718 review - test drove today

[Pinball]

I often wonder how these threads will look in fifteen years time when everything is electric and we look back on the halcyon days of the four cylinder 718. Most likely we'll have no gearboxes either, so manual and PDK fans can lament in equal measure 🙃

[Mario149]

bcr5784 said:

Back to topic. Ignoring noise for a second (which I cannot understand why all can't agree is entirely subjective and therefore cannot be a matter of rationale debate) - as far as I am concerned both the 981's hole in the midrange between 2500 and 4000 AND the lag of the 718 are significant flaws. As it happens I find the lag (compounded by my subjective noise views) as the more signicant. I can, however, understand why others might have a different bias.

Am I being unreasonably reasonable?.

The low-mid range flat spot on the 981 S/GTS cars never really bothered me too much. If anything I suspect it actually felt worse than it was simply because the engine was unnecessarily torquey at 2500rpm. If they dropped the torque figure at 2500rpm by 5% and "smoothed" the curve, you'd have a nice steady increase from 1500 rpm to 4000 at which point it would properly lift off. Truth be told, if I had to pick a hole in the engine (and to coin a phrase, we're deep into fine detail here) it would be the last few n-ths at the top of the rev range. I like max power to be developed as close to max revs as possible and be building strongly all the way. The Boxster engine hits max power at 6700rpm from memory, and the Cayman in theory at 7400rpm, but in the latter the increase is barely a few bhp over that additional 700rpm.

Conversely, my 997 GTS absolutely crashes into its 7500rpm redline and feels like it should have another 1k rpm to go at least. Ditto my Wayne Schofield-ed 993 NVR - 296bhp and giving it the full potatoes from 3k rpm when it lifts off, to max power at 6.5k rpm a couple of hundred revs before the redline, is magic and makes me grin like a naughty child every time. It's actually more fun to rev out than my 997 GTS as that ironically almost has too much low down grunt so you don't get to appreciate the engine's crescendo as much!

Absolute power almost has nothing to do with it, it's just the way it builds and teases you, begging you to give it more and then rewarding you when you do.

[pete.g]

bcr5784 said:

pete.g said:

My issue isn't with the relative acceleration/speed of 981 vs 718, it is with the phrase 'real world' - what other one is there?

If you mean ordinary, mundane, day to day (or quotidian to be a bit of a show-off), then say so.

I think you are being a bit pickey. In day to day motoring (I'd tend to use the term "real world" too) most people don't go around in the lowest gear possible. So if, for example, you were following a queue of cars (very real world situation) and you come around a corner and an overtaking opportunity presents itself, you will be more likely to be able to use it if you don't have to change down, particularly as this will often involve a cross plane change into 2nd with an NA manual car.

I agree - I only left the post up for a few minutes, but then deleted it after having a word with myself. It's an expression I dislike, but I wasn't adding anything to the discussion so deleted it.

[bcr5784]

Mario149 said:

The low-mid range flat spot on the 981 S/GTS cars never really bothered me too much. If anything I suspect it actually felt worse than it was simply because the engine was unnecessarily torquey at 2500rpm. If they dropped the torque figure at 2500rpm by 5% and "smoothed" the curve, you'd have a nice steady increase from 1500 rpm to 4000 at which point it would properly lift off. Truth be told, if I had to pick a hole in the engine (and to coin a phrase, we're deep into fine detail here) it would be the last few n-ths at the top of the rev range. I like max power to be developed as close to max revs as possible and be building strongly all the way. The Boxster engine hits max power at 6700rpm from memory, and the Cayman in theory at 7400rpm, but in the latter the increase is barely a few bhp over that additional 700rpm.


Absolute power almost has nothing to do with it, it's just the way it builds and teases you, begging you to give it more and then rewarding you when you do.

I agree with much of that. The trouble (subjectively for me) with the 981 engine is that has a bit of Jekyll and Hyde character - a soft pleasant but unremarkable character up to 3500 or so but over really comes alive until over 4000. And as you say, over 6500 it's quite flat (strange that turbo haters criticise the 718 whose power curve differs not that much in SHAPE at that level (though it's at a higher level).

[Twinfan]

To follow on from my first impressions, I've just been out for a 90 minute drive with Mrs Twinfan in the 718S.

We had the roof down and I could then hear the difference better between PSE off or on. It's more noticeable than I originally thought, and there are more pops/bangs/crackles with it on. I can see why you might spec it now and it does make the engine sound more interesting. I chose to leave it on.

The car is quick, especially if you use the Sport Response button. Very quick. Lag is noticeable at lower revs, less so as they rise and the boost builds. For me it was like driving a very powerful turbo diesel though and at no point did I enjoy it, especially not revving it out - it just wasn't a pleasant experience. I also found it very jerky and it has lost all the smoothness of the flat six. IMHO it's an agricultural sledgehammer.

The quicker steering is handy in built up areas but you lose some of the 981's finesse and accuracy when out in the wise open sweepy bits. Win some, lose some.

The sound. At one point I was booting the throttle to compare PSE on versus off and Mrs Twinfan piped up with "Just stop it". At low revs when crawling through town it was an embarrassment, to us it was as if the engine was broken! She even commented "I hate this car...". As a total petrolhead like me this sums up our thoughts completely - we think the engine is bloody awful

Bottom line - we were glad when we got home. It won't be moving again until I can go and pick up my CGTS, which is NOT how you should feel about a £54,000 two seater sports car

[bcr5784]

pete.g said:

I agree - I only left the post up for a few minutes, but then deleted it after having a word with myself. It's an expression I dislike, but I wasn't adding anything to the discussion so deleted it.

Fair comment - I have words like that. "Challenge" is my pet hate. In my day (I'm pretty old) we had "problems" which we had to solve or overcome. These days the word "problem" is deemed too negative. Political correctness run wild....

[nick28]

I’ve had a B GTS for over 2 years and 12,000 miles. During that time I’ve bought and sold a 991GT3 and GT4. I’ve also test driven a 718S and an early 991.2 C2S and honestly preferred the B GTS. It ticks a lot of boxes and I like it a lot.

I recently took delivery of a 991.2 GTS and although not completely analogous it taught me a couple of things.
• Instant torque allows you to use more performance more of the time. Although we like to rev the F6 you need time/space to do so (also the B GTS has more bark than bite)
• Porsche is continually improving their product. I was amazed how much they moved the 991.2 engine on which hopefully bodes well for the 718 GTS when it comes

[bcr5784]

nick28 said:

I’ve had a B GTS for over 2 years and 12,000 miles. During that time I’ve bought and sold a 991GT3 and GT4. I’ve also test driven a 718S and an early 991.2 C2S and honestly preferred the B GTS. It ticks a lot of boxes and I like it a lot.

I recently took delivery of a 991.2 GTS and although not completely analogous it taught me a couple of things.
• Instant torque allows you to use more performance more of the time. Although we like to rev the F6 you need time/space to do so (also the B GTS has more bark than bite)
• Porsche is continually improving their product. I was amazed how much they moved the 991.2 engine on which hopefully bodes well for the 718 GTS when it comes

Have to agree. Although I'm not sold on the 991.2 sound, in other respects it's a super engine - which I prefer to my 981S. I'm a bit doubtful whether the 718GTS will move things on that far - perhaps the continued press criticism might catalyse Porsche into action - I can't believe it's impossible (though whether Porsche will cough up that much I don't know).

[edo]

Sport-tex in case anyone has specified it or was considering it. As seen today when driving the 991.2.

[ooid]

Not sure if it means anything at all but looks like all 911 and 718 (-36.1%) sales quite down in the 3 months to March 2017.

http://www.pomopar.com/is-porsche-still-a-sports-c...

[LiamH66]

ooid said:

Not sure if it means anything at all but looks like all 911 and 718 (-36.1%) sales quite down in the 3 months to March 2017.

http://www.pomopar.com/is-porsche-still-a-sports-c...

Doesn't mean too much if it's on registrations. They were moving factories around early this year so couldn't deliver on orders. My 718 turned up right at the beginning of May after a 10 month wait.

My latest 718 test drive is now coming up to 900 miles. Everything about it is growing on me, and I cannot wait to start using a few more revs. Yes, you can drive it like a diesel, but I'm guessing it's a bit more rewarding when you can be in the "right" gear. 4000rpm is definitely not enough for that.

Liam

[Mario149]

edo said:

Sport-tex in case anyone has specified it or was considering it. As seen today when driving the 991.2.

Seen sport tex on a few vids and I have to say I do like it

[Tim bo]

LiamH66 said:

My latest 718 test drive is now coming up to 900 miles. Everything about it is growing on me, and I cannot wait to start using a few more revs. Yes, you can drive it like a diesel, but I'm guessing it's a bit more rewarding when you can be in the "right" gear. 4000rpm is definitely not enough for that.

I've had more opportunity to play with the character now that it's well and truly bedded in Liam. It is a noticeably more urgent engine once you've completed your run in.

I had a run on an empty M3 late evening on monday after dropping my partner off at Heathrow for a business trip. I took the opportunity to really test the engine - rolling starts from lower speeds right up to full revs - testing dropping off mid-range and re-engaging full throttle to full revs.

The most noticeable thing to me, and the most significant difference in character of the F4T over any engine I've driven before, is how ready it is to engage at the mid-range point. If you are either holding steady at around 3.5k revs and then engage full throttle, or you are pushing hard and change up from one gear to the next so the revs drop down into the next gear, or you lift off full revs until the engine speed drops to around 3.5k revs and you re-engage full throttle, the physical punch forward is remarkable. It's like the engine is anticipating your need to engage full throttle, and it's champing at the bit to be let loose, then launches itself forward with an almighty shove when you finally give it that chance.

This is all in Sport and Sport + mode, where the throttle map adjusts. Normal mode is less urgent as you'd expect.

I had some sense of this urgency on the PEC day on the track, but with everything else I was concentrating on I didn't really appreciate the extent of it.

The noise opens up a little more too once the engine is bedded in too. More bassy at idle, more cracks on gear changes, more burbling and crackling on the overrun, it's more hooligan and giving me more of what I love about the sounds of this engine.

Edited by Tim bo on Wednesday 31st May 09:30

[Cheib]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I think the more interesting stat in there is that German sales were up 19% but Europe as a whole was up 7%....if you look at the total sales it looks like Germany generated all the growth in Europe for Porsche last year. Probably not a surprise given how expensive they are in Germany relative to the UK for example...you'll sell your product where it's most profitable. What that translates to as far as the UK is concerned is probably flat sales YoY....which I suspect is because of the FX move. i.e. Porsche not allocating any more cars to the UK. I remember talking to my OPC at the beginning of the year who were surprised in a bad way about the amount of cars they'd been allocated for Q1.

[LiamH66]

Tim bo said:

I've had more opportunity to play with the character now that it's well and truly bedded in Liam. It is a noticeably more urgent engine once you've completed your run in. <snip>

Good to know Tim, thanks. I'm just about to hit 1000 miles, and will treat myself to just a few more revs as I head towards 1800. With a bit of luck should get to that whilst on holiday in North Wales next month.

Liam

[hixster]

Part 4 of the M2 vs Audi TT RS vs 718 Cayman S
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXNJl3nx6UU

"please bring back the old engine"

Edited by hixster on Thursday 1st June 00:49

[Twinfan]

hixster said:

Part 4 of the M2 vs Audi TT RS vs 718 Cayman S
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXNJl3nx6UU

"please bring back the old engine"

"It's not the same. It's just a motor. It's not a part of the experience".

"This four cylinder motor, it's not a Cayman engine. It's barely a Porsche engine. It's not right".

Exactly how I felt about it.

Edited by Twinfan on Thursday 1st June 07:59

[HighwayStar]

Twinfan said:

hixster said:

Part 4 of the M2 vs Audi TT RS vs 718 Cayman S
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXNJl3nx6UU

"please bring back the old engine"

"It's not the same. It's just a motor. It's not a part of the experience".

"This four cylinder motor, it's not a Cayman engine. It's barely a Porsche engine. It's not right".

Exactly how I felt about it.

Edited by Twinfan on Thursday 1st June 07:59

I saw the vid last night... his feelings reflected my own. Personally, it totally spoilt the car, no soul... like it had been lobotomised.

[Mario149]

hixster said:

Part 4 of the M2 vs Audi TT RS vs 718 Cayman S
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXNJl3nx6UU

"please bring back the old engine"

Edited by hixster on Thursday 1st June 00:49

I think the killer bit for me in that vid was when he went over the kerb rumble strips in the Cayman....the noise they made was the same as the sound from the engine, just a bit louder It's all subjective but that noise would really get on my tits after about 15 mins on track

[Twinfan]

Mario149 said:

It's all subjective but that noise would really get on my tits after about 15 mins on track

It's awful - Mrs Twinfan all but had me turning our loan car around to go home. The noise was really unpleasant.