Chris Harris GT4 review
Discussion
PorscheGT4 said:
All valid points though, and I only quoting what people say here .
most DO say, it allows them to be able to steer the car and hit the apex ! (that's NOT me saying it, but I see that time and time again by OWNERS" which does imply in a manual, they could not get round a bend very well before !
No they don't! most DO say, it allows them to be able to steer the car and hit the apex ! (that's NOT me saying it, but I see that time and time again by OWNERS" which does imply in a manual, they could not get round a bend very well before !
PorscheGT4 said:
As for the "GT3 does not count" in any automatic threads seems daft, it is what it is, an automatic, if one likes it because it aids faster lap times then one buys one.
If you want move interaction and still want a GT3 one buys a 997.2 RS, you can swap between the 2 these days they are the same price.
It did not float my boat, I could have had a GT3, was offered one 3 times at list price, I just did not fancy an automatic how ever good it was.
I think it looks great, it's amazingly fast, the PDK-S is the best yet, high resale investment, but there has to be a want to own one which for me was lacking.
I could have kept my GT3 for an investment and made 30k on it very fast, but cars to me are not investments, if I don't want to drive it then it gets sold on.
If people love driving 991 GT3 that's great if people love driving the new manual GT4 that's great, if people can own both that's lucky and great.
seems the market is big for both as the GT3 and the GT4 both sold out in the UK.
and last is NOT "but totally irrelevant for this discussion." daft on a GT4 thread which is manual only car how PDK can even be talked about ?
You miss the point - presumably deliberately.If you want move interaction and still want a GT3 one buys a 997.2 RS, you can swap between the 2 these days they are the same price.
It did not float my boat, I could have had a GT3, was offered one 3 times at list price, I just did not fancy an automatic how ever good it was.
I think it looks great, it's amazingly fast, the PDK-S is the best yet, high resale investment, but there has to be a want to own one which for me was lacking.
I could have kept my GT3 for an investment and made 30k on it very fast, but cars to me are not investments, if I don't want to drive it then it gets sold on.
If people love driving 991 GT3 that's great if people love driving the new manual GT4 that's great, if people can own both that's lucky and great.
seems the market is big for both as the GT3 and the GT4 both sold out in the UK.
and last is NOT "but totally irrelevant for this discussion." daft on a GT4 thread which is manual only car how PDK can even be talked about ?
You honestly think that people bought the 991 GT3 because they were too scared to drive a manual?
PorscheGT4 said:
Talking manual cars.
I see a few GT3 owners comment on gt4 gearing and also a lot of people comment and argue with me when I bring it up on a 996 or 997 GT3 , but now state it is too long on the GT4 !
At least I am consistent
and as Harris says the large torque does not make it an issue the only issue seems you don't change gear as much.
Yes I think they are all daft doing 80mph plus in 2nd gear but at least I have always said that.
Had a drive in a manual Cayman GTS yesterday on a decent B road, really enjoyed it and never felt the gearing was too long at all ?? I know in theory it probably is, but for me it seemed totally fine. If the GT4 gearing is the same it certainly won't be putting me off.I see a few GT3 owners comment on gt4 gearing and also a lot of people comment and argue with me when I bring it up on a 996 or 997 GT3 , but now state it is too long on the GT4 !
At least I am consistent
and as Harris says the large torque does not make it an issue the only issue seems you don't change gear as much.
Yes I think they are all daft doing 80mph plus in 2nd gear but at least I have always said that.
Edited by PorscheGT4 on Tuesday 10th March 09:07
As this is a Chris Harris thread, coincidentally that reminds me it was the monkey who specifically said the PDK S box in the GT3 was superior to that in the 458 Speciale. Could hardly be the case if it was standard PDK.
And which gearbox has Porsche seen fit to grace the 991 GT3 RS?.......oh yes.....the PDK S!
Praise indeed.
Back on the GT4, due to innapropriate gearing still hoping for a PDK on the second run.....although probably unlikely.....
And which gearbox has Porsche seen fit to grace the 991 GT3 RS?.......oh yes.....the PDK S!
Praise indeed.
Back on the GT4, due to innapropriate gearing still hoping for a PDK on the second run.....although probably unlikely.....
wevster said:
You guys make me laugh, you take everything Chris Harris says a gospel. He goes to the airport in a car lent by Porsche, gets flown expenses free to Portugal and rags their new car around that track so that he can make a video/write reviews of the car to earn cash. do you think he is going to slag the car off? He also has unprecedented access to a lot of Porsche cars is he going to risk his earning potential?
Even if it's a dog Chris isn't going to tell you.
The guy may as well be working for Porsche...
This is actually a really offensive charge to throw at someone. I'm not a fan of current established model in automotive journalism of accepting junkets (and write for an outlet that doesn't allow me to accept them, but we're in the minority). But it doesn't make a difference if Porsche pay to fly a journalist somewhere or their publication pays; in neither case are they out of pocket, and they still get to drive the cars.Even if it's a dog Chris isn't going to tell you.
The guy may as well be working for Porsche...
As cmoose points out, there are other problems with destination car launches. You don't get to spend long enough with the cars to form a real verdict and the process is obviously controlled by the car company.
av185 said:
Back on the GT4, due to innapropriate gearing still hoping for a PDK on the second run.....although probably unlikely.....
FWIW the report http://www.9tro.com/features/new-cars/porsche-caym... rather implies not, though the wording is rather vague, saying they would offer both boxes "next time around" whatever that might mean. It could mean the next production run of the GT4, but it's a funny way of putting it if they did.I have always said it is largely impossible to form a valid opinion on a car for the average punter from merely driving it for hour on the road or ragging round a track as most of the journos do.
Maybe an extreme example, an Aventador may be a laugh a minute driving to the pub on a nice Sunday afternoon....but living with one on a day to day basis would be no joke.
Maybe an extreme example, an Aventador may be a laugh a minute driving to the pub on a nice Sunday afternoon....but living with one on a day to day basis would be no joke.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
There are two approaches to this debate which I dismiss/don't agree with.One is that of PorscheGT4, which is pure bulls
t from start to finish...and the other is the point you make here, cmoose. You are NOT in full control of changing gear in manual boxes. The mechanism is doing that for you, in the form of syncromesh. The only way you can be in control of the entire process is to drive a crash 'box.
You can tell yourself you're in full control if you like, and you can rev match til the cows come home but you never know if you've got it exactly right or not because you can't prevent the syncromesh from doing it's job and masking your input.
heebeegeetee said:
syncromesh.
That's getting into the semantics though - it helps with engaging the gear teeth rather than controlling the changing of gears. Given synchromesh has been an integral part of manual gearboxes for least, what, 60 years(?), I don't think it is worth mentioning. Especialy as you can't buy a vaguely modern road car without it! Wanting to ditch synchromesh is more extreme than wanting to avoid stuff like power steering, brake servos, clutch delay valves, electronic throttles, programmable fuel/spark management....
I guess there are some people who love vintage cars for that sort of reason though - controlling ignition advance on the move, driving without synchromesh etc. I guess they are at the opposite end of the spectrum to people who prefer PDKs because manuals get in the way of enjoying driving.
braddo said:
That's getting into the semantics though - it helps with engaging the gear teeth rather than controlling the changing of gears. Given synchromesh has been an integral part of manual gearboxes for least, what, 60 years(?), I don't think it is worth mentioning. Especialy as you can't buy a vaguely modern road car without it!
Wanting to ditch synchromesh is more extreme than wanting to avoid stuff like power steering, brake servos, clutch delay valves, electronic throttles, programmable fuel/spark management....
I guess there are some people who love vintage cars for that sort of reason though - controlling ignition advance on the move, driving without synchromesh etc. I guess they are at the opposite end of the spectrum to people who prefer PDKs because manuals get in the way of enjoying driving.
Has anyone suggested this to be the case?Wanting to ditch synchromesh is more extreme than wanting to avoid stuff like power steering, brake servos, clutch delay valves, electronic throttles, programmable fuel/spark management....
I guess there are some people who love vintage cars for that sort of reason though - controlling ignition advance on the move, driving without synchromesh etc. I guess they are at the opposite end of the spectrum to people who prefer PDKs because manuals get in the way of enjoying driving.
braddo said:
That's getting into the semantics though - it helps with engaging the gear teeth rather than controlling the changing of gears. Given synchromesh has been an integral part of manual gearboxes for least, what, 60 years(?), I don't think it is worth mentioning. Especialy as you can't buy a vaguely modern road car without it!
Wanting to ditch synchromesh is more extreme than wanting to avoid stuff like power steering, brake servos, clutch delay valves, electronic throttles, programmable fuel/spark management....
I guess there are some people who love vintage cars for that sort of reason though - controlling ignition advance on the move, driving without synchromesh etc. I guess they are at the opposite end of the spectrum to people who prefer PDKs because manuals get in the way of enjoying driving.
The point is that the existence of synchro can not be denied or dismissed, and the synchro takes just about all of the skill out of changing gear imo.Wanting to ditch synchromesh is more extreme than wanting to avoid stuff like power steering, brake servos, clutch delay valves, electronic throttles, programmable fuel/spark management....
I guess there are some people who love vintage cars for that sort of reason though - controlling ignition advance on the move, driving without synchromesh etc. I guess they are at the opposite end of the spectrum to people who prefer PDKs because manuals get in the way of enjoying driving.
sidicks said:
braddo said:
That's getting into the semantics though - it helps with engaging the gear teeth rather than controlling the changing of gears. Given synchromesh has been an integral part of manual gearboxes for least, what, 60 years(?), I don't think it is worth mentioning. Especialy as you can't buy a vaguely modern road car without it!
Wanting to ditch synchromesh is more extreme than wanting to avoid stuff like power steering, brake servos, clutch delay valves, electronic throttles, programmable fuel/spark management....
I guess there are some people who love vintage cars for that sort of reason though - controlling ignition advance on the move, driving without synchromesh etc. I guess they are at the opposite end of the spectrum to people who prefer PDKs because manuals get in the way of enjoying driving.
Has anyone suggested this to be the case?Wanting to ditch synchromesh is more extreme than wanting to avoid stuff like power steering, brake servos, clutch delay valves, electronic throttles, programmable fuel/spark management....
I guess there are some people who love vintage cars for that sort of reason though - controlling ignition advance on the move, driving without synchromesh etc. I guess they are at the opposite end of the spectrum to people who prefer PDKs because manuals get in the way of enjoying driving.
And I tell you (solely for the benefit of anyone who may not know
) the machines that some of the VSCC lot drive make the rest of us look like a complete bunch of poofs. The idea that the ownership of a modern car automatically determines us as driving gods is a total bks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfYbH7926gksidicks said:
braddo said:
I guess they are at the opposite end of the spectrum to people who prefer PDKs because manuals get in the way of enjoying driving.
Has anyone suggested this to be the case?There is no wrong preference. But what's important is that there be choice. Hence, it is excellent that the GT4 is manual-only.
koorby said:
For all those who prefer manuals and say they feel more "connected" to the car - I take the exact opposite view; with a PDK I keep both my hands on the steering wheel where they belong, my left leg is relaxed and I'm much more focused on steering the car to place the nose exactly where I want on the apex etc. I can still use throttle control and ultimately it's a much safer way to travel quickly through twisty hilly roads, which I assume is why most people buy these cars.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Unfortunately, there seems to be a hint of 'manuals are for real drivers' mentality on here recently (maybe because Chris Harris says so, so it must be true), so anyone stepping up and actually saying they prefer a PDK or similar paddle shift system would end up quietly ridiculed for not being a real manI think the proof is in the numbers that some other manufacturers of (italian) sports cars offered up both options, and the actual manual orders were so small that they stopped offering them at all
If the 991GT3 had been manual or PDK, I'm sure the numbers of manual cars would've been similarly small
In reality, everyone loves to proclaim themselves as a driving god, but in actual fact, many of us (myself included) are actually just quite average and would benefit from having both hands on the wheel in most hard driving situations
I missed the boat with GT3's and then again with the GT4, so I'll probably be going V10+ R8 as my next weekend car. The choice is taken away from me there on the 15 model, but having driven both manual and DSG current V10+ models, I'd go DSG every time
Had I been given the choice on my returned Gt4 deposit, then I would've gone PDK every time too, but I do applaud Porsche for making it a manual only car for no other reason than to stick out from the crowd and help imbed their 'drivers car brand' image
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