12 GT4's for sale on PistonHeads and growing
Discussion
av185 said:
GT4RS said:
Nice honest sensible priced gt4 cars seem to be selling far better than gt3 cars at the moment.
Only in your dreams.The market suggests otherwise.
On PH we have seen quite a few people posting in the last 10days about getting into a GT4, selling, or people seeing cars are moving.... a large part in response to what we think will be an announcement of the new car at some point in the near future.
Haven't seen as many posts like that on GT3, of people actually buying/selling... therefore - based upon observing the PH Market... GT4RS - is fine to voice his opinion.
'Selling better' can be for a number of reasons... Price point... and availability/spec.
GT3 are more expensive.
Many people are deterred from the 991.1 so then are only looking at 991.2 which still command large/ disproportionate premium. Then there is availability and the 'right spec'. 997 are a lot older for the same money as a GT4.
Maybe there are more GT4 available of the 'right spec' and lower price point.. which means you'll see more movement vs GT3 where supply is relatively more limited and the price point is significantly higher.
av185 said:
GT4RS said:
Nice honest sensible priced gt4 cars seem to be selling far better than gt3 cars at the moment.
Only in your dreams.The market suggests otherwise.
No idea about how that compares to GT3s because I've not been watching what's happening with them.
Porsche Might be Working on a 718 Cayman GT4 Touring Package
Porsche sells a wing-less 911 GT3 offering serious performance in a subtle package. It might do the same with the 718 Cayman GT4.
BY CHRIS PERKINS
FEB 7, 2019
A few months ago, we showed you video of a Porsche 718 Cayman testing on the Nürburgring sporting an unusual exhaust/diffuser setup, with an exhaust note very different from that of the normal 718's turbo flat-four. Many—including YouTube's Automotive Mike, who uploaded the video—speculated that this was the soon-to-be-revealed 718 Cayman T. But around a week later, the 718 T arrived with a flat-four and the same rear exhaust/diffuser design as the base 718
We think what we're seeing here is sort of 718 Cayman GT4. Check out those exhaust tips and diffuser again—they appear identical to those on the 718 Cayman GT4 Clubsport race car, shown below. They certainly look the same as those on other 718 Cayman GT4 road-car prototypes, too.
This prototype definitely sounds like it's got a flat-six, too, and we know that the upcoming GT4 will ditch the regular 718's turbo flat-four for a naturally aspirated six. It'll likely be a version of the 4.0-liter used in the 911 GT3, which is Porsche's only naturally aspirated motor certified for road-car use right now.
But, this car appears to have the same retractable wing as the regular 718 Cayman—not a big fixed wing like the previous GT4, or the new race car. To us, that seems to mimic the 911 GT3 Touring Package, which eschews the regular GT3's fixed wing for a retractable spoiler. This could mean Porsche is working on a 718 Cayman GT4 Touring Package—or perhaps this Cayman is just a test mule that doesn't reflect a car headed to production.
We've been going down the 718 rabbit hole as a result of an Automobile story that claims Porsche will use a flat-six in some additional models beyond the upcoming 718 Cayman GT4 and Boxster Spyder. There's good reason for Porsche to do this—718 sales have been down lately, possibly due to their turbo flat-fours, which haven't been warmly received. The company is looking to boost sales with the new GT4, which will likely offer an optional dual-clutch automatic transmission for the first time, to broaden its appeal.
The 911 GT3 Touring has been a success for Porsche. Perhaps a Touring variant of the 718 GT4 could be a similar hit.
Both Automobile and England's Car magazine speculate that the Cayman and Boxster will see the revival of the old 3.8-liter flat-six, best known from the 2012-2015 911 Carrera S and the previous Cayman GT4. While that engine currently appears in the 718 Cayman GT4 Clubsport racer, we doubt it will be used in a new road car. It was put back into (limited) production for the new GT4 race car mainly because it was competition-proven, and familiar to the teams that ran the old Cayman GT4. But a knowledgeable source tells us that using this engine in a new road car would require significant re-engineering to meet current emissions regulations.
And finally, the twin-turbo 3.0-liter flat-six in the current 911 won't fit in the 718's tiny engine bay. In our estimation, the 4.0-liter is likely the only street-legal flat-six that can work in the current-generation 718.
What we know for certain is that Porsche has some plans for the 718 Cayman and Boxster. Last time I spoke with him, August Achleitner, Porsche's soon-to-retire sports car chief engineer, said there are multiple exciting 718 variants coming later this year. We'll just have to wait to find out how many of them have six cylinders.
Porsche sells a wing-less 911 GT3 offering serious performance in a subtle package. It might do the same with the 718 Cayman GT4.
BY CHRIS PERKINS
FEB 7, 2019
A few months ago, we showed you video of a Porsche 718 Cayman testing on the Nürburgring sporting an unusual exhaust/diffuser setup, with an exhaust note very different from that of the normal 718's turbo flat-four. Many—including YouTube's Automotive Mike, who uploaded the video—speculated that this was the soon-to-be-revealed 718 Cayman T. But around a week later, the 718 T arrived with a flat-four and the same rear exhaust/diffuser design as the base 718
We think what we're seeing here is sort of 718 Cayman GT4. Check out those exhaust tips and diffuser again—they appear identical to those on the 718 Cayman GT4 Clubsport race car, shown below. They certainly look the same as those on other 718 Cayman GT4 road-car prototypes, too.
This prototype definitely sounds like it's got a flat-six, too, and we know that the upcoming GT4 will ditch the regular 718's turbo flat-four for a naturally aspirated six. It'll likely be a version of the 4.0-liter used in the 911 GT3, which is Porsche's only naturally aspirated motor certified for road-car use right now.
But, this car appears to have the same retractable wing as the regular 718 Cayman—not a big fixed wing like the previous GT4, or the new race car. To us, that seems to mimic the 911 GT3 Touring Package, which eschews the regular GT3's fixed wing for a retractable spoiler. This could mean Porsche is working on a 718 Cayman GT4 Touring Package—or perhaps this Cayman is just a test mule that doesn't reflect a car headed to production.
We've been going down the 718 rabbit hole as a result of an Automobile story that claims Porsche will use a flat-six in some additional models beyond the upcoming 718 Cayman GT4 and Boxster Spyder. There's good reason for Porsche to do this—718 sales have been down lately, possibly due to their turbo flat-fours, which haven't been warmly received. The company is looking to boost sales with the new GT4, which will likely offer an optional dual-clutch automatic transmission for the first time, to broaden its appeal.
The 911 GT3 Touring has been a success for Porsche. Perhaps a Touring variant of the 718 GT4 could be a similar hit.
Both Automobile and England's Car magazine speculate that the Cayman and Boxster will see the revival of the old 3.8-liter flat-six, best known from the 2012-2015 911 Carrera S and the previous Cayman GT4. While that engine currently appears in the 718 Cayman GT4 Clubsport racer, we doubt it will be used in a new road car. It was put back into (limited) production for the new GT4 race car mainly because it was competition-proven, and familiar to the teams that ran the old Cayman GT4. But a knowledgeable source tells us that using this engine in a new road car would require significant re-engineering to meet current emissions regulations.
And finally, the twin-turbo 3.0-liter flat-six in the current 911 won't fit in the 718's tiny engine bay. In our estimation, the 4.0-liter is likely the only street-legal flat-six that can work in the current-generation 718.
What we know for certain is that Porsche has some plans for the 718 Cayman and Boxster. Last time I spoke with him, August Achleitner, Porsche's soon-to-retire sports car chief engineer, said there are multiple exciting 718 variants coming later this year. We'll just have to wait to find out how many of them have six cylinders.
boxsey said:
av185 said:
GT4RS said:
Nice honest sensible priced gt4 cars seem to be selling far better than gt3 cars at the moment.
Only in your dreams.The market suggests otherwise.
No idea about how that compares to GT3s because I've not been watching what's happening with them.
Riiight.
Yes GT4s sell at the right price. If they are the right spec. But to suggest they are selling 'far better' than GT3s is ridiculous especially bearing in mind many are waiting for the forthcoming 718 GT4.
911R is correct in saying GT3 prices have risen. As expected.
Lots of yellow GT4s for sale btw.
I have both cars btw and have no axe to grind either way.
boxsey said:
av185 said:
GT4RS said:
Nice honest sensible priced gt4 cars seem to be selling far better than gt3 cars at the moment.
Only in your dreams.The market suggests otherwise.
No idea about how that compares to GT3s because I've not been watching what's happening with them.
I also think when the new gt4 hits our shores with its 4.0 and possibly of a touring pack we will see another shift downwards on the 991.2. Gt3.
Be interesting to see when the weather breaks if all variations of gt3 cars start selling again.
As for a gt3 going up in price in the current climate 🤣
I have been looking to buy a GT4 or 981 Spyder for a couple of months. I eventually settled on a Spyder (trips to Alps with roof down was appealing) and have been watching the market everyday. I have been negotiating on 2 white Spyders for a month, thinking they would not sell & I would bide my time until they were further reduced, then suddenly this weekend they both sold and both were my ideal spec. The market is limited and drying up. So I bought the last one for sale in the spec I wanted (white / folding buckets / AC / PCM / stitched dash / 64L tank / under 10k miles) but had to pay a little more than the other 2. So in my opinion market is recovering from its winter hibernation and if you see a GT4 or Spyder in the spec you want then buy it as you will regret it if it goes.....
I agree everything is moving, but a lot of low spec cars are priced wrong and sticking.
People are savvy on spec now, and 8 years ago that was not the case, but today spec sells the car and people want to know the list price you paid.
Infact when I put my Spyder up every phone call wanted to know the list price of the car before anything else.
Today it,s about what overs people want to pay, you seem to get all your option money back the newer the car.
The closer to list the car is for sale at the better the chance of a sale, in any spec.
OPC seem to have not got this ! And price low spec cars at big spec money !
And it’s these cars not moving.
People are savvy on spec now, and 8 years ago that was not the case, but today spec sells the car and people want to know the list price you paid.
Infact when I put my Spyder up every phone call wanted to know the list price of the car before anything else.
Today it,s about what overs people want to pay, you seem to get all your option money back the newer the car.
The closer to list the car is for sale at the better the chance of a sale, in any spec.
OPC seem to have not got this ! And price low spec cars at big spec money !
And it’s these cars not moving.
av185 said:
So you say GT4RS is right and yet you admit to having no idea about the GT3 market.
Riiight.
Yes GT4s sell at the right price. If they are the right spec. But to suggest they are selling 'far better' than GT3s is ridiculous especially bearing in mind many are waiting for the forthcoming 718 GT4.
911R is correct in saying GT3 prices have risen. As expected.
Lots of yellow GT4s for sale btw.
I have both cars btw and have no axe to grind either way.
I interpreted your post as saying that GT4s were not selling so pointed out that they are. I'd no idea of how that compared to GT3 sales at the time. So looks like we were at crossed purposes. I see that at the moment it's 16 x GT4 and 29 x GT3 at OPCs. Yes, there are more yellow GT4 than others but that's not surprising because the launch colour was a very popular option for those that bought them new. I have no axe grind about GT4 vs GT3 either.Riiight.
Yes GT4s sell at the right price. If they are the right spec. But to suggest they are selling 'far better' than GT3s is ridiculous especially bearing in mind many are waiting for the forthcoming 718 GT4.
911R is correct in saying GT3 prices have risen. As expected.
Lots of yellow GT4s for sale btw.
I have both cars btw and have no axe to grind either way.
boxsey said:
av185 said:
So you say GT4RS is right and yet you admit to having no idea about the GT3 market.
Riiight.
Yes GT4s sell at the right price. If they are the right spec. But to suggest they are selling 'far better' than GT3s is ridiculous especially bearing in mind many are waiting for the forthcoming 718 GT4.
911R is correct in saying GT3 prices have risen. As expected.
Lots of yellow GT4s for sale btw.
I have both cars btw and have no axe to grind either way.
I interpreted your post as saying that GT4s were not selling so pointed out that they are. I'd no idea of how that compared to GT3 sales at the time. So looks like we were at crossed purposes. I see that at the moment it's 16 x GT4 and 29 x GT3 at OPCs. Yes, there are more yellow GT4 than others but that's not surprising because the launch colour was a very popular option for those that bought them new. I have no axe grind about GT4 vs GT3 either.Riiight.
Yes GT4s sell at the right price. If they are the right spec. But to suggest they are selling 'far better' than GT3s is ridiculous especially bearing in mind many are waiting for the forthcoming 718 GT4.
911R is correct in saying GT3 prices have risen. As expected.
Lots of yellow GT4s for sale btw.
I have both cars btw and have no axe to grind either way.
But again, your OPC figures on GT4 and GT3 are misleading.
There are only 21 991.2 GT3s listed at OPCs of which 18 are PDK and only 3 'manuel.' The remainder are gen 1s.
As we have said many times the majority of these cars are odd or inappropriate or poverty spec as the best cars have already sold at the best prices between £155k and £160k. As did the 2 recently sold proper spec 'manuel' pccb clubsports which sold quickly at JZM, the red CS going to a PHer btw.
On prices generally there is little correlation between the new 718 GT4 and a 991.2 GT3. They are totally different cars aimed at different markets. And whilst the new GT4 will possibly get the 4.0 engine it will be, like the 981, a massively detuned strangled and lower revving unit compared to the GT3.
The 981 GT4s will probably stabilise price wise into Spring. Lots of yellow cars around confirm this is generally a poor seller on the GT4 (and GT3 too). The seasonal uplift will be offset somewhat by the 718 GT4 announcement.
Approaching Spring and seasonal uplift the 981 Spyder traditionally showed up to 10% price increases over the established level the last couple of years and as there are fewer proper spec cars for sale this could well be repeated despite the new models imminent announcement.
As ever, correct spec will be crucial on all these cars to command the best prices used.
av185 said:
Lots of yellow cars around confirm this is generally a poor seller on the GT4.
Totally incorrect. Lots of Yellow cars for sale NOW means that WAS a great seller - as a lot of people specced it from new - as it was the launch colour as boxsey said.
The high proportion of OPC cars is simply down to the fact that those cars have now come back up for sale, all at the same time, as PCPs end for most of the 2016 deliveries, and people trade back in hope of getting a new car.
Thats like saying White is a poor seller on the 991.1 GT3 or Guards Red on the 991.2 GT3 is a poor seller.
Hogwash.
Edited by TDT on Friday 8th February 10:27
[quote=av185]
As we have said many times the majority of these cars are odd or inappropriate or poverty spec as the best cars have already sold at the best prices between £155k and £160k. As did the 2 recently sold proper spec 'manuel' pccb clubsports which sold quickly at JZM, the red CS going to a PHer btw.
Inappropriate or poverty spec to who? I’m afraid that is your opinion not a fact.
You mention good cars selling at £155k to £160k? This also isn’t the case, good car can be bought from anywhere between 138k to £150k and these are dealer sales prices. Trade bids sell will be around £15k less.
The point I was originally trying to make is gt4 seem to be settling around the low 70k mark where as gt3 cars seem to be dropping at a rate of around £1000 per month, are people going for a gt4 as the hit will be less over time?
Would you not agree a gt4 is a lot of car for low 70k?
As we have said many times the majority of these cars are odd or inappropriate or poverty spec as the best cars have already sold at the best prices between £155k and £160k. As did the 2 recently sold proper spec 'manuel' pccb clubsports which sold quickly at JZM, the red CS going to a PHer btw.
Inappropriate or poverty spec to who? I’m afraid that is your opinion not a fact.
You mention good cars selling at £155k to £160k? This also isn’t the case, good car can be bought from anywhere between 138k to £150k and these are dealer sales prices. Trade bids sell will be around £15k less.
The point I was originally trying to make is gt4 seem to be settling around the low 70k mark where as gt3 cars seem to be dropping at a rate of around £1000 per month, are people going for a gt4 as the hit will be less over time?
Would you not agree a gt4 is a lot of car for low 70k?
TDT said:
av185 said:
Lots of yellow cars around confirm this is generally a poor seller on the GT4.
Totally incorrect. Lots of Yellow cars for sale NOW means that WAS a great seller - as a lot of people specced it from new - as it was the launch colour
Edited by TDT on Friday 8th February 10:27
Demand for a colour on a new car does not necessarily equate to the same demand used. Especially as Porsche with their masterly marketing pushed RY as the launch colour.
Racing yellow has always been slow seller used on a GT4 and GT3.
Be interesting to see how long these yellow GT4s hang around.
GT4RS]v185 said:
As we have said many times the majority of these cars are odd or inappropriate or poverty spec as the best cars have already sold at the best prices between £155k and £160k. As did the 2 recently sold proper spec 'manuel' pccb clubsports which sold quickly at JZM, the red CS going to a PHer btw.
Inappropriate or poverty spec to who? I’m afraid that is your opinion not a fact.
You mention good cars selling at £155k to £160k? This also isn’t the case, good car can be bought from anywhere between 138k to £150k and these are dealer sales prices. Trade bids sell will be around £15k less.
The point I was originally trying to make is gt4 seem to be settling around the low 70k mark where as gt3 cars seem to be dropping at a rate of around £1000 per month, are people going for a gt4 as the hit will be less over time?
Would you not agree a gt4 is a lot of car for low 70k?
£65k would be better, I might buy another then.Inappropriate or poverty spec to who? I’m afraid that is your opinion not a fact.
You mention good cars selling at £155k to £160k? This also isn’t the case, good car can be bought from anywhere between 138k to £150k and these are dealer sales prices. Trade bids sell will be around £15k less.
The point I was originally trying to make is gt4 seem to be settling around the low 70k mark where as gt3 cars seem to be dropping at a rate of around £1000 per month, are people going for a gt4 as the hit will be less over time?
Would you not agree a gt4 is a lot of car for low 70k?
GT3 with steels in manual £178k lol, thing is CS manuals with PCCB have dried up. And people who paid overs want to keep them I would say, prob circa 50 cars.
As always there is a split in prices from low spec PDK at £140k to high spec Manuals CS at £178k !!! although £160k should get you a CS PCCB manual.
ie the OPC Tonbridge car in GT silver @ £160k
£178k !! steel braked manual ! must be due to the better seats :-p
https://www.whytehallcarcollection.co.uk/used-pors...
So quoting a price on any car GT3 or GT4 is meaningless as the spread is so big due to specs.
some one tell me why the PCCB voodoo blue GT4 has not sold at £79k that's under list ! why are people paying over list for some cars !
Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 8th February 10:52
av185 said:
WAS being the operative word. As opposed to IS.
Demand for a colour on a new car does not necessarily equate to the same demand used. Especially as Porsche with their masterly marketing pushed RY as the launch colour.
Racing yellow has always been slow seller used on a GT4 and GT3.
Be interesting to see how long these yellow GT4s hang around.
Demand for a colour on a new car does not necessarily equate to the same demand used. Especially as Porsche with their masterly marketing pushed RY as the launch colour.
Racing yellow has always been slow seller used on a GT4 and GT3.
Be interesting to see how long these yellow GT4s hang around.
Spyder not a hope in **** selling a yellow one. Seems it needs to be White 1st then GT silver.
GT3 again Yellow = non seller.
Launch colours always are the best sellers new and used, the GT4 choice was slim and dull.
GT4RS.
Please look at the OPC used car locator and check the specs on the GT3s.
You seem to have a problem grasping the difference between a good and bad specced car, the white £20k premium Cardiff steel braked car you have referred to a number of times being a typical example.
Also check previous posts and threads re the 2 proper spec JZM clubsport ('manuel') GT3s (silver and red) previously referred to which sold recently quickly in the mid £150ks at £25k premiums.
This will provide you with all the information you need.
Please look at the OPC used car locator and check the specs on the GT3s.
You seem to have a problem grasping the difference between a good and bad specced car, the white £20k premium Cardiff steel braked car you have referred to a number of times being a typical example.
Also check previous posts and threads re the 2 proper spec JZM clubsport ('manuel') GT3s (silver and red) previously referred to which sold recently quickly in the mid £150ks at £25k premiums.
This will provide you with all the information you need.
av185 said:
Ok fair enough.
But again, your OPC figures on GT4 and GT3 are misleading.
Not meant to be misleading. If comparing used sales I see the GT4 as spanning between the time line of the 991.1 and 991.2 i.e. it arrived at the end of the .1 production and before the .2 arrived. Hence I didn't try to split the 991GT3 sales into .1 and .2 or manual or auto. My guess is that someone considering buying a 981GT4 is unlikely to consider a .2 GT3 because of the huge price difference. Yet, they might consider a .1 GT3 which is much less of a stretch. This of course presumes that the potential buyer has no preference towards what gearbox the car comes with. There are certainly a few examples recently of GT4 owners trading in for a .1 GT3 so I guess the gearbox is not an issue for some.But again, your OPC figures on GT4 and GT3 are misleading.
Porsche911R said:
av185 said:
WAS being the operative word. As opposed to IS.
Demand for a colour on a new car does not necessarily equate to the same demand used. Especially as Porsche with their masterly marketing pushed RY as the launch colour.
Racing yellow has always been slow seller used on a GT4 and GT3.
Be interesting to see how long these yellow GT4s hang around.
Demand for a colour on a new car does not necessarily equate to the same demand used. Especially as Porsche with their masterly marketing pushed RY as the launch colour.
Racing yellow has always been slow seller used on a GT4 and GT3.
Be interesting to see how long these yellow GT4s hang around.
Spyder not a hope in **** selling a yellow one. Seems it needs to be White 1st then GT silver.
GT3 again Yellow = non seller.
Speed yellow is worth speccing at a price.
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