Discussion
swanny71 said:
Warning: the following post may contain material some find offensive.
I haven’t driven any 911 older than a 996 but I’m 99% sure I’d enjoy actually driving my Cayman R more than any 964 including the RS.
Not saying that I wouldn’t want one in my fantasy garage but kinda feel the 964 RS’s legendary status just that, legendary.
Oxford Dictionary: Legendary - “mentioned in stories from ancient times”.
Looking up contemporary road tests it’s not hard to find comments like “suspension: great on track, not suited to UK roads”. “Steering: too heavy, not the last thing in feel”.
I’ve read retrospective tests with similar comments.
Tall tales of taming handling idiosyncrasies and chassis foibles just add to the myth (string back gloves and vintage steel Rolex essential apparel).
Current values likely make them difficult to enjoy properly on the road anyway.
Beautiful looking/sounding cars, impressively engineered and certainty historically important but I reckon they’re more Porsche Tifosi fantasy w
k material than great road car.
My turn to run and hide having lit blue touch paper…
Well, as others who could have taken offence, but didn’t when responding to my comments last night/this morning, I too will say no need to run I haven’t driven any 911 older than a 996 but I’m 99% sure I’d enjoy actually driving my Cayman R more than any 964 including the RS.
Not saying that I wouldn’t want one in my fantasy garage but kinda feel the 964 RS’s legendary status just that, legendary.
Oxford Dictionary: Legendary - “mentioned in stories from ancient times”.
Looking up contemporary road tests it’s not hard to find comments like “suspension: great on track, not suited to UK roads”. “Steering: too heavy, not the last thing in feel”.
I’ve read retrospective tests with similar comments.
Tall tales of taming handling idiosyncrasies and chassis foibles just add to the myth (string back gloves and vintage steel Rolex essential apparel).
Current values likely make them difficult to enjoy properly on the road anyway.
Beautiful looking/sounding cars, impressively engineered and certainty historically important but I reckon they’re more Porsche Tifosi fantasy w
k material than great road car.My turn to run and hide having lit blue touch paper…
However ... I think rather than casting aspersions on the 964 RS, you really need to drive one, because only so much information can gleaned from the comfort of a settee with an iPad or magazine on your knee. The proof really is in the driving of a 964 RS. For what it’s worth, I’ve owned 4 of them over the years, so I have a reasonable insight as to what they’re like to own and drive.
Talk of overly hard suspension needs be taken in context, as back in 1992 the trackday scene was very much in its infancy (no real need for trackdays, as you could drive like a complete muppet on the roads and get away with it 99% of the time if you used a bit of common sense).
The 964 RS was an outlier, and as close to a Cup car for the road as you could get without going to the extremes of an N/GT or Clusport, but it also had internal competition in the shape of the 965 (964 Turbo) and IIRC the RS was slightly more expensive than the Turbo.
The cars however could not have been more different, the Turbo a continent crushing luxury GT cruiser, with soft(ish) suspension a still laggy single turbo engine, an archaic injection system and a kerb weight well in excess of the RS.
I won’t mince my words, I’ve driven a couple of them and thought they were bloody awful things, very much a “fur coat, no knickers” car. Great looking (if you like the widebody look) and I have to admit I'm not a fan, as I much prefer the lean Dr David Banner look of the narrow body cars with their wheels filling the arches to the max.
Each to their own.
Dynamically the RS is a very different kettle of fish, visceral, tactile and engaging, though with the caveat that they need to be driven on the right road.
If you want to pose on the Kings road, or nip down to the corner shop in a city centre to get milk and a paper on a Sunday morning, take your daily driver or buy a Turbo, but if the nearest shop is 30 miles away and the roads are decently maintained lightly trafficed A or B roads, there can only be one choice for the connoisseur.
I apologise for posting this summation of the RS driving experience again (I penned it in 2014) and for those of you that have read it before, feel free to ignore it and seek other, less partisan reviews.
”0-60 ? Quite frankly if that's your benchmark for what makes a car great (or not great) you most likely won't get the RS.
Overly stiff ride ? Grow a pair (it's an urban myth, so get one with decent, modern tyres (ie not ten year old Michelin MXX's) fresh dampers, sensible geo settings and ride heights, and you'll find them an absolute blast for A & B road hooning.
Build a rep on the cheap ? yep, of course it can be done, but it's the little things that make the RS. Take the aluminium bonnet for example, lift it up ('cause there's no gas struts to help you) and prop it up using the ali strut (who's end goes into a specially formed nut that doubles up as the securing nut for the strut top mount). All part of the weight saving process.
Pull on the inner door latch release pulls (formed from doubled up loops of seat belt material) feel the way they release the door latches so mechanically (then try the pastiche of the same idea on the Cayman R and feel how, as a sop to the RS, they've tried to incorporate the same idea into a door trim that wasn't designed for it (neither was the release mechanism) and feel how utterly sh*te it feels in it's action when compared to the original. It's what happens when the marketing men decree what goes into a car, rather than letting an engineer decide.
Put the dainty key into the ignition switch and turn it against the perfectly weighted spring loading of the switch. Just as your wrist starts to run out of articulation, the starter kicks in and the flat six bursts into life. If your foot isn't on the clutch, you'll hear the sound of the gears in the transmission rattling away as the lack of a dual mass flywheel (and the harmonic damping it usually provides) allows the gears to chatter excitedly within their casing.
Sit there and wait for some heat to percolate through the flat six, and soon after you'll be able to hear the thick, glutinous oil coursing through the pipes running the length of the car as the precious life blood is pumped towards the thermostat, only to be sent back to be warmed further without troubling the car's oil cooler.
Press down the floor hinged clutch pedal with it's initially awkward over-centre action, then gently palm the slightly baulky gearlever into first. Press the accelerator expecting the tardy, nee lazy, damped response most modern cars provide, and find this car's powerplant reacts instantaneously and you've just encouraged the rev counter around to 3000rpm, and not the 1200rpm you'd intended.
Try again, but being too timid, you stall it .......
Another attempt, this time you succeed as the car's low down torque aids your franky pathetic attempts to master the over-centre clutch, the hair trigger throttle response and the slightly recalcitrant cold gearbox.
Out on the open road, the oil temperature gauge shows signs of life, the gearbox becomes less baulky and the steering starts to lighten with speed.
Twenty minutes in and the engine is now nicely warmed through. Let the fun commence ......
From your gentle fifth gear cruise, change down into third and slowly depress the long travel, floor hinged throttle pedal all the way to it's stop. The induction noise hardens and increases in volume, the drivetrain grumbles as you accelerate through the rev range and the lack of dual mass flywheel creates harsh resonances in the driveline that sound more akin to a coffee grinder than the finest German engineering. But keep accelerating and they'll disappear to leave just the mechanical sound of the flat six along with it's induction noise and the cooling fan shifting vast quantities of soothing, cool air over the barrels and cylinder heads buried within the bowels of that nondescript looking engine compartment.
At 6,800 rpm in third the game’s all over and its time to start the process all over again in fourth.
A quick, gentle lift of the throttle, along with a short, quick prod of the clutch, allows you to thread the perfectly weighted, short(ish) throw, gear lever through the gate
A corner approaches, so you lift off the throttle and change down, you get back on the throttle and turn the steering wheel, initially the helm feels stodgy, heavy and unresponsive, so much so you curse the lack of power steering as the nose seems unwilling to cooperate with your request for a change in direction.
But wait, the wheel in front of you isn't the sole method of altering the car's trajectory, next time try using the brakes to keep the weight over the front wheels whilst you turn them, then carefully chose the moment to get back on the throttle (hard) to utilise both the grunt of that flat six AND the traction afforded as a result of its position over the rear wheels.
Suddenly 260hp seems more than enough to make indecently rapid progress, but more than that, you're a simply massive part of the process of going fast, you have to be, because without your guiding hand, your perfect timing, your ability to deftly come off the brakes and seamlessly reapply the throttle, this car doesn't steer, it needs, no relies, on you to manage it's imperfect weight distribution.
It's hot sweaty and noisy work in the summer, no aircon along with reduced sound and heat insulation means that a large part of the heat generated by that 3.6 litre engine finds it's way into the cabin. Soon your back will be wringing wet and that "moist" feeling is only exacerbated by the leather facings on some of the most perfectly formed bucket seats ever to grace a car. Supportive enough to enable you to retain control without having to hang onto the steering wheel, but not so all enveloping as a modern race seat.
On the right roads, driving experiences don't come much better, or indeed more intense.
And when you've had your hit of the RS, you won’t feel the need to race all the way home too, instead you'll be happy to potter at 6/10's, watching as other far more powerful cars overtake you, safe in the knowledge that despite what the manufacturers of their cars may tell them, their owners will have little or no idea what tactility, engagement and fun behind the wheel really are.
Finally you'll arrive home, hot, sweaty and possibly slightly deaf..... You'll undo your seatbelt, remove the keys from the ignition, wind your window up and step out.When you slam the door shut, two things will stand out :
Firstly the delightful noise the door makes when it closes. Partly a function of it's bank vault build quality, and partly the fact that it's unencumbered by door pockets, airbags, central locking motors, electric mirrors and windows or their switchgear.
And the second thing that will stand out when you slam the door shut ? A light, gentle, barely discernible tinkling noise...
Those that have owned and driven these wonderful cars will most likely know what this "tinkling" noise is, whilst those that think they're an overpriced, underperforming, anachronism, probably won't. But neither will they care......”
You’ll be able to garner some of the experience from the passenger seat of a well driven RS, especially by someone that can pedal an aircooled car properly, but ultimately, the only way to understand the car’s true ethos is to experience one from behind the wheel.
I’m not a massive fan of The Car Guys, but this is their pretty decent summation of the RS :
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cK2u51UaDig&t=54...
Edited by Slippydiff on Wednesday 13th July 08:44
squirdan said:
So I sold my CR due to getting a job that would see me in the US for a decent chunk of every year
I won’t bore you with the detail but after a painful few weeks including setting up a company so I could go self employed ( as said company couldnt employ me in U.K.), the job is not happening . A different one is though, thankfully.
So… as per the previous few pages I read with interest… what else could you buy for the money ?
My answer is I bought a Boxster GTS for £6k more than I sold my CR for.
Whilst it may have lost some driving precision, for me the 10sec roof up and down has massively added to my enjoyment across the range of journeys, and if I am being honest, living in the SE the opportunity for a hoon does not present itself that often sadly
That said, with X73 suspension, pccbs, PTV, PSE, carbon buckets and spiders it is still a properly good sports car. As well as being 3 years younger and lower miles, better interior and tech etc.
I chose a Boxster but with Cayman GTS for more or less the same money as a low miles CR you have to be a really committed “wheelsmith” to want the CR ?
That is one mega GTS, you've managed to find a very rare spec car there..V Nice! I won’t bore you with the detail but after a painful few weeks including setting up a company so I could go self employed ( as said company couldnt employ me in U.K.), the job is not happening . A different one is though, thankfully.
So… as per the previous few pages I read with interest… what else could you buy for the money ?
My answer is I bought a Boxster GTS for £6k more than I sold my CR for.
Whilst it may have lost some driving precision, for me the 10sec roof up and down has massively added to my enjoyment across the range of journeys, and if I am being honest, living in the SE the opportunity for a hoon does not present itself that often sadly
That said, with X73 suspension, pccbs, PTV, PSE, carbon buckets and spiders it is still a properly good sports car. As well as being 3 years younger and lower miles, better interior and tech etc.
I chose a Boxster but with Cayman GTS for more or less the same money as a low miles CR you have to be a really committed “wheelsmith” to want the CR ?
Did the exact same thing 2 years ago, similar spec (bar the buckets). The X73 suspension definitely sharpens things up and for me, it's the pick of the 981 range by a mile.
Prestonese said:
Hi Slippy
Interesting to read your posts on here - I think your reasoning is more often than not very solid.
I had one of the best Rs around before lockdown and sold it when I started to dabble in some older stuff. I did wonder if I did the right thing for a while but came to the conclusion that a 800 mile round trip to Wales in a well set up 50 year old 911 is all that a man needs. Didn't cost me much more than a top spec Cayman to boot. I've also recently ventured into the dark hole of older Japanese cars - the journey has been fun and you can debate all day about what is the more superior drive. The R was terrific but there is a lot of other terrific stuff out there if you're brave enough to try. Let's face it, none of us on here are going to be the next George Russell any time soon . I'd sooner chase feel and experience than higher speeds and quicker lap times.
My caveat is I'd still happily try to beat anyone on a go kart track though.
P.S. That blue 996 C2 you picked out a few posts up looks like a gem.
And this is the real crux of the problem the motor industry involved in building performance cars is faced with today : We all want cars to be safer, faster and cleaner, which generally means heavier, or if you want a lighter car, expensive materials and equally expensive production methods, neither of which we the general public/petrolhead really wants to pay for, nor indeed can afford. Interesting to read your posts on here - I think your reasoning is more often than not very solid.
I had one of the best Rs around before lockdown and sold it when I started to dabble in some older stuff. I did wonder if I did the right thing for a while but came to the conclusion that a 800 mile round trip to Wales in a well set up 50 year old 911 is all that a man needs. Didn't cost me much more than a top spec Cayman to boot. I've also recently ventured into the dark hole of older Japanese cars - the journey has been fun and you can debate all day about what is the more superior drive. The R was terrific but there is a lot of other terrific stuff out there if you're brave enough to try. Let's face it, none of us on here are going to be the next George Russell any time soon . I'd sooner chase feel and experience than higher speeds and quicker lap times.
My caveat is I'd still happily try to beat anyone on a go kart track though.
P.S. That blue 996 C2 you picked out a few posts up looks like a gem.
So the motor manufacturer is left with little choice but to add more power, which in turn needs a heavier (stronger) transmission and drivetrain components, larger brakes, wheels, tyres, exhausts etc etc.
I've no doubt there is a market for smaller, lighter cars : Alpine 110, Alfa 4C being prime examples, but producing them is not cheap, and a large proportion of the Alfa 4C's budget no doubt went on developing and producing the carbon monocoque, which in turn left little or no money for the drivetrain the car deserved, that being a manual gearbox allied to a normally aspirated 2.0 to 2.3 litre four pot engine producing 260-280hp. Had Alfa built such a car, it would most likely have been more expensive still, but would have sold in greater volumes. Instead Alfa elected to use an off the shelf all aluminium powerplant that compromised the car's desirability massively. Add in the poorly developed suspension geometry and for some the lack of PAS, and the car was hamstrung from the off.
So motor manufacturers stick to their usual modus operandi, that being fit a bigger/more powerful turbo engine (the only way they can get past emissions testing) and try and make the heavier end product feel more agile with variable ratio steering racks, rear wheel steering and clever chassis stability control systems.
MrVert said:
The X73 suspension definitely sharpens things up and for me, it's the pick of the 981 range by a mile.
InterestingMy 981 has the standard passive pram ride height suspension. I have been toying with the idea of upgrading it to something firmer but the best part about my 981 is it can attack rough surfaces like no other car I have owned. So now I am struggling with this dilemma. Is firmer actually an upgrade or just different?
ATM said:
MrVert said:
The X73 suspension definitely sharpens things up and for me, it's the pick of the 981 range by a mile.
InterestingMy 981 has the standard passive pram ride height suspension. I have been toying with the idea of upgrading it to something firmer but the best part about my 981 is it can attack rough surfaces like no other car I have owned. So now I am struggling with this dilemma. Is firmer actually an upgrade or just different?
One of the best handling cars i've owned and great to hustle along B roads.
ATM said:
MrVert said:
The X73 suspension definitely sharpens things up and for me, it's the pick of the 981 range by a mile.
InterestingMy 981 has the standard passive pram ride height suspension. I have been toying with the idea of upgrading it to something firmer but the best part about my 981 is it can attack rough surfaces like no other car I have owned. So now I am struggling with this dilemma. Is firmer actually an upgrade or just different?
I haven't driven one but suspect the Elise would be better too simply because of the weight.
In isolation the 981 is a terrific car but there are many flavours of ice cream.
swanny71 said:
MrVert said:
The market dictates what they're worth, they've hardly moved in 10 years really at around £40-45k for a 20k miler dependent on spec of course.
Silly low miles ones go for towards £50k and for me (and the market it seems) that's where it stops.
I've had cars worth three times the amount and none of them were any more fun on the UK roads than the R, including a GT3 and a 458.
They're not a £100k car though and I doubt ever will be.
What they are...is bloody fabulous, fun road cars.
This ^Silly low miles ones go for towards £50k and for me (and the market it seems) that's where it stops.
I've had cars worth three times the amount and none of them were any more fun on the UK roads than the R, including a GT3 and a 458.
They're not a £100k car though and I doubt ever will be.
What they are...is bloody fabulous, fun road cars.
£35k-£45k depending on spec/miles for a good one, with the odd car slightly under/over that range for poor/exceptional examples.
Can’t imagine those figures changing much in the coming years.
I’ve never known a car that attracted such protracted discussion on values, when in reality, the values haven’t really moved much for the last 9 years. The period when we saw some some hovering around £50k in an effort to inflate the market by dealers was a personal favourite.
Julian - £100k…honestly, what are you smoking mate?
There’s one for sale in a FB group at the moment, that’s £47.5k and honestly that’s priced well over any others and it’s nothing remarkable in terms of spec, mileage etc.
Prestonese said:
ATM said:
MrVert said:
The X73 suspension definitely sharpens things up and for me, it's the pick of the 981 range by a mile.
InterestingMy 981 has the standard passive pram ride height suspension. I have been toying with the idea of upgrading it to something firmer but the best part about my 981 is it can attack rough surfaces like no other car I have owned. So now I am struggling with this dilemma. Is firmer actually an upgrade or just different?
I haven't driven one but suspect the Elise would be better too simply because of the weight.
In isolation the 981 is a terrific car but there are many flavours of ice cream.
I know it’s not a manual but I didn’t actually miss it as you could be busy focusing on enjoying other areas. I honestly didn’t expect it as at the time of testing I had never owned a auto/paddle shift car.
I have been following the CR thread for years as it’s a car that has interested me but with them getting older now ownership is less likely I expect.
PaulJC84 said:
It would be interesting for more CR owners to try the A110. I test drove one and found it quite lovely.
I know it’s not a manual but I didn’t actually miss it as you could be busy focusing on enjoying other areas. I honestly didn’t expect it as at the time of testing I had never owned a auto/paddle shift car.
I have been following the CR thread for years as it’s a car that has interested me but with them getting older now ownership is less likely I expect.
I test drove one a couple of times early in 2020 (I was selling my 1M at the time).I know it’s not a manual but I didn’t actually miss it as you could be busy focusing on enjoying other areas. I honestly didn’t expect it as at the time of testing I had never owned a auto/paddle shift car.
I have been following the CR thread for years as it’s a car that has interested me but with them getting older now ownership is less likely I expect.
Love the looks and the way it went down the road was a revelation (brilliant test route from Alpine Winchester). More than quick enough, engine OK, nice interior and a real sense of driving something special/different.
That first drive was dazzling but I had a niggling doubt about auto in such a fun car (I was 100% open minded beforehand having enjoyed DCT in my old M3). Nothing wrong with the gearbox itself, clever enough and crisp ups/downs and seem to remember nice flappy paddles.
If the salesman had been a better salesman, instead of a proper petrolhead/nice guy then I might have placed a deposit anyway.
A second test drive confirmed that I personally ‘need’ 3 pedals in my weekend toy.
Brilliant little cars, I’d have bought one and likely still own it if they did a manual. To be clear I’m not moaning and fully understand why Alpine couldn’t do a manual version.
So nearly mine….
Slippydiff said:
Vincent-Vega said:
With regards drawing a comparison with a 911 for feel and tactility I belive the last part you quoted was probably describing something air-cooled, maybe a 964? Not a 996. It's certainly true that a 964 or earlier air-cooled stuff will indeed meet that description but dear God do you pay a premium for it.
A 964RS which is really a slightly warmed over 964 C2 with some token weight reductions will be setting you back somewhere in the region of £180 - £250k? 15 -20 years ago you would be lucky to have got £25 -30k for one.
Which tells you the market has spoken over the past 20 years, and considers the 964 RS something very special indeed, because it was and is. FWiW I bought my first example for £23,500 back in 2001/2. And the last example I sold in 2014/15 sold for a figure within the price bracket you alluded to.A 964RS which is really a slightly warmed over 964 C2 with some token weight reductions
will be setting you back somewhere in the region of £180 - £250k? 15 -20 years ago you would be lucky to have got £25 -30k for one.But this isn't about values, it's about weight loss. A true lightweight spec Cayman R : no aircon, no radio, Spyder wheels, "lightweight" folding carbon buckets, non PSE and PCCB's was 55kg lighter than the equivalent S. I imagine that less than 1% of UK cars were specced thus. Re-tick the A/C and music options and that 55kg reduction probably becomes closer to 35kg, or roughly the same as a tank of fuel ...
Meanwhile the "warmed over 964 C2" in the form of the oft specced 964 RS "Basic" or as they were more commonly referred to as Lightweight, lost a "token"
155kg when compared to a C2, and the rare 964 RS Touring versions lost 57kg.This Service Information Technik document runs to 30 pages and highlights every detail of the changes made to produce the 964 RS, right down to the gear lever ratio and the resultant reduction in its throw :
Not many other cars in Porsche's history have gone on such a diet, but those that did, were equally or more special.
I took mine out of storage whilst having a little fettling of the throttle bodies and throttle linkages by Redtek to get the MFI working as well as possible and it was mega. Michelin XWX's with 1075 kilos and 190bhp was just a barrel of fun ... and plenty fast enough
Of course cars have become much better than this ... but at what point did they become less fun ?
What's fascinating is how new shiny things will be 100k over list but not something you would enjoy any more on the road. Take the quote below from the GT4RS thread.
Maybe I'm just lucky that I want what I have, even though I might not have everything I want.
dashobbit said:
Went out in a 4RS at the ring
The suspension is cack, as expected - ie rock hard, similar to the 3 RS out the box. So anyone serious about tracking it at the ring will want the MR kit added
Noise… it’s very similar to a 3RS, but has a very aggressive noise on downshift. The pitch of the rasp is quite annoying. Even with a helmet I wouldn’t fancy a day tracking it without ear plugs
Gearing and extra power is obviously fantastic
As a road car - totally pointless. As a track tool - with a change of suspension it’ll be fantastic and you’ll see sub 7 BTG times possible
Now irrelevant of cost I think my Cayman R sounds a lot more fun to do a week long European tour in than a GT4RS based on this and other reviews of the car.The suspension is cack, as expected - ie rock hard, similar to the 3 RS out the box. So anyone serious about tracking it at the ring will want the MR kit added
Noise… it’s very similar to a 3RS, but has a very aggressive noise on downshift. The pitch of the rasp is quite annoying. Even with a helmet I wouldn’t fancy a day tracking it without ear plugs
Gearing and extra power is obviously fantastic
As a road car - totally pointless. As a track tool - with a change of suspension it’ll be fantastic and you’ll see sub 7 BTG times possible
Maybe I'm just lucky that I want what I have, even though I might not have everything I want.
PaulJC84 said:
It would be interesting for more CR owners to try the A110. I test drove one and found it quite lovely.
I know it’s not a manual but I didn’t actually miss it as you could be busy focusing on enjoying other areas. I honestly didn’t expect it as at the time of testing I had never owned a auto/paddle shift car.
I have been following the CR thread for years as it’s a car that has interested me but with them getting older now ownership is less likely I expect.
This is a good point - I put my name down for a GR86 because I thought it had a shot at being a new, fun to drive, manual toy. Guess I'll find out next year I know it’s not a manual but I didn’t actually miss it as you could be busy focusing on enjoying other areas. I honestly didn’t expect it as at the time of testing I had never owned a auto/paddle shift car.
I have been following the CR thread for years as it’s a car that has interested me but with them getting older now ownership is less likely I expect.
PaulJC84 said:
It would be interesting for more CR owners to try the A110. I test drove one and found it quite lovely.
I was tempted to try one but the auto only and lack of luggage space were the main problem for me. I'm not anit-auto and indeed I've driven cars I think are definitely better as auto, but they have been either much quicker or more GT car. And space wise, the way I use my Cayman it is not unusual for me to have a pile of hiking kit in it, or a load of stuff for a road trip and the 110 just doesn't offer the practicality for how I use the car. In fairness, I'd probably accept this compromise if manual was an option, but it isn't. ChrisW. said:
The summary of changes for the 993RS was similar ... but in terms of tactility and fun at really sensible speeds, how long is it since you tried a well sorted '73 2.4S or similar ?
I took mine out of storage whilst having a little fettling of the throttle bodies and throttle linkages by Redtek to get the MFI working as well as possible and it was mega. Michelin XWX's with 1075 kilos and 190bhp was just a barrel of fun ... and plenty fast enough
Of course cars have become much better than this ... but at what point did they become less fun ?
Hi Chris. Indeed, the list of 993 RS mods is just as long as that of the 964, if not longer.I took mine out of storage whilst having a little fettling of the throttle bodies and throttle linkages by Redtek to get the MFI working as well as possible and it was mega. Michelin XWX's with 1075 kilos and 190bhp was just a barrel of fun ... and plenty fast enough
Of course cars have become much better than this ... but at what point did they become less fun ?
Well it's that old chestnut again isn't it ? Define better ?
Better as in safer, more refined, quicker, kinder to the planet, more corrosion resistant ? Undoubtedly.
Fun to drive at sane speeds, visceral, tactile, engaging, require some thought and a modicum of skill to drive quickly ? I'd say not.
At what point did this happen ? I'd guess the late the 90's ? Though clearly there have been some notable exceptions since then.
The last time I drove a longhood 911 ? I'd say it was 10 years ago that I drove a 2.7 RS, but it maybe longer.
Whilst I agree the early cars and the impact bumper cars are incredibly tactile, I'm not a massive fan of them, though as kid I lusted after an SC as there were two parked close by to where I lived, and both had the Sport pack, one was light metallic blue, the other light metallic green, the blue one was my favourite, but that was only until I was sat on my bike waiting to cross a main road at a set of traffic lights, at which point a black 930 Turbo pulled up ...
Talk about mesmerized, I just stared, and stared and stared at it. When it pulled away, it stuttered quite badly, but then the motor cleared its throat, the back of the car squatted down and it took off like scalded cat. The experience remains etched in my memory to this day
remember that Ruby red manual that went for £50K
https://www.rpmspecialistcars.co.uk/cars/porsche-c...
there is another Ruby Red, this time a PDK up for sale.
https://cridfords.co.uk/listing/2011-11-porsche-ca...
https://www.rpmspecialistcars.co.uk/cars/porsche-c...
there is another Ruby Red, this time a PDK up for sale.
https://cridfords.co.uk/listing/2011-11-porsche-ca...
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