Discussion
The thing is, and I have been in a 964 RS, given the choice if an R and a 964RS were the same price and there was no profit to be made on either, I'd buy an R over the 964.
I know 964 RS's sell for what 150=250k depending on mileage and whether clubsport ngt et cetera but these are invesment numbers not driving numbers.
My pal sold his RS a few years back, 28k miles and mint to another pal who still owns it.
26 grand that went for, it's not a better car today than it was when he sold it, it's just worth more.
Still a very nice car, don't get me wrong, but 200k???
There's a lot of nice metal available in that price range.
I know 964 RS's sell for what 150=250k depending on mileage and whether clubsport ngt et cetera but these are invesment numbers not driving numbers.
My pal sold his RS a few years back, 28k miles and mint to another pal who still owns it.
26 grand that went for, it's not a better car today than it was when he sold it, it's just worth more.
Still a very nice car, don't get me wrong, but 200k???
There's a lot of nice metal available in that price range.
Budflicker said:
The thing is, and I have been in a 964 RS, given the choice if an R and a 964RS were the same price and there was no profit to be made on either, I'd buy an R over the 964.
I know 964 RS's sell for what 150=250k depending on mileage and whether clubsport ngt et cetera but these are invesment numbers not driving numbers.
My pal sold his RS a few years back, 28k miles and mint to another pal who still owns it.
26 grand that went for, it's not a better car today than it was when he sold it, it's just worth more.
Still a very nice car, don't get me wrong, but 200k???
There's a lot of nice metal available in that price range.
I know what you mean, but there is something beautifully raw and analogue about the 964 RS. I know 964 RS's sell for what 150=250k depending on mileage and whether clubsport ngt et cetera but these are invesment numbers not driving numbers.
My pal sold his RS a few years back, 28k miles and mint to another pal who still owns it.
26 grand that went for, it's not a better car today than it was when he sold it, it's just worth more.
Still a very nice car, don't get me wrong, but 200k???
There's a lot of nice metal available in that price range.
That said, they're so damn stiff that I'd want to trailer it to the track and never drive it on British roads
Budflicker said:
The thing is, and I have been in a 964 RS, given the choice of an R and a 964RS were the same price and there was no profit to be made on either, I'd buy an R over the 964.
I sat in the drivers seat of a Carrera GT once and made brum brum noises, haven't got the faintest idea what it felt like to drive mind ...The 964 RS however, well I can tell you a bit about them, albeit at the risk of repeating myself ... (you'll no doubt be aware that I briefly dipped my toe in to Cayman R ownership this time last year too)
For the sake of context, this was written in response to a comment on a UK forum about an 964 RS selling at a European auction for £220,000 ($287,000) back in 2014 whereby another forum contributor stated the RS couldn't be worth 55 times more than a £44,000 ($57,000) Boxster.
"55 times better than a Boxster ? That depends on the criteria you're judging them by. They're 55 times more rare, of that I'm certain. And that, I suspect, counts for a lot.
I'd say they're 55 times more engaging, tactile and "special" to drive than any Boxster too.
0-60 ? Quite frankly if that's your benchmark for what makes a car great (or not great) you most likely won't get the RS.
Overly stiff ride ? Grow a f*cking pair (it's an urban myth, so get one with decent, modern tyres (ie not ten year old Michelin MXX's) fresh dampers, sensible geo settings and ride heights, and you'll find them an absolute blast for A & B road hooning.
Build a rep on the cheap ? yep, course it can be done, but it's the little things that make these cars more than the sum of their parts. Take the ali bonnet for example, lift it up ('cause there's no gas struts to assist you) prop it up using the aluminium strut (who's end goes into a specially formed nut that doubles up as the securing nut for the strut top mount).
Pull on the inner door latch release pulls (formed from doubled up loops of seat belt material) feel the way they release the door latches so mechanically (then try the pastiche of the same idea on the Cayman R and feel how, as a sop to the RS, they've tried to incorporate the same idea into a door trim that wasn't designed for it (neither was the release mechanism) and feel how utterly sh*t it feels in it's action when compared to the original. It's what happens when the marketing men decree what goes into a car, rather than letting an engineer decide.
Put the dainty key into the ignition switch and turn it against the perfectly weighted spring loading of the switch. Just as your wrist starts to run out of articulation, the starter kicks in and the flat six bursts into life. If your foot isn't on the clutch, you'll hear the sound of the gears in the transmission rattling away as the lack of a dual mass flywheel (and the harmonic damping it usually provides) allows the gears to chatter excitedly within their casing.
Sit there and wait for some heat to percolate through the flat six, and soon after you'll be able to hear the thick, glutinous oil coursing through the pipes running the length of the car as the precious life blood is pumped towards the thermostat, only to be sent back to be warmed further without troubling the car's oil cooler.
Press down the floor hinged clutch pedal with it's initially awkward over-centre action, then gently palm the slightly baulky gearlever into first. Press the accelerator expecting the tardy, nee lazy, damped response most modern cars provide, and find this car's powerplant reacts instantaneously and you've just encouraged the rev counter around to 3000rpm, and not the 1200rpm you'd intended.
Try again, but being too timid, you stall it .......
Another attempt, this time you succeed as the car's low down torque aids your franky pathetic attempts to master the over-centre clutch, the hair trigger throttle response and the recalcitrant gearbox.
Out on the open road, the oil temperature gauge shows signs of life, the gearbox becomes less baulky and the steeringstarts to lighten with speed.
Twenty minutes in and the engine is now nicely warmed through. Let the fun commence ......
From your gentle fifth gear cruise, change down into third and slowly depress the long travel, floor hinged throttle pedal all the way to it's stop. The induction noise hardens and increases in volume, the drivetrain grumbles as you accelerate through the rev range and the lack of dual mass flywheel creates harsh resonances that sound more akin to a coffee grinder. But keep accelerating and they'll disappear to leave just the mechanical sound of the flat six along with it's induction noise and the cooling fan shifting vast quantities of soothing, cool air over the barrels and cylinder heads buried within the bowels of that nondescript looking engine compartment.
At 6,800 rpm in third the game's all over and its time to start the process all over again in fourth.
A quick, gentle lift of the throttle, along with a short, quick prod of the clutch, allows you to thread the perfectly weighted, short(ish) throw, gear lever through the gate.
A corner approaches, so you lift off the throttle and change down, you get back on the throttle and turn the steeringwheel, initially the helm feels stodgy, heavy and unresponsive, you curse the lack of power steering (LHD cars only) as the nose seems unwilling to cooperate with your request for a change in direction.
But wait, the wheel in front of you isn't the sole method of altering the car's trajectory, next time try using the brakes to keep the weight over the front wheels whilst you turn them, then carefully chose the moment to get back on the throttle (hard) to utilise both the grunt of that flat six AND the traction afforded as a result of its position over the rear wheels.
Suddenly 260hp seems more than enough to make indecently rapid progress, but more than that, you're a simply massive part of the process of going fast, you have to be, because without your guiding hand, your perfect timing, your ability to deftly come off the brakes and seamlessly reapply the throttle, this car doesn't steer, it needs, no relies, on you to manage it's imperfect weight distribution.
It's hot sweaty work in the summer, no aircon along with no insulation means that a large part of the heat generated by that 3.6 litre engine finds it's way into the cabin. Soon your back will be wringing wet and that "moist" feeling is only exacerbated by the leather facings on some of the most perfectly formed bucket seats ever to grace a car. Supportive enough to enable you to retain control without having to hang onto the steeringwheel, but not so all enveloping as modern race seats.
On the right roads, driving experiences don't come much better, or indeed more intense.
And when you've had your "hit" of the RS, you won't feel the need to race home too, instead you'll be happy to potter at 6/10's, watching as other far more powerful cars overtake you, safe in the knowledge that despite what the manufacturers of their cars may tell them, their owners will have little or no idea what tactility, engagement and fun behind the wheel really are.
Finally you'll arrive home, hot, sweaty and possibly slightly deaf..... You'll undo your seatbelt, remove the keys from the ignition, wind your window up and step out.When you slam the door shut, two things will stand out :
Firstly the delightful noise the door makes when it closes. Partly a function of it's bank vault build quality, and partly the fact that it's unencumbered by door pockets, airbags, central locking motors, electric windows or their switchgear.
And the second thing that will stand out when you slam the door shut ? A light, gentle, barely discernible tinkling noise...... wink
Those that have owned and driven these wonderful cars will most likely know what this "tinkling" noise is, whilst those that think they're an overpriced, underperforming, anachronism, probably won't. But neither will they care........"
And there's this to further explain why old air cooled metal is sooo appealing to many :
"To me, as an averagely talented road car driver it's that very 'analogue', unfiltered feedback from the controls that gives me the warm glow of satisfaction that comes with handling something so obviously mechanical, a machine rather than a slick consumer product.
Like all the nuances in the soundtrack of a truly great engine and the way you can almost feel the cogs separating and engaging in a good manual shift gearbox, all the tiny movements of the steering wheel in your hands, telegraphing what's going on between tyres and road surface beyond a simple message of 'grip/no grip' that enrichen and enliven the experience.
It's why classics and some low-volume specials can get under ones skin so much more easily than arguably vastly superior machinery.
It doesn't make me any faster. It doesn't make me any more confident (given the constraints of road driving, either is probably A Good Thing). But it does make me happier"
Regrettably the words above aren't my own, I only wish they were.
You don’t need to convince me of how special a 964 RS is, the attention to detail in that car, where every little thing was done to enhance the visceral experience of driving it has arguably not been matched by Porsche since. And in no way was I comparing the purity, rarity or specialness of that car with the Cayman R, I was simply using it as an example of why not having air conditioning isn’t necessarily a bad thing :-)
As for the stiff and uncompromising ride, the ones I’ve been down B roads in were a bit jittery thanks in no small part to the seam welding I imagine. But on the right roads or a track, they are sublime machines.
As for the question raised above, though, I don’t understand how £220,000 is 55 times more than £44,000, or am I missing something?
As for the stiff and uncompromising ride, the ones I’ve been down B roads in were a bit jittery thanks in no small part to the seam welding I imagine. But on the right roads or a track, they are sublime machines.
As for the question raised above, though, I don’t understand how £220,000 is 55 times more than £44,000, or am I missing something?
I took out a really nice 964RS from auto farm when they were £38k and over priced at that, it did not make for a very nice road car, I ended up the bmw CSL at £38k back then.
I would like a hot rod home build 964 though at less than 1/2 the price of the RS still trying to hint at ago in Steve Rances car :-)
I would like a hot rod home build 964 though at less than 1/2 the price of the RS still trying to hint at ago in Steve Rances car :-)
"55 times better than a Boxster ? That depends on the criteria you're judging them by. They're 55 times more rare, of that I'm certain. And that, I suspect, counts for a lot.
I'd say they're 55 times more engaging, tactile and "special" to drive than any Boxster too.
0-60 ? Quite frankly if that's your benchmark for what makes a car great (or not great) you most likely won't get the RS.
Overly stiff ride ? Grow a f*cking pair (it's an urban myth, so get one with decent, modern tyres (ie not ten year old Michelin MXX's) fresh dampers, sensible geo settings and ride heights, and you'll find them an absolute blast for A & B road hooning.
Build a rep on the cheap ? yep, course it can be done, but it's the little things that make these cars more than the sum of their parts. Take the ali bonnet for example, lift it up ('cause there's no gas struts to assist you) prop it up using the aluminium strut (who's end goes into a specially formed nut that doubles up as the securing nut for the strut top mount).
Pull on the inner door latch release pulls (formed from doubled up loops of seat belt material) feel the way they release the door latches so mechanically (then try the pastiche of the same idea on the Cayman R and feel how, as a sop to the RS, they've tried to incorporate the same idea into a door trim that wasn't designed for it (neither was the release mechanism) and feel how utterly sh*t it feels in it's action when compared to the original. It's what happens when the marketing men decree what goes into a car, rather than letting an engineer decide.
Put the dainty key into the ignition switch and turn it against the perfectly weighted spring loading of the switch. Just as your wrist starts to run out of articulation, the starter kicks in and the flat six bursts into life. If your foot isn't on the clutch, you'll hear the sound of the gears in the transmission rattling away as the lack of a dual mass flywheel (and the harmonic damping it usually provides) allows the gears to chatter excitedly within their casing.
Sit there and wait for some heat to percolate through the flat six, and soon after you'll be able to hear the thick, glutinous oil coursing through the pipes running the length of the car as the precious life blood is pumped towards the thermostat, only to be sent back to be warmed further without troubling the car's oil cooler.
Press down the floor hinged clutch pedal with it's initially awkward over-centre action, then gently palm the slightly baulky gearlever into first. Press the accelerator expecting the tardy, nee lazy, damped response most modern cars provide, and find this car's powerplant reacts instantaneously and you've just encouraged the rev counter around to 3000rpm, and not the 1200rpm you'd intended.
Try again, but being too timid, you stall it .......
Another attempt, this time you succeed as the car's low down torque aids your franky pathetic attempts to master the over-centre clutch, the hair trigger throttle response and the recalcitrant gearbox.
Out on the open road, the oil temperature gauge shows signs of life, the gearbox becomes less baulky and the steeringstarts to lighten with speed.
Twenty minutes in and the engine is now nicely warmed through. Let the fun commence ......
From your gentle fifth gear cruise, change down into third and slowly depress the long travel, floor hinged throttle pedal all the way to it's stop. The induction noise hardens and increases in volume, the drivetrain grumbles as you accelerate through the rev range and the lack of dual mass flywheel creates harsh resonances that sound more akin to a coffee grinder. But keep accelerating and they'll disappear to leave just the mechanical sound of the flat six along with it's induction noise and the cooling fan shifting vast quantities of soothing, cool air over the barrels and cylinder heads buried within the bowels of that nondescript looking engine compartment.
At 6,800 rpm in third the game's all over and its time to start the process all over again in fourth.
A quick, gentle lift of the throttle, along with a short, quick prod of the clutch, allows you to thread the perfectly weighted, short(ish) throw, gear lever through the gate.
A corner approaches, so you lift off the throttle and change down, you get back on the throttle and turn the steeringwheel, initially the helm feels stodgy, heavy and unresponsive, you curse the lack of power steering (LHD cars only) as the nose seems unwilling to cooperate with your request for a change in direction.
But wait, the wheel in front of you isn't the sole method of altering the car's trajectory, next time try using the brakes to keep the weight over the front wheels whilst you turn them, then carefully chose the moment to get back on the throttle (hard) to utilise both the grunt of that flat six AND the traction afforded as a result of its position over the rear wheels.
Suddenly 260hp seems more than enough to make indecently rapid progress, but more than that, you're a simply massive part of the process of going fast, you have to be, because without your guiding hand, your perfect timing, your ability to deftly come off the brakes and seamlessly reapply the throttle, this car doesn't steer, it needs, no relies, on you to manage it's imperfect weight distribution.
It's hot sweaty work in the summer, no aircon along with no insulation means that a large part of the heat generated by that 3.6 litre engine finds it's way into the cabin. Soon your back will be wringing wet and that "moist" feeling is only exacerbated by the leather facings on some of the most perfectly formed bucket seats ever to grace a car. Supportive enough to enable you to retain control without having to hang onto the steeringwheel, but not so all enveloping as modern race seats.
On the right roads, driving experiences don't come much better, or indeed more intense.
And when you've had your "hit" of the RS, you won't feel the need to race home too, instead you'll be happy to potter at 6/10's, watching as other far more powerful cars overtake you, safe in the knowledge that despite what the manufacturers of their cars may tell them, their owners will have little or no idea what tactility, engagement and fun behind the wheel really are.
Finally you'll arrive home, hot, sweaty and possibly slightly deaf..... You'll undo your seatbelt, remove the keys from the ignition, wind your window up and step out.When you slam the door shut, two things will stand out :
Firstly the delightful noise the door makes when it closes. Partly a function of it's bank vault build quality, and partly the fact that it's unencumbered by door pockets, airbags, central locking motors, electric windows or their switchgear.
And the second thing that will stand out when you slam the door shut ? A light, gentle, barely discernible tinkling noise...... wink
Those that have owned and driven these wonderful cars will most likely know what this "tinkling" noise is, whilst those that think they're an overpriced, underperforming, anachronism, probably won't. But neither will they care........"
And there's this to further explain why old air cooled metal is sooo appealing to many :
"To me, as an averagely talented road car driver it's that very 'analogue', unfiltered feedback from the controls that gives me the warm glow of satisfaction that comes with handling something so obviously mechanical, a machine rather than a slick consumer product.
Like all the nuances in the soundtrack of a truly great engine and the way you can almost feel the cogs separating and engaging in a good manual shift gearbox, all the tiny movements of the steering wheel in your hands, telegraphing what's going on between tyres and road surface beyond a simple message of 'grip/no grip' that enrichen and enliven the experience.
It's why classics and some low-volume specials can get under ones skin so much more easily than arguably vastly superior machinery.
It doesn't make me any faster. It doesn't make me any more confident (given the constraints of road driving, either is probably A Good Thing). But it does make me happier"
Regrettably the words above aren't my own, I only wish they were.
[/quote]
As a former 64RS and R owner I'm with Slippy on this, an R is way behind the 64RS in terms of engagement, tactility and enjoyment. Although at £50k I do concede the R is a good package
[quote=Slippydiff]
I'd say they're 55 times more engaging, tactile and "special" to drive than any Boxster too.
0-60 ? Quite frankly if that's your benchmark for what makes a car great (or not great) you most likely won't get the RS.
Overly stiff ride ? Grow a f*cking pair (it's an urban myth, so get one with decent, modern tyres (ie not ten year old Michelin MXX's) fresh dampers, sensible geo settings and ride heights, and you'll find them an absolute blast for A & B road hooning.
Build a rep on the cheap ? yep, course it can be done, but it's the little things that make these cars more than the sum of their parts. Take the ali bonnet for example, lift it up ('cause there's no gas struts to assist you) prop it up using the aluminium strut (who's end goes into a specially formed nut that doubles up as the securing nut for the strut top mount).
Pull on the inner door latch release pulls (formed from doubled up loops of seat belt material) feel the way they release the door latches so mechanically (then try the pastiche of the same idea on the Cayman R and feel how, as a sop to the RS, they've tried to incorporate the same idea into a door trim that wasn't designed for it (neither was the release mechanism) and feel how utterly sh*t it feels in it's action when compared to the original. It's what happens when the marketing men decree what goes into a car, rather than letting an engineer decide.
Put the dainty key into the ignition switch and turn it against the perfectly weighted spring loading of the switch. Just as your wrist starts to run out of articulation, the starter kicks in and the flat six bursts into life. If your foot isn't on the clutch, you'll hear the sound of the gears in the transmission rattling away as the lack of a dual mass flywheel (and the harmonic damping it usually provides) allows the gears to chatter excitedly within their casing.
Sit there and wait for some heat to percolate through the flat six, and soon after you'll be able to hear the thick, glutinous oil coursing through the pipes running the length of the car as the precious life blood is pumped towards the thermostat, only to be sent back to be warmed further without troubling the car's oil cooler.
Press down the floor hinged clutch pedal with it's initially awkward over-centre action, then gently palm the slightly baulky gearlever into first. Press the accelerator expecting the tardy, nee lazy, damped response most modern cars provide, and find this car's powerplant reacts instantaneously and you've just encouraged the rev counter around to 3000rpm, and not the 1200rpm you'd intended.
Try again, but being too timid, you stall it .......
Another attempt, this time you succeed as the car's low down torque aids your franky pathetic attempts to master the over-centre clutch, the hair trigger throttle response and the recalcitrant gearbox.
Out on the open road, the oil temperature gauge shows signs of life, the gearbox becomes less baulky and the steeringstarts to lighten with speed.
Twenty minutes in and the engine is now nicely warmed through. Let the fun commence ......
From your gentle fifth gear cruise, change down into third and slowly depress the long travel, floor hinged throttle pedal all the way to it's stop. The induction noise hardens and increases in volume, the drivetrain grumbles as you accelerate through the rev range and the lack of dual mass flywheel creates harsh resonances that sound more akin to a coffee grinder. But keep accelerating and they'll disappear to leave just the mechanical sound of the flat six along with it's induction noise and the cooling fan shifting vast quantities of soothing, cool air over the barrels and cylinder heads buried within the bowels of that nondescript looking engine compartment.
At 6,800 rpm in third the game's all over and its time to start the process all over again in fourth.
A quick, gentle lift of the throttle, along with a short, quick prod of the clutch, allows you to thread the perfectly weighted, short(ish) throw, gear lever through the gate.
A corner approaches, so you lift off the throttle and change down, you get back on the throttle and turn the steeringwheel, initially the helm feels stodgy, heavy and unresponsive, you curse the lack of power steering (LHD cars only) as the nose seems unwilling to cooperate with your request for a change in direction.
But wait, the wheel in front of you isn't the sole method of altering the car's trajectory, next time try using the brakes to keep the weight over the front wheels whilst you turn them, then carefully chose the moment to get back on the throttle (hard) to utilise both the grunt of that flat six AND the traction afforded as a result of its position over the rear wheels.
Suddenly 260hp seems more than enough to make indecently rapid progress, but more than that, you're a simply massive part of the process of going fast, you have to be, because without your guiding hand, your perfect timing, your ability to deftly come off the brakes and seamlessly reapply the throttle, this car doesn't steer, it needs, no relies, on you to manage it's imperfect weight distribution.
It's hot sweaty work in the summer, no aircon along with no insulation means that a large part of the heat generated by that 3.6 litre engine finds it's way into the cabin. Soon your back will be wringing wet and that "moist" feeling is only exacerbated by the leather facings on some of the most perfectly formed bucket seats ever to grace a car. Supportive enough to enable you to retain control without having to hang onto the steeringwheel, but not so all enveloping as modern race seats.
On the right roads, driving experiences don't come much better, or indeed more intense.
And when you've had your "hit" of the RS, you won't feel the need to race home too, instead you'll be happy to potter at 6/10's, watching as other far more powerful cars overtake you, safe in the knowledge that despite what the manufacturers of their cars may tell them, their owners will have little or no idea what tactility, engagement and fun behind the wheel really are.
Finally you'll arrive home, hot, sweaty and possibly slightly deaf..... You'll undo your seatbelt, remove the keys from the ignition, wind your window up and step out.When you slam the door shut, two things will stand out :
Firstly the delightful noise the door makes when it closes. Partly a function of it's bank vault build quality, and partly the fact that it's unencumbered by door pockets, airbags, central locking motors, electric windows or their switchgear.
And the second thing that will stand out when you slam the door shut ? A light, gentle, barely discernible tinkling noise...... wink
Those that have owned and driven these wonderful cars will most likely know what this "tinkling" noise is, whilst those that think they're an overpriced, underperforming, anachronism, probably won't. But neither will they care........"
And there's this to further explain why old air cooled metal is sooo appealing to many :
"To me, as an averagely talented road car driver it's that very 'analogue', unfiltered feedback from the controls that gives me the warm glow of satisfaction that comes with handling something so obviously mechanical, a machine rather than a slick consumer product.
Like all the nuances in the soundtrack of a truly great engine and the way you can almost feel the cogs separating and engaging in a good manual shift gearbox, all the tiny movements of the steering wheel in your hands, telegraphing what's going on between tyres and road surface beyond a simple message of 'grip/no grip' that enrichen and enliven the experience.
It's why classics and some low-volume specials can get under ones skin so much more easily than arguably vastly superior machinery.
It doesn't make me any faster. It doesn't make me any more confident (given the constraints of road driving, either is probably A Good Thing). But it does make me happier"
Regrettably the words above aren't my own, I only wish they were.
[/quote]
As a former 64RS and R owner I'm with Slippy on this, an R is way behind the 64RS in terms of engagement, tactility and enjoyment. Although at £50k I do concede the R is a good package
[quote=Slippydiff]
Slippydiff said:
I sat in the drivers seat of a Carrera GT once and made brum brum noises, haven't got the faintest idea what it felt like to drive mind ...
Bit snarky Henry? Had a glass of wine last night did we
For the record my time in a 964 was spent lapping Silverstone Grand Prix circuit before the international was opened.
frayz said:
I read about 1/10th of that post before I gave up.
I have no idea why there is such focus on a 964RS, yet I know that it’s lack of AC doesn’t make it an inferior or lesser appreciating car to a 964 with AC.
The end.
Your loss frayz (and why I now feel soooo much better about having sent the Cayman R brochures to Chris !!!) I have no idea why there is such focus on a 964RS, yet I know that it’s lack of AC doesn’t make it an inferior or lesser appreciating car to a 964 with AC.
The end.
(I'm kidding, you were just too slow)
MDT48 said:
You don’t need to convince me of how special a 964 RS is, the attention to detail in that car, where every little thing was done to enhance the visceral experience of driving it has arguably not been matched by Porsche since. And in no way was I comparing the purity, rarity or specialness of that car with the Cayman R, I was simply using it as an example of why not having air conditioning isn’t necessarily a bad thing :-)
As for the stiff and uncompromising ride, the ones I’ve been down B roads in were a bit jittery thanks in no small part to the seam welding I imagine. But on the right roads or a track, they are sublime machines.
As for the question raised above, though, I don’t understand how £220,000 is 55 times more than £44,000, or am I missing something?
I wasn't trying to convince you of anything As for the stiff and uncompromising ride, the ones I’ve been down B roads in were a bit jittery thanks in no small part to the seam welding I imagine. But on the right roads or a track, they are sublime machines.
As for the question raised above, though, I don’t understand how £220,000 is 55 times more than £44,000, or am I missing something?
My post was aimed solely at the Budflicker, who read and accepted it in the manner it was intended As for aircon, I'm with you, not once did it detract from the ownership experience of any of my 964 RS's, nor my 993 RS. But the contributors to various threads on here stating they "couldn't own a car without A/C" show how the buying demographic has changed and what a limp wristed, mincer your average Porsche owner is now
I can just imagine some of the current 991 GT3/RS owners contacting Porsche Motorsport back in '73 to order a 2.7 RS with M491 option (2.8 RSR to the uninitiated) and stating they'd like to tick the option box for air conditioning if possible ...
The comment about the RS being worth 55 times more than a Boxster, reflected what an early 2.5 Boxster could be picked up for back at the peak of RS prices 4 years ago. I merely joined the thread after an individual who's no doubt never sat in a 964 RS (let alone driven one) spouted some nonsense about a £4K Boxster being a viable alternative to a 964 RS.
His inane drivel starts on this page :
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
The seam welding has nothing to do with how the car behaves on less than perfectly surfaced roads. The extent of the seam welding can be found via my link in this thread here :
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
(as can the images of what a properly seam welded 911 shell looks like
The issue with the 964 RS was the uniball top mounts used in the front supension, along with the overly stiff front dampers, additionally many had poor geometry set ups, plus the fact the Germans liked to slam them to the deck, add in dampers that get harder with age (yes, really) and you end up with a car that can feel somewhat lively on less than perfect road surfaces.
Fit new (or better still, 993 RS) front dampers, raise the suspension to the maximum factory spec and fit new modern, tyres along with a sensible geo and you'll have the most wonderful driving experience (not fast by Cayman R standards) but the level of feedback, tactility and engagement makes the Cayman R feel like copulating with a wellington boot over your genitals....
Budflicker said:
Slippydiff said:
I sat in the drivers seat of a Carrera GT once and made brum brum noises, haven't got the faintest idea what it felt like to drive mind ...
Bit snarky Henry? Had a glass of wine last night did weFor the record my time in a 964 was spent lapping Silverstone Grand Prix circuit before the international was opened.
Wasn't meant to be snarky
just wasn't sure if you'd driven or been passenger in the RS ? They are a truly sublime drive, not that quick, though pedalled by someone who knows what they're doing, they can still mix it with some of the contemporary stuff. If you want the perfect blend of a "modern" air cooled 911 twice distilled, in an out-of-the-box, factory package, the 964 RS is THE car to experience it in.
Plenty won't get them, so David stating it wasn't for him, comes as NO surprise at all, they are definitely an acquired taste, but then he went and bought a CSL, so that tells you his mindset at the time ... (and as a former owner, I'm a massive advocate of one of BMW's finest cars to date)
As I said in my "eulogy", you can build a rep, but with values of nice, non-sunroof, LHD C2's now rising, building a rep that genuinely feels like the real thing, is neither a cheap or easy undertaking (and believe you me, I've toyed with the idea on numerous occasions since letting this go) ...
Porsche911R said:
I took out a really nice 964RS from auto farm when they were £38k and over priced at that, it did not make for a very nice road car, I ended up the bmw CSL at £38k back then.
I would like a hot rod home build 964 though at less than 1/2 the price of the RS still trying to hint at ago in Steve Rances car :-)
I think you'll find there's an unwritten "code" amongst 964 RS and modified 964 owners David, they prefer to keep the great unwashed, unwashed I would like a hot rod home build 964 though at less than 1/2 the price of the RS still trying to hint at ago in Steve Rances car :-)
I think you'd find a 996 GT3 would be a happy compromise for your needs these days ...
Gassing Station | Boxster/Cayman | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff