Possible 987 Cayman S purchase - advice and help please
Discussion
Hi all, I am looking at purchchasing my first Porsche. I gave done quite a bit of research in the past but there isn't a great deal of information on the Cayman, well specifically in the direction I'm looking, so hoping you guys could shed a bit of light...
Firstly, the car I'm looking at has PCCB. It's not an option I've had down as a must have but if they are fitted them I want to take advantage of. However, the costs are scaring me when its replacement time. What's the current state of play.... How !much are replacements (a lot of conflicting info)? Do they have to come from Porsche? What are the best iron alternatives and the costs? Is a refurb system available like the 997 etc?
Secondly, and I appreciate this is difficult but judging from the pictures, what state are the rotors? Are the wear indicators showing through in the areas where circles are appearing?
Thirdly, warranties, are they viable? Who is currently offering the best warrenty? Do they pay on any of the common problems?
Fourthly, The car in question is a 2008 gen1 car. It's on 52k and has full Porsche service history, is there anything I should be checking for or aware of prior to viewing?
Finally, What must be considered as must have options? I appreciate this is a preferance more than anything else but thought i would ask as this car is really well specced, has every option I'm looking for but if not, I would be interested to hear what is essential. Also what would you expect to get for a 25k budget?
Any help is appreciated!
Firstly, the car I'm looking at has PCCB. It's not an option I've had down as a must have but if they are fitted them I want to take advantage of. However, the costs are scaring me when its replacement time. What's the current state of play.... How !much are replacements (a lot of conflicting info)? Do they have to come from Porsche? What are the best iron alternatives and the costs? Is a refurb system available like the 997 etc?
Secondly, and I appreciate this is difficult but judging from the pictures, what state are the rotors? Are the wear indicators showing through in the areas where circles are appearing?
Thirdly, warranties, are they viable? Who is currently offering the best warrenty? Do they pay on any of the common problems?
Fourthly, The car in question is a 2008 gen1 car. It's on 52k and has full Porsche service history, is there anything I should be checking for or aware of prior to viewing?
Finally, What must be considered as must have options? I appreciate this is a preferance more than anything else but thought i would ask as this car is really well specced, has every option I'm looking for but if not, I would be interested to hear what is essential. Also what would you expect to get for a 25k budget?
Any help is appreciated!
Tubes89 said:
Hi all, I am looking at purchchasing my first Porsche. I gave done quite a bit of research in the past but there isn't a great deal of information on the Cayman, well specifically in the direction I'm looking, so hoping you guys could shed a bit of light...
Firstly, the car I'm looking at has PCCB. It's not an option I've had down as a must have but if they are fitted them I want to take advantage of. However, the costs are scaring me when its replacement time. What's the current state of play.... How !much are replacements (a lot of conflicting info)? Do they have to come from Porsche? What are the best iron alternatives and the costs? Is a refurb system available like the 997 etc?
Secondly, and I appreciate this is difficult but judging from the pictures, what state are the rotors? Are the wear indicators showing through in the areas where circles are appearing?
Thirdly, warranties, are they viable? Who is currently offering the best warrenty? Do they pay on any of the common problems?
Fourthly, The car in question is a 2008 gen1 car. It's on 52k and has full Porsche service history, is there anything I should be checking for or aware of prior to viewing?
Finally, What must be considered as must have options? I appreciate this is a preferance more than anything else but thought i would ask as this car is really well specced, has every option I'm looking for but if not, I would be interested to hear what is essential. Also what would you expect to get for a 25k budget?
Any help is appreciated!
Well, I'm sure I am in the minority but I'd have PCCB's on my "new" Cayman in a heartbeat. ('course I looked at a low miles used 2014, and 2 new 2015's, yesterday and all 3 had the iron brakes... Just my luck.)Firstly, the car I'm looking at has PCCB. It's not an option I've had down as a must have but if they are fitted them I want to take advantage of. However, the costs are scaring me when its replacement time. What's the current state of play.... How !much are replacements (a lot of conflicting info)? Do they have to come from Porsche? What are the best iron alternatives and the costs? Is a refurb system available like the 997 etc?
Secondly, and I appreciate this is difficult but judging from the pictures, what state are the rotors? Are the wear indicators showing through in the areas where circles are appearing?
Thirdly, warranties, are they viable? Who is currently offering the best warrenty? Do they pay on any of the common problems?
Fourthly, The car in question is a 2008 gen1 car. It's on 52k and has full Porsche service history, is there anything I should be checking for or aware of prior to viewing?
Finally, What must be considered as must have options? I appreciate this is a preferance more than anything else but thought i would ask as this car is really well specced, has every option I'm looking for but if not, I would be interested to hear what is essential. Also what would you expect to get for a 25k budget?
Any help is appreciated!
Total 911 ran an excellent 2 part, no make that 3 part article on PCCB's. If back issues are available highly recommended. (You can also buy the 1st 50 issues on CD and the last 3 issues contain the PCCB's article.)
The dots are the wear indicators. The smaller they get the more worn the rotors are. My info is rotor wear is not usually a problem. Pad wear is and if allowed to get too bad can take out the rotors.
Still you want to make sure all rotor surfaces outside and inside are in good condition. Check for chips on the rotor edges. If the lug bolt rods not used when the wheel is removed it can drop down and chip the rotor. Too big a chip can render the rotor unusable.
PCCB replacement costs are high. I can't quote any prices. Best I can offer is get a quote from your local dealer.
AFAIK there are no aftermarket rotors available. There may be aftermarket pads but I suspect are intended for track use.
You can get the PCCB's and pull them off and fit iron rotors and pads. Not sure of the cost and what's involved. A number of owners I suspect have done this.
As for the car it is just a used car so you want to be sure to give it a thorough used car check out.
My recommendation is to visit the car dead cold and with the A/C off as you go to start the engine be sure all warning lights come on and then go off as the engine starts and runs. Do not overlook this. My Boxster's airbag warning light is on and long story short I taped over this. The tape job is not very noticeable at all - not my intent but I got lucky -- and fooled me the first time I got in the car after the taping. The light was dark and I thought the light had turned itself off but then I remembered the tape job. Damn!
Start the engine and let it idle while you walk around the car checking body condition. Listen to the engine for any scary noises at any time after cold start and as it idles and warms up.
After some time then have the seller take you on a test drive that covers around 15 miles and allows the driver to demo the car as you intend to use it. Back at the starting point then you take the car out and drive the same route, drive the car the same way.
After the above if you still like the car give it a thorough used car check out. Assume nothing works until you verify it does. The check list the techs use to CPO a used car is a good starting point.
If after all of the above you *still* like the car and believe you can buy it for a reasonable sum of money then arrange for a PPI. Among other things this gets the car in the air where a close check for any leak sign can be made. At the same time the tech can check the brakes for any signs of distress and get a good feel for the remaining pad (and rotor) life and advise you.
Can't help you with warranties. I've only had the new car one and the CPO one.
For must have options, I recommend (and have on my 2003 Turbo) -- and some may be standard now -- cruise, OBC, rain sensing wipers, rear wiper, bi-xenon lights, heater/AC with auto climate control, auto dimming mirrors. The Turbo also a single CD player with a 6 disc magazine in the front trunk, but I never use the player. It also has power seats with memory but I really don't use this feature either. I'm the only driver and the seat adjustment seldom gets changed. Oh, no heated seats either. Some recommend these. I had an 08 Caymans S with heated seats but it came with them they were not something I felt I must have. It also had Sports Chrono which I am not sure what good this was. It made the car a bit harder to drive smoothly around town and on the highway.
Happy shopping.
You'll find PCCBs divides opinions like nothing other than PDK vs manual. The paradox is that on track (where it probably does have braking advantages) the costs of replacements is so high that many prefer steel, and on the road steel disks might have an advantage - except when it comes brake dust is concerned...
Rockster said:
Well, I'm sure I am in the minority but I'd have PCCB's on my "new" Cayman in a heartbeat. ('course I looked at a low miles used 2014, and 2 new 2015's, yesterday and all 3 had the iron brakes... Just my luck.)............
Happy shopping.
Thanks for your feedback, will check out the details on the features regarding the ceramics.Happy shopping.
bcr5784 said:
You'll find PCCBs divides opinions like nothing other than PDK vs manual. The paradox is that on track (where it probably does have braking advantages) the costs of replacements is so high that many prefer steel, and on the road steel disks might have an advantage - except when it comes brake dust is concerned...
Thanks, in an ideal world the PCCB's would be a massive selling point for me (saying that i would probably laid on a beach somewhere if it was an ideal world!). I would prefer to have a car with them, but only if they can be realistically be replaced. I do plan to track the car, 3 or 4 times a year so it will be a factor in speeding up the wear process. From the limited info available it still appears that steel/iron discs are still in excess of £800 a rotor... Ozzie Osmond said:
norscot said:
Think I'd use that budget to look for a gen 2 car without PCCB...
It's all just personal opinion but I have to say, I agree.Happy for any links to any you guys can find, as my results with the usual places; RSJ, Harbour cars, Trader, PH etc all seem unproductive.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Its comfortably south of £25k, that just happens to be my budget. In fairness, i would have agreed initially, but the market has dried up and demand is driving prices north, as above, when looking 18 months ago, the Cayman is the same price now as it was then. The car in question is 'fully loaded' and I am particular about spec as i know what i am looking for. This one in question has the following options:
PASM - Must have
Sports Chrono - Desirable
Sports Exhaust - Desirable
Cruise Control - Must have
Xenons - Desirable
PCM - Must have
Phone Connectivity - Must have
Carbon Buckets - Desirable (Sports seats were a must have)
Aero Pack
PCCB's
Turbo Wheels
6 CD Autochanger
all with a full Porsche service history.
You can swop out of your PCCB's for steel one piece discs and decent pads for less than £1K. I do around two or three trackdays a year in my 987.1 CS and apart from braided brake lines and Motul 600 fluid, the brakes are stock and give no cause for concern whatsoever.
Edited by Trev450 on Monday 27th July 16:44
My 10 cents - don't let the PCCBs put you off, they are an excellent option as long as you're not planning to track the car intensively and frequently. I have them on my GT3 and I can definitely feel the benefit in both retardation (no sniggering) and lightness. I was initially concerned at replacement cost, but you now have plenty of options in terms of OEM steel replacements OR you can have them refurbished to a higher than OEM standard by a company like SICOM relatively inexpensively:
http://www.carbonceramicbrake.com/porsche.html
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=150...
From what I can see on the above images, those look to be in fine fettle - the surface appears to be still shiny :-)
Must have options? Maybe PCM, sports exhaust and manual to be honest, but condition is far more important, particularly if the model you're looking at suffers from M96/97 weaknesses. Ask Cmoose he knows his Caymans!
http://www.carbonceramicbrake.com/porsche.html
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=150...
From what I can see on the above images, those look to be in fine fettle - the surface appears to be still shiny :-)
Must have options? Maybe PCM, sports exhaust and manual to be honest, but condition is far more important, particularly if the model you're looking at suffers from M96/97 weaknesses. Ask Cmoose he knows his Caymans!
I'm sure the standards are up to the job and I'm sure the PCCB's are even better. I only mention track days as the additional wear is a concern on the ceramics.
Where have you seen to replace rotors for, for that amount? All i can find is Brembo in the 350x34mm that come in at £3k by the time you factor pads which is more than I am willing or able to spend on a consumable part.
Where have you seen to replace rotors for, for that amount? All i can find is Brembo in the 350x34mm that come in at £3k by the time you factor pads which is more than I am willing or able to spend on a consumable part.
Fl0pp3r said:
My 10 cents - don't let the PCCBs put you off, they are an excellent option as long as you're not planning to track the car intensively and frequently. I have them on my GT3 and I can definitely feel the benefit in both retardation (no sniggering) and lightness. I was initially concerned at replacement cost, but you now have plenty of options in terms of OEM steel replacements OR you can have them refurbished to a higher than OEM standard by a company like SICOM relatively inexpensively:
http://www.carbonceramicbrake.com/porsche.html
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=150...
From what I can see on the above images, those look to be in fine fettle - the surface appears to be still shiny :-)
Must have options? Maybe PCM, sports exhaust and manual to be honest, but condition is far more important, particularly if the model you're looking at suffers from M96/97 weaknesses. Ask Cmoose he knows his Caymans!
Cheers. 1700 Euros per disc is still more than I am wanting (again, or able) to spend on a consumable such as rotors.http://www.carbonceramicbrake.com/porsche.html
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=150...
From what I can see on the above images, those look to be in fine fettle - the surface appears to be still shiny :-)
Must have options? Maybe PCM, sports exhaust and manual to be honest, but condition is far more important, particularly if the model you're looking at suffers from M96/97 weaknesses. Ask Cmoose he knows his Caymans!
The thing that sticks in my mind is that whilst its now a £25k~ car, its a £50/60k car that needs maintaining and to do this adequately would have to exclude PCCB's.
Glad you think the rotors are in good condition. I have asked the garage to get back to me ref the details on the brakes and if any of the history show replacements. If they are recent this maybe enough to sway in this direction.
I didn't list manual as the required spec as its sacrilege to have anything but in a Cayman!
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Thanks for your thoughts. Just in answer to your points..PCM is required as I'm led to believe that you cant have any phone function without it? A dated 4 letter/Number postcode Nav is not the priority when google maps is a lot better alternative.
As stated, I wasn't looking for PCCB's, just happened to come up and I'm a little concerned about subsequent costs, vs the additional performance if any.
FSH is a bonus, but, again any car can have issues regardless of age. Hence why i asked about warranties and if they are worthwhile for the Caymans and if so, who to look to in particular. What makes the Gen2 cars that much more reliable? What issues have been fixed?
If Gen2 is what most would consider a better buy, thats a direction i would be looking to take. It just seems there arent any Gen2 cars around, nevermind with some of the spec i am looking for. Which, i would be willing to compromise on for the right car/deal.
I would have the bores checked on the car, appreciate your thoughts on that. Do they suffer like the early 997's? Would a borescope be covered in a specialists pre-purchase inspection?
I've come here to ask for advice and fully prepared to listen to it. I appreciate all feedback. I've come from outside of the Porsche world and the sports car scene having just sold my Megane track toy and a 3 series oil burner to free up the funds to buy a new car. I haven't decided that a Cayman (or this car) is the direction I am definitely going to go in.
If anyone has any cars on their radar that are gen2 if this is the better car, sub £25k that are manual and come with PASM as a minimum then I am all ears.
Thanks again
Tubes89 said:
I'm sure the standards are up to the job and I'm sure the PCCB's are even better. I only mention track days as the additional wear is a concern on the ceramics.
Where have you seen to replace rotors for, for that amount? All i can find is Brembo in the 350x34mm that come in at £3k by the time you factor pads which is more than I am willing or able to spend on a consumable part.
Just one of many sources: http://www.porscheshop.co.uk/acatalog/porsche_caym...Where have you seen to replace rotors for, for that amount? All i can find is Brembo in the 350x34mm that come in at £3k by the time you factor pads which is more than I am willing or able to spend on a consumable part.
Trev450 said:
Tubes89 said:
I'm sure the standards are up to the job and I'm sure the PCCB's are even better. I only mention track days as the additional wear is a concern on the ceramics.
Where have you seen to replace rotors for, for that amount? All i can find is Brembo in the 350x34mm that come in at £3k by the time you factor pads which is more than I am willing or able to spend on a consumable part.
Just one of many sources: http://www.porscheshop.co.uk/acatalog/porsche_caym...Where have you seen to replace rotors for, for that amount? All i can find is Brembo in the 350x34mm that come in at £3k by the time you factor pads which is more than I am willing or able to spend on a consumable part.
PCCB performance on track is not in doubt, they provide tangible benefits but longevity is obvious reduced if you track A LOT, that's the point. If you're using your car on road primarily with a few TD's per year - PCCB's have the potential to outlast steel by quite a margin; if you change the pads on time the discs can last the life of the vehicle or certainly your ownership thereof.
Don't think you'll be getting into a gen2 Cayman for £25k, will you?
Don't think you'll be getting into a gen2 Cayman for £25k, will you?
Tubes89 said:
Cheers. 1700 Euros per disc is still more than I am wanting (again, or able) to spend on a consumable such as rotors.
The thing that sticks in my mind is that whilst its now a £25k~ car, its a £50/60k car that needs maintaining and to do this adequately would have to exclude PCCB's.
Glad you think the rotors are in good condition. I have asked the garage to get back to me ref the details on the brakes and if any of the history show replacements. If they are recent this maybe enough to sway in this direction.
I didn't list manual as the required spec as its sacrilege to have anything but in a Cayman!
Refurb is more like £600 per discThe thing that sticks in my mind is that whilst its now a £25k~ car, its a £50/60k car that needs maintaining and to do this adequately would have to exclude PCCB's.
Glad you think the rotors are in good condition. I have asked the garage to get back to me ref the details on the brakes and if any of the history show replacements. If they are recent this maybe enough to sway in this direction.
I didn't list manual as the required spec as its sacrilege to have anything but in a Cayman!
http://www.ceramicdiscrefurbishment.com/pricelist
Tubes89 said:
Trev450 said:
Tubes89 said:
I'm sure the standards are up to the job and I'm sure the PCCB's are even better. I only mention track days as the additional wear is a concern on the ceramics.
Where have you seen to replace rotors for, for that amount? All i can find is Brembo in the 350x34mm that come in at £3k by the time you factor pads which is more than I am willing or able to spend on a consumable part.
Just one of many sources: http://www.porscheshop.co.uk/acatalog/porsche_caym...Where have you seen to replace rotors for, for that amount? All i can find is Brembo in the 350x34mm that come in at £3k by the time you factor pads which is more than I am willing or able to spend on a consumable part.
Try speaking with Ian at http://www.godspeedbrakes.co.uk/ There's not much he can't do when it comes to brakes.
Fl0pp3r said:
PCCB performance on track is not in doubt, they provide tangible benefits but longevity is obvious reduced if you track A LOT, that's the point. If you're using your car on road primarily with a few TD's per year - PCCB's have the potential to outlast steel by quite a margin; if you change the pads on time the discs can last the life of the vehicle or certainly your ownership thereof.
Don't think you'll be getting into a gen2 Cayman for £25k, will you?
Personally I don't, but others seem to think so.Don't think you'll be getting into a gen2 Cayman for £25k, will you?
Trev450 said:
Tubes89 said:
Trev450 said:
Tubes89 said:
I'm sure the standards are up to the job and I'm sure the PCCB's are even better. I only mention track days as the additional wear is a concern on the ceramics.
Where have you seen to replace rotors for, for that amount? All i can find is Brembo in the 350x34mm that come in at £3k by the time you factor pads which is more than I am willing or able to spend on a consumable part.
Just one of many sources: http://www.porscheshop.co.uk/acatalog/porsche_caym...Where have you seen to replace rotors for, for that amount? All i can find is Brembo in the 350x34mm that come in at £3k by the time you factor pads which is more than I am willing or able to spend on a consumable part.
Try speaking with Ian at http://www.godspeedbrakes.co.uk/ There's not much he can't do when it comes to brakes.
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