34

Edited by bcr5784 on Monday 26th August 19:14

Edited by bcr5784 on Monday 26th August 19:19

[Prestonese]

jimbo761 said:

I admire your enthusiasm for the Alpine BCR but let’s face it I (and probably a lot of other Porsche buyers) wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole.

Why? (1) Depreciation. And (2) Depreciation, (3) Depreciation and Depreciation... If you have money to burn that’s great but there’s no way anyone with any financial sense is going to believe a paid for review by Auto Express about residuals, these things will sink faster than a rock thrown off the Empire State.

(4) no offence and subjective but it’s as ugly as fk.

(5) It’s French, not a locate remembered for good cars or strong residuals.

(6) (Again to underline the point) it is not a good looking car;

(7) It’s £50 fking K. It is insane to think anyone other than the terminally crazy or PCP’d to the max would burn that amount of cash. £35k maybe, so limit the production run to however many they can sell an order for with the buzz of an initial release.

Again I admire your enthusiasm BCR but really, just go back to the Renault Clio forums and maybe somebody will bite .

Purely Imo etc etc...

Besides money and looks, what else do you look for in a car?

It remains to be seen whether the Alpine holds value as badly as you say. If you have tried trading in your 718, you might be surprised how much depreciation it has suffered. If you like money, cars are a terrible asset class save for a few special ones. As for looks, that's your opinion but plenty of the reviewers disagree with you. I don't think most Caymans are particularly special looking either- mostly they are fairly anodyne. The 981 was probably the best (a 981 GTS with X73 looks fantastic in my view) and then certain 987s (for instance, the R). I can't recall the 718 being widely described as handsome by the press and they look a bit fussy to me.

As for the French dig, if you have bothered to look, there have been plenty of good cars made in France. Many of them more reliable than a Porsche as well. And Renault 5 Turbos are worth a few bob these days. That's a fact and not just an opinion.

Edited by Prestonese on Monday 26th August 22:23

Edited by Prestonese on Monday 26th August 22:24

[bcr5784]

jimbo761 said:

I admire your enthusiasm for the Alpine BCR but let’s face it I (and probably a lot of other Porsche buyers) wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole.

Why? (1) Depreciation. And (2) Depreciation, (3) Depreciation and Depreciation... If you have money to burn that’s great but there’s no way anyone with any financial sense is going to believe a paid for review by Auto Express about residuals, these things will sink faster than a rock thrown off the Empire State.

(4) no offence and subjective but it’s as ugly as fk.

(5) It’s French, not a locate remembered for good cars or strong residuals.

(6) (Again to underline the point) it is not a good looking car;

(7) It’s £50 fking K. It is insane to think anyone other than the terminally crazy or PCP’d to the max would burn that amount of cash. £35k maybe, so limit the production run to however many they can sell an order for with the buzz of an initial release.

Again I admire your enthusiasm BCR but really, just go back to the Renault Clio forums and maybe somebody will bite .

Purely Imo etc etc...

Difficult to argue with blind prejudice. As Prestonese says the vast majority regard it as a very pretty car. Depreciation - I suggest you look at the second-hand market - you will find it very difficult to buy one below the new list price and many have been sold at a premium. And as for being mad to pay £50k for one - you'll find at least 3 Porsche owners on this thread alone who have switched from a 981. Not to mention the other insane people like testers Dan Prosser, Chris Harris and James May who have spent THEIR OWN money on one. Then there's that idiot Gordon Murray. Then again there are petrol heads Nick Mason and Rowan Atkinson who clearly have money burning a hole in their pocket - but surely they could afford to buy something better!.

The difference between you and them and all the ex and current Porsche owners who have bought one? They've actually driven the car. (Can you believe it!)

The only reason why some Porsche owners wouldn't touch it with a barge pole is badge snobbery.

Edited by bcr5784 on Tuesday 27th August 08:58

Edited by bcr5784 on Tuesday 27th August 09:33

[JayK12]

TDT said:

bcr5784 said:

TDT said:

It’s just my opinion. The luggage capacity is a factor which would make it just a pure fun car for me, for a single minded drive or for just me.
The little bit extra in refinement and luggage space means that the Cayster can do a bit more of the grand touring thing.
In this regard, the A110 is little bit like an ElIse imo… ergo fun toy imo.

As we’ve discussed Badge does come into it also, so brand equity commands the premium, despite the fact the products might stack up differently on paper… but that’s marketing for you.

i can only assume you haven't driven one - the Alpine is noticeably MORE refined and quieter than a 981 or 718. It rides better and the standard seats are more comfortable on long journeys. It's further from an Elise than the Cayman is in most respects as a grand tourer - I have owned all 3. It is the refinement on long journeys (especially motorways) which surprises most new Alpine owners - you can actually listen to music at high speed - something I wouldn't do in a Cayman on a British motorway.

Agreed the Cayman is exceptional in terms of luggage space - but do 2 of you actually need more luggage space than an Escort? You can get the equivalent of 4 aircraft carry on bags in the Alpine boots and all but the exceptionally tall will get a lot more inside

People who haven't driven the Alpine seem to assume because it's so light it must be raw - nothing could be further from the truth.

I'm well aware that some set great store by badges, and will pay a premuim for them, some of us won't.

Edited by bcr5784 on Monday 26th August 16:30

I haven’t driven an A110 yet, would very much love to though as they look fun so it’s on the list of cars to try.
My points about luggage and badge/brand equity remain though as you have agreed but don’t necessarily personally subscribe to.
Ref refinement I can imagine that actually in terms of ride and control, the A110 will be better than a Cayman, and there’s no denying that you can spec a Cayman much more luxuriously than an Alpine, therefore perceived luxury and refinement in the cayster will be higher through sheer palette of materials and options.

Edited by TDT on Monday 26th August 17:55

I will bh slap you if you get an A110 TDT....really hard!!

[bcr5784]

JayK12 said:

I will bh slap you if you get an A110 TDT....really hard!!

Must be a case for the thought police, surely.

[Porsche911R]

bcr5784 said:

The only reason why some Porsche owners wouldn't touch it with a barge pole is badge snobbery.

I buy any badge, for me it's an automatic, and that's a deal breaker simple as that.

[Prestonese]

Porsche911R said:

I buy any badge, for me it's an automatic, and that's a deal breaker simple as that.

Fair enough. At least you gave a reason without resorting to tourettes!

[bcr5784]

Porsche911R said:

I buy any badge, for me it's an automatic, and that's a deal breaker simple as that.

I did use the word "some" - there is certainly plenty of badge snobbery alive and well on this forum.

[TDT]

JayK12 said:

TDT said:

bcr5784 said:

TDT said:

It’s just my opinion. The luggage capacity is a factor which would make it just a pure fun car for me, for a single minded drive or for just me.
The little bit extra in refinement and luggage space means that the Cayster can do a bit more of the grand touring thing.
In this regard, the A110 is little bit like an ElIse imo… ergo fun toy imo.

As we’ve discussed Badge does come into it also, so brand equity commands the premium, despite the fact the products might stack up differently on paper… but that’s marketing for you.

i can only assume you haven't driven one - the Alpine is noticeably MORE refined and quieter than a 981 or 718. It rides better and the standard seats are more comfortable on long journeys. It's further from an Elise than the Cayman is in most respects as a grand tourer - I have owned all 3. It is the refinement on long journeys (especially motorways) which surprises most new Alpine owners - you can actually listen to music at high speed - something I wouldn't do in a Cayman on a British motorway.

Agreed the Cayman is exceptional in terms of luggage space - but do 2 of you actually need more luggage space than an Escort? You can get the equivalent of 4 aircraft carry on bags in the Alpine boots and all but the exceptionally tall will get a lot more inside

People who haven't driven the Alpine seem to assume because it's so light it must be raw - nothing could be further from the truth.

I'm well aware that some set great store by badges, and will pay a premuim for them, some of us won't.

Edited by bcr5784 on Monday 26th August 16:30

I haven’t driven an A110 yet, would very much love to though as they look fun so it’s on the list of cars to try.
My points about luggage and badge/brand equity remain though as you have agreed but don’t necessarily personally subscribe to.
Ref refinement I can imagine that actually in terms of ride and control, the A110 will be better than a Cayman, and there’s no denying that you can spec a Cayman much more luxuriously than an Alpine, therefore perceived luxury and refinement in the cayster will be higher through sheer palette of materials and options.

Edited by TDT on Monday 26th August 17:55

I will bh slap you if you get an A110 TDT....really hard!!

Lol... just an extended test drive.

[JayK12]

TDT said:

JayK12 said:

TDT said:

bcr5784 said:

TDT said:

It’s just my opinion. The luggage capacity is a factor which would make it just a pure fun car for me, for a single minded drive or for just me.
The little bit extra in refinement and luggage space means that the Cayster can do a bit more of the grand touring thing.
In this regard, the A110 is little bit like an ElIse imo… ergo fun toy imo.

As we’ve discussed Badge does come into it also, so brand equity commands the premium, despite the fact the products might stack up differently on paper… but that’s marketing for you.

i can only assume you haven't driven one - the Alpine is noticeably MORE refined and quieter than a 981 or 718. It rides better and the standard seats are more comfortable on long journeys. It's further from an Elise than the Cayman is in most respects as a grand tourer - I have owned all 3. It is the refinement on long journeys (especially motorways) which surprises most new Alpine owners - you can actually listen to music at high speed - something I wouldn't do in a Cayman on a British motorway.

Agreed the Cayman is exceptional in terms of luggage space - but do 2 of you actually need more luggage space than an Escort? You can get the equivalent of 4 aircraft carry on bags in the Alpine boots and all but the exceptionally tall will get a lot more inside

People who haven't driven the Alpine seem to assume because it's so light it must be raw - nothing could be further from the truth.

I'm well aware that some set great store by badges, and will pay a premuim for them, some of us won't.

Edited by bcr5784 on Monday 26th August 16:30

I haven’t driven an A110 yet, would very much love to though as they look fun so it’s on the list of cars to try.
My points about luggage and badge/brand equity remain though as you have agreed but don’t necessarily personally subscribe to.
Ref refinement I can imagine that actually in terms of ride and control, the A110 will be better than a Cayman, and there’s no denying that you can spec a Cayman much more luxuriously than an Alpine, therefore perceived luxury and refinement in the cayster will be higher through sheer palette of materials and options.

Edited by TDT on Monday 26th August 17:55

I will bh slap you if you get an A110 TDT....really hard!!

Lol... just an extended test drive.

OK, just a back hander then mate lol

[Trgasy]

thanks for your insights guys...
alpine is really a great car, nimble and agile. it is a great car esp on b road and very capable on track. The only downside is its gearbox, i wish it were manual. but it would have been heavier and long geared like most manual cars nowadays.
i found it more fun to drive than the exige 410 sport.
coming back to switching my gts to a 718 spyder, both are long geared. i am very surprised no EU company has worked on shortening ratios, the gearbox is 8y old now.

[bcr5784]

Trgasy said:

thanks for your insights guys...
alpine is really a great car, nimble and agile. it is a great car esp on b road and very capable on track. The only downside is its gearbox, i wish it were manual. but it would have been heavier and long geared like most manual cars nowadays.
i found it more fun to drive than the exige 410 sport.
coming back to switching my gts to a 718 spyder, both are long geared. i am very surprised no EU company has worked on shortening ratios, the gearbox is 8y old now.

Interesting comment re Exige. I personally found the Elise Sport 220 more fun than the Alpine down a country B road - in part because of the steering, in part because the damping is just a bit better judged and in part because it is narrower. Of course the Alpine is a vastly more useable daily driver - and still high on the fun stakes.

Edited by bcr5784 on Thursday 29th August 08:39

[Fizzbomb]

I finally bought my 100th and 101st 981 Caymans yesterday after a drought of over a year. Both are GT4 versions, I'm after 2 more if they exist in Mint green and Riviera blue. Finally, I am acquiring a CGTS for my daily driver.

[DJMC]

Fizzbomb said:

I finally bought my 100th and 101st 981 Caymans yesterday after a drought of over a year. Both are GT4 versions, I'm after 2 more if they exist in Mint green and Riviera blue. Finally, I am acquiring a CGTS for my daily driver.

Have you kept all the other 99 Caymans?

[Fizzbomb]

DJMC said:

Have you kept all the other 99 Caymans?

No, absolutely not, but at the height of all this madness, I did have 7 at the same time.

[dreamcar]

Goofnik said:

It's a Porsche. I hope I don't get bored of it like an econobox.

I’m sure you won’t! I’m as thrilled with my Boxster GTS today as I was four and a half years ago when I collected it new!

[Trgasy]

question for 981 manual guys: has anyone shortened their gearing through RPM? is it reliable/enjoyable?