12 GT4's for sale on PistonHeads and growing
Discussion
Fokker said:
Well well! I was thinking that you really must be shopping in Farm Foods if you're driving 3 Porkers and buying a new GT3 on a salary of under 45k!
?I don't run a Ltd company as some have stated.
I pay the full TAX on all profit.
So :-p
As I said I should write a book on how to do it, most people seem to have issues with it or don't believe it !
I have just bought a lightly used GT4. Before buying I did a trawl through all the GT4s on Pistonheads - independents as well as OPCs - and there were 48 cars for sale. Highest price was £119,995 and lowest £85,000. The average price being precisely £92,549. Just for fun, I tried to create a 'value index' based on price and mileage. Of course, this doesn't take spec into account (too difficult for my Excel skills) and some cars are priced high because of things like PCCB and other expensive options.
The car I eventually chose to buy had the spec I wanted, and also came out near the top of my 'value index'. Having said that, I still managed to get a few thousand off the asking price by haggling. Most dealerships don't sell cars, they sell finance - ever more innovative ways to make you believe you can buy the car you can't really afford.
They earn commission on finance deals, so always best to look at how much discount they will pass on if you take the finance. Take the discount and provided you have cash in the bank, you can then pay off a 5 year finance deal after one month, the only extra cost being one months interest.
With money on deposit earning very little (I do some work with a company in the Channel Islands where banks are offering negative interest, i.e., charging you for holding your money!) and with VW Finance rates above 9% APR, borrowing money to buy even a low depreciating asset doesn't make sense.
The car I eventually chose to buy had the spec I wanted, and also came out near the top of my 'value index'. Having said that, I still managed to get a few thousand off the asking price by haggling. Most dealerships don't sell cars, they sell finance - ever more innovative ways to make you believe you can buy the car you can't really afford.
They earn commission on finance deals, so always best to look at how much discount they will pass on if you take the finance. Take the discount and provided you have cash in the bank, you can then pay off a 5 year finance deal after one month, the only extra cost being one months interest.
With money on deposit earning very little (I do some work with a company in the Channel Islands where banks are offering negative interest, i.e., charging you for holding your money!) and with VW Finance rates above 9% APR, borrowing money to buy even a low depreciating asset doesn't make sense.
Porsche911R said:
?
I don't run a Ltd company as some have stated.
I pay the full TAX on all profit.
So :-p
As I said I should write a book on how to do it, most people seem to have issues with it or don't believe it !
Just as well your numbers came up then! Either way it doesn't matter... I don't run a Ltd company as some have stated.
I pay the full TAX on all profit.
So :-p
As I said I should write a book on how to do it, most people seem to have issues with it or don't believe it !
Twinfan said:
Sorry, didn't come across how I meant it! 
The 911 badge has a certain cachet that I don't think the Cayman has, so I don't think you can directly compare 911 sales to Cayman sales. It'll certainly be interesting to see what happens when the 718 GT4 appears, and like I've said previously I think it will all depend on the engine spec of the new one.
I dont think so. If the new GT4 had an elastic band instead of an engine people would still be clambering to buy it.The 911 badge has a certain cachet that I don't think the Cayman has, so I don't think you can directly compare 911 sales to Cayman sales. It'll certainly be interesting to see what happens when the 718 GT4 appears, and like I've said previously I think it will all depend on the engine spec of the new one.
The new GT3 hasn't had an effect on the old one yet, prices are still in the 130k's and have been for some time. The 997's are going up, especially the 7.2.
The new GT4 will have either the same engine with a little more power or a detuned GT3 motor. If it has a detuned GT3 motor then it will be quite a bit more expensive too but Porsche are quite predictable and i don't see that happening as it will then make the GT4 an expensive bit of kit when people are already complaining about its used prices now.
If it has the GT3 unit well, it'll be pretty amazing and probably very difficult to hold it back behind the GT3 in terms of performance. That engine needs to rev so detuning it so that it delivers proper performance without messing up the midrange mapping would not be an easy project.
Porsche911R said:
robj4 said:
Slightly misleading? I think you run a limited company David? Then of course you stay within the lower tax bracket by staying under a certain dividend threshold. But there are perfectly legal ways of extracting money from the business. Of course it all has to be earned in the first place so no shame attached.
It grates all the abuse I receive for having a car that I enjoy, but not when I get in it to drive home.
nope not a Ltd company I am a sole trader and what I earn is what I pay tax on.It grates all the abuse I receive for having a car that I enjoy, but not when I get in it to drive home.
So not misleading in any way.
Anyway, as I've just bought one of the more expensive GT4's the price will indeed plummet and CGTS prices rise inexorably. Especially yellow ones.
So, I am going to try and drive mine lots and lots and worry about stuff I can do something about. Which is very little.
Fokker said:
I dont think so. If the new GT4 had an elastic band instead of an engine people would still be clambering to buy it.
After thinking about it some more, I think I may be wrong and you may be right. I'm a tech-head and so the spec of the car is hugely important to me. To lots of other people though I could see that the 'Porsche GT4' badge is all that matters, or for the good people here on PH the on-track ability of the car.Fokker said:
Just as well your numbers came up then! Either way it doesn't matter...
lol I cannot win ;-)my point was some people think £6k is nothing or part ex a car for a £10k loss is nothing, but you can buck the modern trend if you so wish.
Unsecured lending now stands at £350bn
This is not sustainable !!!! there will be a massive correction in car prices imo
Porsche911R said:
?
I don't run a Ltd company as some have stated.
I pay the full TAX on all profit.
So :-p
As I said I should write a book on how to do it, most people seem to have issues with it or don't believe it !
Nothing clever or unique imo..!I don't run a Ltd company as some have stated.
I pay the full TAX on all profit.
So :-p
As I said I should write a book on how to do it, most people seem to have issues with it or don't believe it !
You obviously have no dependants living off your back as i have and you have paid off your mortgage because you got on the housing ladder very young.You probably have no expensive hobbies and a tee total non smoking scrooge.You make up for your frugal existence by antagonising innocent people via a keyboard..
On the other hand you simply could have inherited a huge wad from a relative which usually gives some people a financial headstart in life..I'm also a self-employed sole trader who unfortunately is in the highest tax bracket hence why i buy tax reducing plug-in hybrid Porsches to run alongside my fun GT Porsches...Most people who are able to buy new Porsches regularly are financially savvy otherwise they would go bankrupt as a result..
GT4P said:
Ask yourself this what new Porsche would you buy for >£100k?
In the past up to the 9x1 cars many of us lusted after the next model ie 9x6 to 9x7 etc but I think that has changed with the 718 and its F4 turbo costing as much as what a Gt4 was new and for that flat 6 experience you need at least £85k to buy a new 991.2 which will be base model and poverty spec. although that's not a bad thing .
So IMHO manual cars like gt4 , spyder, 9x7.2 cars,9x1 cars with a na engine being even more sort after and as time goes by and fewer good cars will be available hence keeping prices buoyant ! Even if there is some sort of crash yes prices will soften but not as much as £150k plus cars and even then those selling the really expensive toys will be looking for something cheaper for their motoring thrills and cars like the Gt4 fit nicely in that bracket
I also think prices will settle in the low to mid 70s but that may not be for a while!
Never mind the colour of the stitching! I agree with the above. A spec'd up 718 makes a GT4 look like the bargain of the century at list- even at the current overs it's incomparable to the other new car options. In the past up to the 9x1 cars many of us lusted after the next model ie 9x6 to 9x7 etc but I think that has changed with the 718 and its F4 turbo costing as much as what a Gt4 was new and for that flat 6 experience you need at least £85k to buy a new 991.2 which will be base model and poverty spec. although that's not a bad thing .
So IMHO manual cars like gt4 , spyder, 9x7.2 cars,9x1 cars with a na engine being even more sort after and as time goes by and fewer good cars will be available hence keeping prices buoyant ! Even if there is some sort of crash yes prices will soften but not as much as £150k plus cars and even then those selling the really expensive toys will be looking for something cheaper for their motoring thrills and cars like the Gt4 fit nicely in that bracket
I also think prices will settle in the low to mid 70s but that may not be for a while!
Taffy66 said:
Nothing clever or unique imo..!
You obviously have no dependants living off your back as i have and you have paid off your mortgage because you got on the housing ladder very young.You probably have no expensive hobbies and a tee total non smoking scrooge.You make up for your frugal existence by antagonising innocent people via a keyboard..
On the other hand you simply could have inherited a huge wad from a relative which usually gives some people a financial headstart in life..I'm also a self-employed sole trader who unfortunately is in the highest tax bracket hence why i buy tax reducing plug-in hybrid Porsches to run alongside my fun GT Porsches...Most people who are able to buy new Porsches regularly are financially savvy otherwise they would go bankrupt as a result..
just how wrong you are and hence why no one should judge others on forums esp if it's making up bullsYou obviously have no dependants living off your back as i have and you have paid off your mortgage because you got on the housing ladder very young.You probably have no expensive hobbies and a tee total non smoking scrooge.You make up for your frugal existence by antagonising innocent people via a keyboard..
On the other hand you simply could have inherited a huge wad from a relative which usually gives some people a financial headstart in life..I'm also a self-employed sole trader who unfortunately is in the highest tax bracket hence why i buy tax reducing plug-in hybrid Porsches to run alongside my fun GT Porsches...Most people who are able to buy new Porsches regularly are financially savvy otherwise they would go bankrupt as a result..
t ;-)I have a mortgage and my expensive hobby is cars !
It's funny this forum, ltd companies, inherited money lol
why do you say "unfortunately is in the highest tax bracket " that means you earn more money ! why is that unfortunate ?
Another gripe of mine is people who quote how much TAX they pay as an amount, !!! I always say if you pay that much TAX wtf do you earn ? :-)
I don't think people are "financially savvy " as you state on the whole hence the 360BN unsecured debt !
Porsche911R said:
I don't think people are "financially savvy " as you state on the whole hence the 360BN unsecured debt !
I think the financially un-savvy make up the majority of the £360 billion in unsecured debt!But then borrowing say 25k from your bank at 3.3% apr is a lot more savvy than 9% on a PCP. That's perry savvy!
Porsche911R said:
just how wrong you are and hence why no one should judge others on forums esp if it's making up bullst ;-)
I have a mortgage and my expensive hobby is cars !
It's funny this forum, ltd companies, inherited money lol
why do you say "unfortunately is in the highest tax bracket " that means you earn more money ! why is that unfortunate ?
Another gripe of mine is people who quote how much TAX they pay as an amount, !!! I always say if you pay that much TAX wtf do you earn ? :-)
I don't think people are "financially savvy " as you state on the whole hence the 360BN unsecured debt !
My last post was meant in jest..in other words i was baiting you and you bit..My comment ''unfortunately is in the highest tax bracket'' meant my indignation as knowing that 50% of the fruits of my labour is being squandered by wasteful civil servants to prop up a debt driven failed economy and to service a £1.7Tr and growing national debt which will end in financial meltdown much sooner than we think.t ;-)I have a mortgage and my expensive hobby is cars !
It's funny this forum, ltd companies, inherited money lol
why do you say "unfortunately is in the highest tax bracket " that means you earn more money ! why is that unfortunate ?
Another gripe of mine is people who quote how much TAX they pay as an amount, !!! I always say if you pay that much TAX wtf do you earn ? :-)
I don't think people are "financially savvy " as you state on the whole hence the 360BN unsecured debt !
Why do you think we have the lowest productivity per head in the civilised world and behind most european countries including Italy and Spain and 38% less productive than Germany.The answer becomes all too clear to me when i pay a visit to any UK city to see long lines outside fast food joints full of people stuffing their fat faces with garbage.....In other words we have become a lazy fat complacent nation too dependant on indebted consumers and importing everything in to satiate our unquenchable appetite for spending money we dont have rather than work hard to export to others..
Edited by Taffy66 on Tuesday 11th July 17:20
Taffy66 said:
My last post was meant in jest..in other words i was baiting you and you bit..My comment ''unfortunately is in the highest tax bracket'' meant my indignation as knowing that 50% of the fruits of my labour is being squandered by wasteful civil servants to prop up a debt driven failed economy and to service a £1.7Tr and growing national debt which will end in financial meltdown much sooner than we think.
Why do you think we have the lowest productivity per head in the civilised world and behind most european countries including Italy and Spain and 38% less productive than Germany.The answer becomes all too clear to me when i pay a visit to any UK city to see long lines outside fast food joints full of people stuffing their fat faces with garbage.....In other words we have become a lazy fat complacent nation too dependant on indebted consumers and importing everything in to satiate our unquenchable appetite for spending money we dont have rather than work hard to export to others..
I agreeWhy do you think we have the lowest productivity per head in the civilised world and behind most european countries including Italy and Spain and 38% less productive than Germany.The answer becomes all too clear to me when i pay a visit to any UK city to see long lines outside fast food joints full of people stuffing their fat faces with garbage.....In other words we have become a lazy fat complacent nation too dependant on indebted consumers and importing everything in to satiate our unquenchable appetite for spending money we dont have rather than work hard to export to others..
Edited by Taffy66 on Tuesday 11th July 17:20
We have become a nation who's economy is driven by spending financed by debt it reminds me of the late eighties and early noughtys looks like we didn't learn anything !
Oh well at least there will be some good deals on houses and cars again!
Save when times are good and spend when times are bad is my motto!
As a German it is my opinion that a significant factor in the difference in productivity is the English propensity to P*SSYFOOT around the truth to be "polite".
I can't get fk all done if I have to walk on eggshells in the office all day, wondering if I've offended some poor snowflake Britisher because I told him his work was a stinking pile of dog doo doo.
I can't get fk all done if I have to walk on eggshells in the office all day, wondering if I've offended some poor snowflake Britisher because I told him his work was a stinking pile of dog doo doo.
Edited by decrassius on Tuesday 11th July 20:25
decrassius said:
As a German it is my opinion that a significant factor in the difference in productivity is the English propensity to P*SSYFOOT around the truth to be "polite".
I can't get fk all done if I have to walk on eggshells in the office all day, wondering if I've offended some poor snowflake Britisher because I told him his work was a stinking pile of dog doo doo.
Ummm , well that post is going to go down well .I can't get fk all done if I have to walk on eggshells in the office all day, wondering if I've offended some poor snowflake Britisher because I told him his work was a stinking pile of dog doo doo.
Edited by decrassius on Tuesday 11th July 20:25
RSVP911 said:
decrassius said:
As a German it is my opinion that a significant factor in the difference in productivity is the English propensity to P*SSYFOOT around the truth to be "polite".
I can't get fk all done if I have to walk on eggshells in the office all day, wondering if I've offended some poor snowflake Britisher because I told him his work was a stinking pile of dog doo doo.
Ummm , well that post is going to go down well .I can't get fk all done if I have to walk on eggshells in the office all day, wondering if I've offended some poor snowflake Britisher because I told him his work was a stinking pile of dog doo doo.
Edited by decrassius on Tuesday 11th July 20:25
I do recall my late father doing a pile of financial work gratis for a local voluntary organisation and sending it on to their German treasurer, who responded with a list of complaints over how he had configured the spreadsheets and an offer to give him some tuition.
md_ian said:
Geez, can we perhaps revert back to the (slightly) less offensive discussions of value, or how Mr Demon affords 3 nice cars on his 'average' wage 
No, I'm happy bashing the Brits for being a lazy bunch of unproductive tts. Apart from me of course because I work hard to buy German productivity. Gassing Station | Boxster/Cayman | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff