Discussion
Slippydiff said:
Thanks for the kind words, the theft has proved to be a real PITA and somewhat unsettling as they sneaked into the kitchen through the open patio doors and took the keys whilst I was on the phone in the lounge next door ...
That is scaryTry not to get too paranoid now but think safety first at all times - I went a little over board with the extra security measures when I had an attempted break in recently
Its another good reason to be owning 20 year old beat up Porsches instead of modern metal which can be sold for parts
Vincent-Vega said:
With regards drawing a comparison with a 911 for feel and tactility I belive the last part you quoted was probably describing something air-cooled, maybe a 964? Not a 996. It's certainly true that a 964 or earlier air-cooled stuff will indeed meet that description but dear God do you pay a premium for it.
A 964RS which is really a slightly warmed over 964 C2 with some token weight reductions
will be setting you back somewhere in the region of £180 - £250k? 15 -20 years ago you would be lucky to have got £25 -30k for one.
Which tells you the market has spoken over the past 20 years, and considers the 964 RS something very special indeed, because it was and is. FWiW I bought my first example for £23,500 back in 2001/2. And the last example I sold in 2014/15 sold for a figure within the price bracket you alluded to.A 964RS which is really a slightly warmed over 964 C2 with some token weight reductions
will be setting you back somewhere in the region of £180 - £250k? 15 -20 years ago you would be lucky to have got £25 -30k for one.But this isn't about values, it's about weight loss. A true lightweight spec Cayman R : no aircon, no radio, Spyder wheels, "lightweight" folding carbon buckets, non PSE and PCCB's was 55kg lighter than the equivalent S. I imagine that less than 1% of UK cars were specced thus. Re-tick the A/C and music options and that 55kg reduction probably becomes closer to 35kg, or roughly the same as a tank of fuel ...
Meanwhile the "warmed over 964 C2" in the form of the oft specced 964 RS "Basic" or as they were more commonly referred to as Lightweight, lost a "token"
155kg when compared to a C2, and the rare 964 RS Touring versions lost 57kg.This Service Information Technik document runs to 30 pages and highlights every detail of the changes made to produce the 964 RS, right down to the gear lever ratio and the resultant reduction in its throw :
Not many other cars in Porsche's history have gone on such a diet, but those that did, were equally or more special.
Slippydiff said:
Which tells you the market has spoken over the past 20 years, and considers the 964 RS something very special indeed, because it was and is. FWiW I bought my first example for £23,500 back in 2001/2. And the last example I sold in 2014/15 sold for a figure within the price bracket you alluded to.
But this isn't about values, it's about weight loss. A true lightweight spec Cayman R : no aircon, no radio, Spyder wheels, "lightweight" folding carbon buckets, non PSE and PCCB's was 55kg lighter than the equivalent S. I imagine that less than 1% of UK cars were specced thus. Re-tick the A/C and music options and that 55kg reduction probably becomes closer to 35kg, or roughly the same as a tank of fuel ...
Meanwhile the "warmed over 964 C2" in the form of the oft specced 964 RS "Basic" or as they were more commonly referred to as Lightweight, lost a "token" 155kg when compared to a C2, and the rare 964 RS Touring versions lost 57kg.
This Service Information Technik document runs to 30 pages and highlights every detail of the changes made to produce the 964 RS, right down to the gear lever ratio and the resultant reduction in its throw :
Not many other cars in Porsche's history have gone on such a diet, but those that did, were equally or more special.
But this isn't about values, it's about weight loss. A true lightweight spec Cayman R : no aircon, no radio, Spyder wheels, "lightweight" folding carbon buckets, non PSE and PCCB's was 55kg lighter than the equivalent S. I imagine that less than 1% of UK cars were specced thus. Re-tick the A/C and music options and that 55kg reduction probably becomes closer to 35kg, or roughly the same as a tank of fuel ...
Meanwhile the "warmed over 964 C2" in the form of the oft specced 964 RS "Basic" or as they were more commonly referred to as Lightweight, lost a "token"
155kg when compared to a C2, and the rare 964 RS Touring versions lost 57kg.This Service Information Technik document runs to 30 pages and highlights every detail of the changes made to produce the 964 RS, right down to the gear lever ratio and the resultant reduction in its throw :
Not many other cars in Porsche's history have gone on such a diet, but those that did, were equally or more special.
I was being a little facetious there with regards the warming over and token weight reduction I admit, and your rebuttal is completely fair. I'm quite glad the Cayman R is reasonably priced as it means I can drive a rare , fun to drive and fast Porsche for sensible money in a world where everything else I would like to drive seems to be suddenly very unaffordable.
ATM said:
That is scary
Try not to get too paranoid now but think safety first at all times - I went a little over board with the extra security measures when I had an attempted break in recently
Its another good reason to be owning 20 year old beat up Porsches instead of modern metal which can be sold for parts
The BMW was 9 years old and had done 147K miles... I've a friend who's an insurance assessor, some of the stuff he tell me about car thefts that are going on currently, are enough to make to your toes curl. It seems my car was stolen to order, and as you've said, most likely for parts, or for the complete car to be shipped to Africa.Try not to get too paranoid now but think safety first at all times - I went a little over board with the extra security measures when I had an attempted break in recently
Its another good reason to be owning 20 year old beat up Porsches instead of modern metal which can be sold for parts
The Police were brilliant, I discovered the car had been stolen at 1.10am, having last seen it at 10pm. It transpired it was stolen between 10.20 and 10.30pm.
The Police attended at 2.30am, Scene of crimes were here for 9.45am and the Police were doing further door to door enquiries that afternoon at 3.00pm.
I should be moving back out into the "The Sticks" in the next 12 months, it'll be a relief to be able to go upstairs without feeling the need to close and lock all the downstairs doors and windows before I do so ...
But as you've said, additional security to both the car and the house will be the order of the day.
Vincent-Vega said:
I was being a little facetious there with regards the warming over and token weight reduction I admit, and your rebuttal is completely fair. I'm quite glad the Cayman R is reasonably priced as it means I can drive a rare , fun to drive and fast Porsche for sensible money in a world where everything else I would like to drive seems to be suddenly very unaffordable.
For me, the R's suspension was it's best facet. If you were being really picky, you could say it was bit firm at slow speeds, and slightly underdamped at "chasing 430 Scuderia" speeds, but in between those two extremes, it was hugely impressive. But it also made the car too accomplished for my needs, and I felt exactly the same about my Gen 1 997 GT3, a stunning car, but too accomplished to enjoy at sane speeds on the road.
The R's engine was a gem, and the steering was pretty good too. I detested the CF folding buckets, and wasn't a fan of the stock exhaust on the R or indeed the PSE on my Gen 3.4 S.
A good friend had a 987 Boxster Spyder in true lightweight spec and he raved about it. I'd intended to build something similar based on my Gen 2 Cayman S, but ultimately I felt I'd just be gilding the lily.
Slippydiff said:
A good friend had a 987 Boxster Spyder in true lightweight spec and he raved about it.
I'm tempted to try one of those but the roof being a bit fiddly is putting me off. My 981 roof is brilliant. You can operate it via the key from outside the car. When you get spoilt like that the thought of saving 15kg to have to mess about with bits of fabric which they call the roof seems a stretch too far.CLRs Boxster Spyder was mega light from memory.
Circa 1150kg? I’d love to have a go in that. I’d even put up with the faff of the rag top.
I think my next easiest dump of weight will be a LiFe battery in my R.
It’s got no AC, titanium exhaust, giros and few other trinkets. I really should stick it on some scales.
It’s hard to know where else I can Rob weight out of it for sensible money without altering the integrity or quality of the car.
Circa 1150kg? I’d love to have a go in that. I’d even put up with the faff of the rag top.
I think my next easiest dump of weight will be a LiFe battery in my R.
It’s got no AC, titanium exhaust, giros and few other trinkets. I really should stick it on some scales.
It’s hard to know where else I can Rob weight out of it for sensible money without altering the integrity or quality of the car.
Edited by frayz on Tuesday 12th July 11:17
The roof can be a bit fiddley but it's no big deal ,over the hot spell at the weekend I just removed the back section and left the roof part on .you can at least get into the rear without undoing the flying buttresses unlike the 981 and 718.. have had a 981 but prefer the 987 as the steering is superb feels so nimble round the twisty roads ..it gets a lot of positive comments and looks great .the 3.4 engine mated to the short shift ..you can with ease be in 6th and drive through 30 limits .It will be a keeper had it almost 10yrs.
frayz said:
I think my next easiest dump of weight will be a LiFe battery in my R.
I've been experimenting with a LiPo battery. Had it over 6 months and it works fine. I think for an occasional use car these make more sense as they will charge up quicker than a lead acid which takes time to get to full if it has been left discharging for a while. You can even use a normal Lead Acid type charger if you know what you're doing. Battery itself weighs less than a can of beer - slight exaggeration but you get the idea. Also removed the battery tray too.Any questions let me know.
ATM said:
Slippydiff said:
A good friend had a 987 Boxster Spyder in true lightweight spec and he raved about it.
I'm tempted to try one of those but the roof being a bit fiddly is putting me off. My 981 roof is brilliant. You can operate it via the key from outside the car. When you get spoilt like that the thought of saving 15kg to have to mess about with bits of fabric which they call the roof seems a stretch too far.The roof (for my usage) has so far been a non issue. It is however an occasional use car, which I suspect most of them are. As said you can just use the top section alone and not bother with the more fiddly rear section if it's only lightly raining. Looks great too!
Also pretty exclusive which adds to the appeal.
Not many rare, limited edition Porsche's around for under £75k (obvs GT4 and 981/718 Spyders apart).
It's a really, really good little sports car, possibly the best Porsche I've had so far.
Edited by MrVert on Wednesday 13th July 08:02
frayz said:
CLRs Boxster Spyder was mega light from memory.
Circa 1150kg? I’d love to have a go in that. I’d even put up with the faff of the rag top.
I had the pleasure of driving Richard's Spyder, Sep 2019, it was beautiful in how it drove! Circa 1150kg? I’d love to have a go in that. I’d even put up with the faff of the rag top.
Top bloke popped up from his old place in Traben-Trarbach while I was in the middle of a Nurburgring trackday.MrVert said:
ATM said:
Slippydiff said:
A good friend had a 987 Boxster Spyder in true lightweight spec and he raved about it.
I'm tempted to try one of those but the roof being a bit fiddly is putting me off. My 981 roof is brilliant. You can operate it via the key from outside the car. When you get spoilt like that the thought of saving 15kg to have to mess about with bits of fabric which they call the roof seems a stretch too far.The roof (for my usage) has so far been a non issue. It is however an occasional use car, which I suspect most of them are. As said you can just use the top section alone and not bother with the more fiddly rear section if it's only lightly raining. Looks great too!
Also pretty exclusive which adds to the appeal.
Not may rare, limited edition Porsche's around for under £75k (obvs GT4 and 981/718 Spyders apart).
It's a really, really good little sports car, possibly the best Porsche I've had so far.
Str6mik said:
Snap! I moved from a 981 Cayman GTS to a Boxster Spyder. Unfortunately a new business venture meant I sold the Spyder ;( I'm now in the market again and looking for a Cayman R. I loved everything about the Spyder, but just felt that I could feel that the structural rigidity was a bit lacking.
I've not thought that for an instance in nearly a year and 3k miles...and I do like to press on through the twisties 
Of all the cars I've driven, the 987 Boxster just seem to flow beautifully through the corners, great for UK B roads
Warning: the following post may contain material some find offensive.
I haven’t driven any 911 older than a 996 but I’m 99% sure I’d enjoy actually driving my Cayman R more than any 964 including the RS.
Not saying that I wouldn’t want one in my fantasy garage but kinda feel the 964 RS’s legendary status just that, legendary.
Oxford Dictionary: Legendary - “mentioned in stories from ancient times”.
Looking up contemporary road tests it’s not hard to find comments like “suspension: great on track, not suited to UK roads”. “Steering: too heavy, not the last thing in feel”.
I’ve read retrospective tests with similar comments.
Tall tales of taming handling idiosyncrasies and chassis foibles just add to the myth (string back gloves and vintage steel Rolex essential apparel).
Current values likely make them difficult to enjoy properly on the road anyway.
Beautiful looking/sounding cars, impressively engineered and certainty historically important but I reckon they’re more Porsche Tifosi fantasy w
k material than great road car.
My turn to run and hide having lit blue touch paper…
I haven’t driven any 911 older than a 996 but I’m 99% sure I’d enjoy actually driving my Cayman R more than any 964 including the RS.
Not saying that I wouldn’t want one in my fantasy garage but kinda feel the 964 RS’s legendary status just that, legendary.
Oxford Dictionary: Legendary - “mentioned in stories from ancient times”.
Looking up contemporary road tests it’s not hard to find comments like “suspension: great on track, not suited to UK roads”. “Steering: too heavy, not the last thing in feel”.
I’ve read retrospective tests with similar comments.
Tall tales of taming handling idiosyncrasies and chassis foibles just add to the myth (string back gloves and vintage steel Rolex essential apparel).
Current values likely make them difficult to enjoy properly on the road anyway.
Beautiful looking/sounding cars, impressively engineered and certainty historically important but I reckon they’re more Porsche Tifosi fantasy w
k material than great road car.My turn to run and hide having lit blue touch paper…
Slippydiff said:
I know
A good friend had a 987 Boxster Spyder in true lightweight spec and he raved about it. I'd intended to build something similar based on my Gen 2 Cayman S, but ultimately I felt I'd just be gilding the lily.
I think we share the same good friend, has he taken you for the huge pork knuckle, fries and sauerkraut? A good friend had a 987 Boxster Spyder in true lightweight spec and he raved about it. I'd intended to build something similar based on my Gen 2 Cayman S, but ultimately I felt I'd just be gilding the lily.
His 996 is quite a beast as well.
Update on my Alternator. That battery generator error message I mentioned a few weeks ago.
There are two wiring connections that go out of the alternator. The main charging wire, and a signal wire to the ECU.
With the rear panel removed, AutoFarm noticed a potential break in the wire in two places – possibly had been chaffing over the years. To make a thorough job, they have had the alternator tested and report this has come back as healthy and no action required. They have repaired the breaks in the wiring loom, refitted, test driven the once and so far, is all great with no faults. They are going to do some more tests tomorrow on a cold start and a few drives.
There are two wiring connections that go out of the alternator. The main charging wire, and a signal wire to the ECU.
With the rear panel removed, AutoFarm noticed a potential break in the wire in two places – possibly had been chaffing over the years. To make a thorough job, they have had the alternator tested and report this has come back as healthy and no action required. They have repaired the breaks in the wiring loom, refitted, test driven the once and so far, is all great with no faults. They are going to do some more tests tomorrow on a cold start and a few drives.
So I sold my CR due to getting a job that would see me in the US for a decent chunk of every year
I won’t bore you with the detail but after a painful few weeks including setting up a company so I could go self employed ( as said company couldnt employ me in U.K.), the job is not happening . A different one is though, thankfully.
So… as per the previous few pages I read with interest… what else could you buy for the money ?
My answer is I bought a Boxster GTS for £6k more than I sold my CR for.
Whilst it may have lost some driving precision, for me the 10sec roof up and down has massively added to my enjoyment across the range of journeys, and if I am being honest, living in the SE the opportunity for a hoon does not present itself that often sadly
That said, with X73 suspension, pccbs, PTV, PSE, carbon buckets and spiders it is still a properly good sports car. As well as being 3 years younger and lower miles, better interior and tech etc.
I chose a Boxster but with Cayman GTS for more or less the same money as a low miles CR you have to be a really committed “wheelsmith” to want the CR ?
I won’t bore you with the detail but after a painful few weeks including setting up a company so I could go self employed ( as said company couldnt employ me in U.K.), the job is not happening . A different one is though, thankfully.
So… as per the previous few pages I read with interest… what else could you buy for the money ?
My answer is I bought a Boxster GTS for £6k more than I sold my CR for.
Whilst it may have lost some driving precision, for me the 10sec roof up and down has massively added to my enjoyment across the range of journeys, and if I am being honest, living in the SE the opportunity for a hoon does not present itself that often sadly
That said, with X73 suspension, pccbs, PTV, PSE, carbon buckets and spiders it is still a properly good sports car. As well as being 3 years younger and lower miles, better interior and tech etc.
I chose a Boxster but with Cayman GTS for more or less the same money as a low miles CR you have to be a really committed “wheelsmith” to want the CR ?
Slippydiff said:
Vincent-Vega said:
I was being a little facetious there with regards the warming over and token weight reduction I admit, and your rebuttal is completely fair. I'm quite glad the Cayman R is reasonably priced as it means I can drive a rare , fun to drive and fast Porsche for sensible money in a world where everything else I would like to drive seems to be suddenly very unaffordable.
For me, the R's suspension was it's best facet. If you were being really picky, you could say it was bit firm at slow speeds, and slightly underdamped at "chasing 430 Scuderia" speeds, but in between those two extremes, it was hugely impressive. But it also made the car too accomplished for my needs, and I felt exactly the same about my Gen 1 997 GT3, a stunning car, but too accomplished to enjoy at sane speeds on the road.
The R's engine was a gem, and the steering was pretty good too. I detested the CF folding buckets, and wasn't a fan of the stock exhaust on the R or indeed the PSE on my Gen 3.4 S.
A good friend had a 987 Boxster Spyder in true lightweight spec and he raved about it. I'd intended to build something similar based on my Gen 2 Cayman S, but ultimately I felt I'd just be gilding the lily.
Interesting to read your posts on here - I think your reasoning is more often than not very solid.
I had one of the best Rs around before lockdown and sold it when I started to dabble in some older stuff. I did wonder if I did the right thing for a while but came to the conclusion that a 800 mile round trip to Wales in a well set up 50 year old 911 is all that a man needs. Didn't cost me much more than a top spec Cayman to boot. I've also recently ventured into the dark hole of older Japanese cars - the journey has been fun and you can debate all day about what is the more superior drive. The R was terrific but there is a lot of other terrific stuff out there if you're brave enough to try. Let's face it, none of us on here are going to be the next George Russell any time soon . I'd sooner chase feel and experience than higher speeds and quicker lap times.
My caveat is I'd still happily try to beat anyone on a go kart track though.
P.S. That blue 996 C2 you picked out a few posts up looks like a gem.
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