Running-in CGTS
Discussion
Nothing here to change my view that preventing excessive wear from very low rev operation will be very low down the list of priorities.
Anyone who doesn't think that these engines are labouring at 1000 revs under loads doesn't have a very good sense of hearing or any feel though their buttocks. The engine is unhappy at anything under 1500 (with any load).
Anyone who doesn't think that these engines are labouring at 1000 revs under loads doesn't have a very good sense of hearing or any feel though their buttocks. The engine is unhappy at anything under 1500 (with any load).
A slight digression - but does anyone have any tips on service intervals?
I had an oil change at 2k miles/4 months, after a run in and a few Sport+ ventures.
Now the car is a year old I'm wondering what to do - do I take it for another service at the year mark (will be just over now), or wait another year and stick to the 2 year first service interval? What's the general consensus from a cost/resale perspective?
I had an oil change at 2k miles/4 months, after a run in and a few Sport+ ventures.
Now the car is a year old I'm wondering what to do - do I take it for another service at the year mark (will be just over now), or wait another year and stick to the 2 year first service interval? What's the general consensus from a cost/resale perspective?
A lot of people reckon the 2 year service intervals are more about perceived cost of ownership than reflecting the most appropriate plan.
A yearly service is a bit pointless (given that minor services involve f@ck all anyway) but an oil and filters change might be sensible, especially if the car gets driven hard and/or in traffic a lot. An oil and filter change costs not much less than a minor service, so I may as we'll get that stamp I suppose (although it means nothing if you know what a minor involves).
A yearly service is a bit pointless (given that minor services involve f@ck all anyway) but an oil and filters change might be sensible, especially if the car gets driven hard and/or in traffic a lot. An oil and filter change costs not much less than a minor service, so I may as we'll get that stamp I suppose (although it means nothing if you know what a minor involves).
sfboy said:
A slight digression - but does anyone have any tips on service intervals?
I had an oil change at 2k miles/4 months, after a run in and a few Sport+ ventures.
Now the car is a year old I'm wondering what to do - do I take it for another service at the year mark (will be just over now), or wait another year and stick to the 2 year first service interval? What's the general consensus from a cost/resale perspective?
Provided you have it done at the required (2 year) interval I can't see it having any impact whatsoever on what a dealer might offer you. A private buyer might be impressed that you are a careful owner - but whether it's worth the 600 odd quid that an OPC will charge I very much doubt. Is it necessary - I doubt it unless the car is subject to particularly arduous (or little or no) use or highish miles (but I assume not or you wouldn't be asking the question).I had an oil change at 2k miles/4 months, after a run in and a few Sport+ ventures.
Now the car is a year old I'm wondering what to do - do I take it for another service at the year mark (will be just over now), or wait another year and stick to the 2 year first service interval? What's the general consensus from a cost/resale perspective?
engineermk said:
I work in car engine development, we test engines (without the car) in laboratories that can simulate a granny driving to the shops or a racing driver lapping the nurburgring and anything in between. Typically our clients (manufactures, not private individuals) are from the luxury/super car market.
It usually takes 40-50 hours to run an engine in. We run the engines over a wide range of speeds and loads, gently increasing them from 25-50% load to 100% load over the first 20 hours. Every 10 hours we run a power curve, its takes about 2hours to complete that! When two consecutive power curves match the engine is 'run-in'.
My basic advice to you has to be, drive the car to warm it up (don't sit on the drive way at idle) don't labour the engine or rev it to very high speeds in the first 10-20 hours. Give it the very occasional wide open throttle accel after 15 hours, but most of the time just drive it sensibly following the car in front. Basically; don't be a hooligan, be sensible, and your car will run in OK. If you choose PDK you can pretty much drive and forget (with the exception of using kick down) as the transmission ECU will make sure you neither labour or over rev the engine.
Manufacturing tolerances are so good now that the running in your Dad had to do on his 1978 Cortina is obsolete. Just keep an eye on the oil level (most cars do that for you these days) as it will use some in the first few thousand miles. The oil doesn't need changing at 2,500miles, it will easily cope with 20,000miles
Uh, no.It usually takes 40-50 hours to run an engine in. We run the engines over a wide range of speeds and loads, gently increasing them from 25-50% load to 100% load over the first 20 hours. Every 10 hours we run a power curve, its takes about 2hours to complete that! When two consecutive power curves match the engine is 'run-in'.
My basic advice to you has to be, drive the car to warm it up (don't sit on the drive way at idle) don't labour the engine or rev it to very high speeds in the first 10-20 hours. Give it the very occasional wide open throttle accel after 15 hours, but most of the time just drive it sensibly following the car in front. Basically; don't be a hooligan, be sensible, and your car will run in OK. If you choose PDK you can pretty much drive and forget (with the exception of using kick down) as the transmission ECU will make sure you neither labour or over rev the engine.
Manufacturing tolerances are so good now that the running in your Dad had to do on his 1978 Cortina is obsolete. Just keep an eye on the oil level (most cars do that for you these days) as it will use some in the first few thousand miles. The oil doesn't need changing at 2,500miles, it will easily cope with 20,000miles
I have no idea why anyone would chose to follow your "run in" advice which is contrary to that put forth by the factory.
BTW, tolerances are about the same now as they have been for years. It is not the tolerances that play a role in break in but the fact that new engines produce higher levels of friction which among other things produces heat.
Additionally, freshly machined/cast surfaces shed lots of material. One can run his hand over a freshly machined surface and it will come away with tiny metal particles visible on the skin.
These are shed during running in. At too high speeds/loads the particles can come away too fast and result in galling as the gaps between sliding/rotating bearing surfaces is very small. The idea is to over time let these particles be shed at a slower rate so they do not result in any galling.
Furthermore, the rings and cylinders must adapt -- wear in -- to one another and develop surfaces that promote adequate oil film retention for proper lubrication under all operating conditions.
This takes time.
And in the meantime high engine loads and high engine speeds are to be avoided.
While automakers guidelines allow for long interval oil changes, including the 1st one, my experience is that the initial factory fill oil becomes quite filthy with debris. The filter of course captures this but it can't capture the contamination that also comes from a new engine arising from the less than ideal ring/piston/cylinder sealing.
Unless forbidden by the owners manual/factory my advice is to change the oil early in a new engine. After starting and running a rebuilt engine I was taught to after say 30 minutes of running in to drain the oil and change the filter. Then with this fresh oil and filter to drive the car for 500 miles or so and then repeat the oil/filter service then fall into the regular oil/filter service schedule.
As I think I have mentioned before, I changed the oil in my 2008 Cayman S at 750 miles and the filter housing oil was filthy/loaded with particulate matter, mostly very fine aluminum, to the point the oil looked like metal flake paint. A second oil/filter service at almost 1500 miles found the particulate level in the oil filter oil very very light, to the point it would not photograph with my digital camera. At the end of "break in" (2000 miles) I had the oil/filter service done again but this time at the dealer and neither I or the tech bothered to capture the oil from the housing. The oil draining from the engine looked very good.
No way I'd want to run that initial factory fill oil for 20K miles.
My 2002 Boxster received an early oil/filter service -- at around 4K miles (prompted by an oil analysis that found 7% water contamination courtesy of the mid-western (USA) winter temps and the fact these engines are rather cold blooded, difficult to get fully up to temperature in cold weather) -- and 5K mile oil/filter services ever since and the engine now has over 291K miles and runs as good as it ever did. I might add that I followed the break in guidelines put forth by Porsche, too.
Rockster said:
Uh, no.
I have no idea why anyone would chose to follow your "run in" advice which is contrary to that put forth by the factory.
I agree, follow the Porsche run-in advice, but don't get too hung up on it... Most people's day-to-day driving is suitable for running in with out any special measures.I have no idea why anyone would chose to follow your "run in" advice which is contrary to that put forth by the factory.
Oil Changes - that's up to you if you want to carry out a post run in change.
Really? What has that got to do with it? I presume you are not saying that engines get assembled with these freshly machined components? The ones I build certainly don't!
Rockster said:
Additionally, freshly machined/cast surfaces shed lots of material. One can run his hand over a freshly machined surface and it will come away with tiny metal particles visible on the skin.
These are shed during running in.
These are shed during running in.
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