12 GT4's for sale on PistonHeads and growing
Discussion
TomEdward said:
I disagree. Not all corners are 100mph corners so your point is mute.
It's fine to disagree, (and it's moot) but you have to explain why :-)The slower the corner the easier the GT4 takes it vs an R so not sure on which points you can disagree on.
A 60 mph bend is going to be more exciting in the R at 55mph than in the GT4 at 60mph.
Any corner in my two older cars gives you more feed back and easier to get to the limit than my 3 newer cars, that's just a fact.
But take the average B road, you really drive them at 85MPH hitting 120 on the straight bits, there are not many 40/50 mph corners on flowing roads. And you tend not to need the brakes much also many are blind, so the risk reward comes into it again, more speed = more risk but you need the speed to get the best from the newer cars !
I already stated the GT4 can give you 1.5G and yes I did get a bit of fun in that on tighter bends, but over all the GT4 is less fun over all due to that grip you never run out of.
GT4 is a great car and the best value GT track car they make for sure and it slotted into a gap when the GT3 was not offering a manual.
But I do have to question this "fun" aspect vs an R for road use as a driving experience.
If I set a speed limit in the dash and did one road at 85mph max limit in both cars the R would be the most fun hands down.
Edited by Porsche911R on Sunday 22 April 21:39
Porsche911R said:
It's fine to disagree, (and it's moot) but you have to explain why :-)
The slower the corner the easier the GT4 takes it vs an R so not sure on which points you can disagree on.
A 60 mph bend is going to be more exciting in the R at 55mph than in the GT4 at 60mph.
Any corner in my two older cars gives you more feed back and easier to get to the limit than my 3 newer cars, that's just a fact.
But take the average B road, you really drive them at 85MPH hitting 120 on the straight bits, there are not many 40/50 mph corners on flowing roads. And you tend not to need the brakes much also many are blind, so the risk reward comes into it again, more speed = more risk but you need the speed to get the best from the newer cars !
I already stated the GT4 can give you 1.5G and yes I did get a bit of fun in that on tighter bends, but over all the GT4 is less fun over all due to that grip you never run out of.
GT4 is a great car and the best value GT track car they make for sure and it slotted into a gap when the GT3 was not offering a manual.
But I do have to question this "fun" aspect vs an R for road use as a driving experience.
If I set a speed limit in the dash and did one road at 85mph max limit in both cars the R would be the most fun hands down.
Bet you’re a hute at parties :-) The slower the corner the easier the GT4 takes it vs an R so not sure on which points you can disagree on.
A 60 mph bend is going to be more exciting in the R at 55mph than in the GT4 at 60mph.
Any corner in my two older cars gives you more feed back and easier to get to the limit than my 3 newer cars, that's just a fact.
But take the average B road, you really drive them at 85MPH hitting 120 on the straight bits, there are not many 40/50 mph corners on flowing roads. And you tend not to need the brakes much also many are blind, so the risk reward comes into it again, more speed = more risk but you need the speed to get the best from the newer cars !
I already stated the GT4 can give you 1.5G and yes I did get a bit of fun in that on tighter bends, but over all the GT4 is less fun over all due to that grip you never run out of.
GT4 is a great car and the best value GT track car they make for sure and it slotted into a gap when the GT3 was not offering a manual.
But I do have to question this "fun" aspect vs an R for road use as a driving experience.
If I set a speed limit in the dash and did one road at 85mph max limit in both cars the R would be the most fun hands down.
Edited by Porsche911R on Sunday 22 April 21:39
Sum of its parts. At the limit the GT4 is more fun but it’s also more fun at slower speeds. Sure slower cars can be more fun and at slower speeds also. Take my father in laws 964 for example, that car feels great at any speed the connection to the road and interaction with the car is sublime, the steering is heavy but it feels great. I think that’s the point about the GT4 over the R, the sum of its parts makes it a more enjoyable experience for me. I went out on track in a 997 GT3 at Anglesey this year followed by a 991.2 GT3. Which was more fun? The 997. Why? The driver. He went sideways around most corners. That was fun. The 991.2 was a weapon and was driven with great skill and control at the edge of the limits. Wasn’t as fun but mighty impressive. Fun is simply a feeling that people experience and it’s to an extent very personal and can’t be summed up by geometry, displacement or dampner settings. I sha99ed a fat bird once wasn’t as much fun as the ugly one I sha99ed with big t1ts! :-)
Whoosh parrot.....
Different cars subjectively provide different levels of fun shocker!!
My father's old Mini Cooper S was fun on specific roads as was my old Capri 280 Brooklands but subjectively they do not offer anywhere near the required levels of driver interaction and hence fun that I experience from certain Porsches IRRESPECTIVE of speed and limits.
As for the 997 GT3 being more fun simply because it went sideways..... try turning the systems off on a 991.2 GT3! Ref the Monkey Harris video on Anglesey.
Regarding the GT4 v 991.2 GT3 'fun' debate for road use, whilst the limits are clearly higher for the GT3 than the GT4 this does not automatically equate to the GT3 being less involving hence less fun at lower speeds/limits.
On the contrary, the GT4's gearbox (inappropriate ratios), rear chassis, steering (great but behind the GT3s) and non GT Carrera S engine together with overall less hard core driving environment mean it is a more detached and unrewarding to drive than the GT3 even at lower speeds never mind higher ones where the GT3 is clearly up there with the best.
Different cars subjectively provide different levels of fun shocker!!
My father's old Mini Cooper S was fun on specific roads as was my old Capri 280 Brooklands but subjectively they do not offer anywhere near the required levels of driver interaction and hence fun that I experience from certain Porsches IRRESPECTIVE of speed and limits.
As for the 997 GT3 being more fun simply because it went sideways..... try turning the systems off on a 991.2 GT3! Ref the Monkey Harris video on Anglesey.
Regarding the GT4 v 991.2 GT3 'fun' debate for road use, whilst the limits are clearly higher for the GT3 than the GT4 this does not automatically equate to the GT3 being less involving hence less fun at lower speeds/limits.
On the contrary, the GT4's gearbox (inappropriate ratios), rear chassis, steering (great but behind the GT3s) and non GT Carrera S engine together with overall less hard core driving environment mean it is a more detached and unrewarding to drive than the GT3 even at lower speeds never mind higher ones where the GT3 is clearly up there with the best.
av185 said:
As for the 997 GT3 being more fun simply because it went sideways..... try turning the systems off on a 991.2 GT3! Ref the Monkey Harris video on Anglesey.
Regarding the GT4 v 991.2 GT3 'fun' debate for road use, whilst the limits are clearly higher for the GT3 than the GT4 this does not automatically equate to the GT3 being less involving hence less fun at lower speeds/limits.
On the contrary, the GT4's gearbox (inappropriate ratios), rear chassis, steering (great but behind the GT3s) and non GT Carrera S engine together with overall less hard core driving environment mean it is a more detached and unrewarding to drive than the GT3 even at lower speeds never mind higher ones where the GT3 is clearly up there with the best.
^ Good points Regarding the GT4 v 991.2 GT3 'fun' debate for road use, whilst the limits are clearly higher for the GT3 than the GT4 this does not automatically equate to the GT3 being less involving hence less fun at lower speeds/limits.
On the contrary, the GT4's gearbox (inappropriate ratios), rear chassis, steering (great but behind the GT3s) and non GT Carrera S engine together with overall less hard core driving environment mean it is a more detached and unrewarding to drive than the GT3 even at lower speeds never mind higher ones where the GT3 is clearly up there with the best.
I meant the 997 was more fun because the driver was (objectively) having more fun slinging it sideways, so at the time it was a completely different driving experience to the 991.2. Hence why I said the difference in "fun" was the driver (and his intention). I don't doubt the 991.2 is equally as much fun if you turn the nannies off and pedal it hard. My point is fun is subjective so this whole debate about which car is more fun is so subjective that it's hard to rationalise and debate. IMO the GT4 is more fun than the R and a GT3 is more fun than a GT4. I'll let you know what the GT2RS is like when I take it for a spin next week...
IMO the GT4 is more fun than the R and a GT3 is more fun than a GT4.
Everyones view can be different and it does not mean anyone is right or wrong it is just your view and what makes you feel good in that moment.
IMO my GT4 is more fun than my previous 991.1GT3 however my 997 GT3RS was more fun than both put together. Again my opinion
TomEdward said:
Bet you’re a hute at parties :-)
Sum of its parts. At the limit the GT4 is more fun
I still want to know how A: you get to the limit and B: how it's more fun at the limit than the R is !Sum of its parts. At the limit the GT4 is more fun
some one drifting a 997 GT3 has no bearing on what cars are the most fun.
Hence why I am asking people what fun is, no right and wrong if you like what you like. (I missed drifting off my list btw and yes that's fun to do and a skill to master)
It's just I am getting very little feed back on why things are MORE "fun".
Edited by Porsche911R on Monday 23 April 12:17
Ok help needed.
I want more power from my GT4 but I don't want to spend huge amounts as I'll probably have the new version when its out.
What's the most economical way to extract more power from the GT4? I don't really want a whole exhaust system and I don't want a car that is any louder than it is now. If I have to have it louder then I at least want to retain the switchable exhaust.
Advise welcomed
I want more power from my GT4 but I don't want to spend huge amounts as I'll probably have the new version when its out.
What's the most economical way to extract more power from the GT4? I don't really want a whole exhaust system and I don't want a car that is any louder than it is now. If I have to have it louder then I at least want to retain the switchable exhaust.
Advise welcomed
This is where I would be heading if I was looking to up the power...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVFTypYmjqY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVFTypYmjqY
Fokker said:
Ok help needed.
I want more power from my GT4 but I don't want to spend huge amounts as I'll probably have the new version when its out.
What's the most economical way to extract more power from the GT4? I don't really want a whole exhaust system and I don't want a car that is any louder than it is now. If I have to have it louder then I at least want to retain the switchable exhaust.
Advise welcomed
leave the GT4 at home take the GT3 out :-) I have just saved you £8k and made the car easier to resell.I want more power from my GT4 but I don't want to spend huge amounts as I'll probably have the new version when its out.
What's the most economical way to extract more power from the GT4? I don't really want a whole exhaust system and I don't want a car that is any louder than it is now. If I have to have it louder then I at least want to retain the switchable exhaust.
Advise welcomed
the key to power is air in, then air out and a map to get it all working.
Manifolds are needed but you will get a load more noise, I run these on my 987.2 Spyder it's great.
GT3 throttle body which needs the IPD , and a map to get it all working for you.
BANG goes any warranty. GT4 is a modding dream car, it's cheap to get some go from it, but if you have a GT3 and will get a GT4 gen 2 car , just leave it alone.
Fokker said:
Ok help needed.
I want more power from my GT4 but I don't want to spend huge amounts as I'll probably have the new version when its out.
What's the most economical way to extract more power from the GT4? I don't really want a whole exhaust system and I don't want a car that is any louder than it is now. If I have to have it louder then I at least want to retain the switchable exhaust.
Advise welcomed
Hi Dave...!! As we spoke about briefly via email, a complete exhaust system would be unnecessary for “bang for buck” performance gains— and would be bloody LOUD...!! Thought it would be worth just sharing my thoughts more generally, as it may help others looking to do the same as us....! From researching this pretty heavily, I’d say IPD/TB/COBB tune/Catted Headers/Air Filters would be the way to go.... But..... It’s not cheap: think circa £10k and upwards.... Jens Ehresmann over in Germany has the best rep in the GT4 tuning business, but there is a price tag to match...!! Also, if you are likely to move it on in the near future, I’d agree with CMoose and 911R: leave it be.... The car will lose warranty, be worth less, and shifting the mods on may well prove difficult if taken off the car....!! I’ve been looking at doing the Jens conversion myself, but ONLY if I’ve decided the GT4 is a keeper, and I’m not currently in that position— am probably going to leave stock for the time being....!! I want more power from my GT4 but I don't want to spend huge amounts as I'll probably have the new version when its out.
What's the most economical way to extract more power from the GT4? I don't really want a whole exhaust system and I don't want a car that is any louder than it is now. If I have to have it louder then I at least want to retain the switchable exhaust.
Advise welcomed
P.S Dave: I need your Masseuse....!!
Edited by Swimfinz on Monday 23 April 16:56
Swimfinz said:
dysart200 said:
I've now had my GT4 for 2 years and 12000 miles and I'm considering a change. After the expected knock back on .2 GT3 and .2 GT3RS, I'm getting impatient waiting on launch of 718 GT4/RS or whatever it may be. I'm considering trading GT4 in for something different for the summer and hopefully get into the new varient when it comes. Considering Carrera T, .2 GTS or maybe even a Boxster Spyder....used of course. My fear is I change and the performance is nowhere near to the GT4....and then they announce turbo GT4 and I'll be stuck! Anyone got experience with all these cars and any advice would be appreciated. I think I'm probably just craving something new for a change.
Depends what you are looking for in terms of “performance”.... The Spyder (I’m assuming you mean the 981 variant) will be much the same as the GT4– unless you track a lot—but without a roof (both a good and bad thing in this country...!). The T and .2 GTS are turbo’d, and thus they deliver power in a very different way— huge amounts of torque, but nowhere near as smooth as a N/A motor. But the outright “performance” is certainly there.... Personally, I’d never swap my GT4 for either of the latter 2 cars, unless I needed the back seats of the GTS: they just don’t “feel” as hard-edged and don’t provide the same level of feedback/involvement.... The Spyder I would only really swap into for a bit of sunny, summer fun; or if I didn’t do any track work.... And yes— I’ve driven all of these cars, and own a GT4, so hopefully have some level of objectivity (although I’m obviously GT4 biased... )Why not try the 987.2 Spyder...?? Cracking car, and one of my biggest regrets in selling....
If you need a do it all road car that can be reasonable on fuel / comfort, then a GTS is great, but i feel the GT4 is more special to drive and as said above alot more "involvement"
That said the 991.1 is a totally different beast and might be worth considering, i found that with the N/A screaming engine its a lot more raw an experience.
dysart200 said:
Thanks for the reply, good to hear from someone with experience of all of them.
Pretty much what I expected. I don't track the car yet. Spend my time on the B roads so maybe the Spyder would be a good choice for the summer as I'm no racing driver so doubt I'd even notice the small difference in the GT4 to the Spyder. As it is for country roads, I'm not bothered for top end speed or outright acceleration when it comes to performance. I was referring more the wonderful steering and go kart feel of the GT4. I have ceramics but by all accounts on these threads, the steel's are phenomenal as well. I know the Carrera T or GTS will not be as good as the GT4 in this sense but kind of hoped the gap wouldn't be large enough to really annoy me. I think I just want a new toy.....
Also, for the type of driving you are doing, i found the GTS had too much power, never got near it's limits, whereas the GT4 is about rightPretty much what I expected. I don't track the car yet. Spend my time on the B roads so maybe the Spyder would be a good choice for the summer as I'm no racing driver so doubt I'd even notice the small difference in the GT4 to the Spyder. As it is for country roads, I'm not bothered for top end speed or outright acceleration when it comes to performance. I was referring more the wonderful steering and go kart feel of the GT4. I have ceramics but by all accounts on these threads, the steel's are phenomenal as well. I know the Carrera T or GTS will not be as good as the GT4 in this sense but kind of hoped the gap wouldn't be large enough to really annoy me. I think I just want a new toy.....
trowelhead said:
Also, for the type of driving you are doing, i found the GTS had too much power, never got near it's limits, whereas the GT4 is about right
Turbo's give you more usable power more of the time though so I would never say a Turbo car has too much power, as you can use all that power very low in the rev band, A NA engine needs winding up to use it and you most of the time run out of space or road.Limits is an odd thing to say as the GT4 will have higher limits.
I'm hopefully about to re-enter the fold with my 2nd GT4 after selling 991.2 C2 GTS (miami blue)
I'm doing a euro rally event and also some SCD events over the summer so another GT4 fits the bill perfectly.
Collecting today hopefully, and a higher spec than my last car, it's the redline martini car if anyone knows it?
Will most likely keep over summer and look to move on late summer...
I'm doing a euro rally event and also some SCD events over the summer so another GT4 fits the bill perfectly.
Collecting today hopefully, and a higher spec than my last car, it's the redline martini car if anyone knows it?
Will most likely keep over summer and look to move on late summer...
Porsche911R said:
trowelhead said:
Also, for the type of driving you are doing, i found the GTS had too much power, never got near it's limits, whereas the GT4 is about right
Turbo's give you more usable power more of the time though so I would never say a Turbo car has too much power, as you can use all that power very low in the rev band, A NA engine needs winding up to use it and you most of the time run out of space or road.Limits is an odd thing to say as the GT4 will have higher limits.
And by limits i meant more power / speed than handling. On the roads always felt like i was backing off really soon due to already being at horrendous speeds.
Having said that, launch control was f
king amazing 
Edited by trowelhead on Tuesday 24th April 09:52
Thanks for the feedback guys. I was hoping someone would say that for £75 I could add an air filter and gain 30bhp
Oh well I'll leave it be for the time being then and see what happens with the new one.
Also as above with the GTS, I've had a 991.1 GTS and although not a turbo, it was a good road car but I sold it and got back into a GT4 again as it just wasn't as much fun as the GT4 for driving thrills so good call in my opinion.
Oh well I'll leave it be for the time being then and see what happens with the new one.
Also as above with the GTS, I've had a 991.1 GTS and although not a turbo, it was a good road car but I sold it and got back into a GT4 again as it just wasn't as much fun as the GT4 for driving thrills so good call in my opinion.
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