718 review - test drove today
Discussion
Twinfan said:
"It's not the same. It's just a motor. It's not a part of the experience".
"This four cylinder motor, it's not a Cayman engine. It's barely a Porsche engine. It's not right".
Exactly how I felt about it.
Same here. Brilliant sports car ruined."This four cylinder motor, it's not a Cayman engine. It's barely a Porsche engine. It's not right".
Exactly how I felt about it.
Edited by Twinfan on Thursday 1st June 07:59
dreamcar said:
Twinfan said:
"It's not the same. It's just a motor. It's not a part of the experience".
"This four cylinder motor, it's not a Cayman engine. It's barely a Porsche engine. It's not right".
Exactly how I felt about it.
Same here. Brilliant sports car ruined."This four cylinder motor, it's not a Cayman engine. It's barely a Porsche engine. It's not right".
Exactly how I felt about it.
Edited by Twinfan on Thursday 1st June 07:59
We've all been here before in the press an on the internet with Porsche, haven't we...first we had the 996 911 - 911 was 'ruined', with a water cooled flat-6 - 911 was 'ruined x 2', then we the Cayman/Boxster diluting the brand - Porsche was 'ruined', then we had electronic power steering - 911 was 'ruined', then we had turbo's (two!) on the flat-6 across the 911 range - 911 was 'ruined', then we had - deep breath - a PDK 911 GT3, GT3 was ruined...now we have a turbo'd flat-4 in the Cayman and predictably, it's also 'ruined'...oh wait...the 911 is still a great car, now that these changes have become the norm, as is the 718 Cayman and Boxster - they're not bloody 'ruined' for christ-sake.
If you don't like the engine sound, then fair enough, but if you want a new Porsche you'll have to dump another ~40k on top into a 'ruined' 911(...still turbo'd so has poor engine response, doesn't like to rev, has lag, doesn't sound as good...but...it's a flat-6 so none of this applies and everything's OK because it sounds almost like a Porsche flat-6) or find an equally capable alternative at its price point (good luck). Or, you could get over the issue and learn to appreciate the 718 for what it is, engine and all. Which is a much quicker, more accessible sports car than the version it replaces that further improves on all the other areas where the Cayman/Boxster were already brilliant. I suppose you could also always just to stick with what you've currently got...forever? If you can't get over it I feel it's your loss, it really is, and that's a shame.
I really enjoyed the Drivetribe vids, but have found myself wondering how well the flat-6 engined Cayman S would have faired in the comparison? My spidey sense tells me, because the press must find something to criticise (nothing is ever just plain old 'good' these days is it?), that the summary would have been something like 'a wonderful sports car let down by its absolute performance relative to the TT and M2 and an engine that can't really exploit the chassis as it deserves'. Had the 718S been a PDK it would likely also have nailed the TT in the straight line drag (as well as everywhere else as it did as a manual)...the previous Cayman would most likely of put in a slower lap than the TT as well as being absolutely thumped in a straight line. But it would have sounded very good, albeit the car would have been beaten in the overall comparison by a TT (albeit a very nice, capable one). Of course, my spidey sense could be way off...
Now, most people reading this on here will no doubt have their fingers burning at this point, ready to type off a tirade at my 'defence' of the 718. I'm not defending it - I just have a different view and perspective and have been able to accept an engine that doesn't sound as good because it brings so much more to the party to be enjoyed by potential owners. I just think its a shame that so many will never give it the chance it deserves because some blokes on Youtube and the internet have said so.
For those who have driven one and don't like it, you do just don't like it and will have to go somewhere else for your thrills in future. If you've not actually driven one and are basing your views on Youtube and what the internet is saying then go hear one for real yourself and make up your mind properly - they sound very different in real life to all the vids I've heard on Youtube (the sound on the Drivetribe vids is not representative at all - very poorly recorded/reproduced).
You might be surprised...most will scoff at this and say you won't be, but until you have listened to one in real life throughout the rev range (again, most of the higher quality Youtube vids are only at idle or revving from idle to make the exhaust pop/bag/fart), you don't really have a representative view. Its not a 'nice' sound like you'd describe the sound of the flat-6, it's certainly not sonorous like the flat-6 and the engine doesn't rev as sweetly as the flat-6, but it's a bloody strong, powerful engine, the mid-range response is insane and it pushes the car down the road with a force you would not recognise as a flat-6 driver - all with an interesting, off-beat boxer-4 burble thrown in that to these ears, is mechanically interesting, unique and pleasingly present throughout the rev range. I enjoy it, it's different, but accept I'm in a very small minority on here (note I've never once said it's sound is as good as the flat-6, but am judging the engine on its own merits and the sound in conjunction with everything else the engine does well).
And to say it's not a Cayman engine and barely a Porsche engine almost destroyed credibility of the review for me. Porsche has been making flat-4's and 4-cylinder engines for decades and again, if you can get past the fact it's turbo'd and that you don't like the noise, what Porsche has achieved on this flat-4 engine (both flavours) regards the spread of power and torque and overall efficiency, balanced with an ability to rev hard to beyond 7000rpm is nothing short of remarkable for the configuration.
Could they have put the turbo'd 911 lump in the Cayman/Boxster? That would fix all the issues right (other than its turbo'd so all the same limitations apply...but it's a flat-6 so all's good)...but it wouldn't fix anything because as I've said, it wouldn't allow Porsche to meet its social responsibilities as a high-end sports car maker, the implications of which aren't worth thinking about.
Thankfully, we now have the 718 and Porsche will continue to go from strength to strength.
I don't have a problem with the new turbo six in 991/2, in fact having had one for a day as a loaner I was massively impressed, a significant improvement over 991/1, even if the engine doesn't sound quite as good as before - but it still sounds classy and refined and truly befits a Porsche.
Unlike 718. I have nothing against progress or turbo charged engines. But that lump in 718 is rough, crude and unrefined. It might make 718 faster, but the performance is now quantity, not quality. I know it's subjective and a personal view but the engine swap has comprehensively ruined the car for me.
Unlike 718. I have nothing against progress or turbo charged engines. But that lump in 718 is rough, crude and unrefined. It might make 718 faster, but the performance is now quantity, not quality. I know it's subjective and a personal view but the engine swap has comprehensively ruined the car for me.
^ what dreamcar said. I agree completely.
This is probably the biggest engine change in a Porsche ever, and so much more than adding water cooling. It's been downsized, lost two cylinders and had turbos added all at the same time. It's a real shame they had to do this to the best model in the line-up IMHO.
This is probably the biggest engine change in a Porsche ever, and so much more than adding water cooling. It's been downsized, lost two cylinders and had turbos added all at the same time. It's a real shame they had to do this to the best model in the line-up IMHO.
Porsche718S said:
...it's 'ruined' the car...?
We've all been here before in the press an on the internet with Porsche, haven't we...first we had the 996 911 - 911 was 'ruined', with a water cooled flat-6 - 911 was 'ruined x 2', then we the Cayman/Boxster diluting the brand - Porsche was 'ruined', then we had electronic power steering - 911 was 'ruined', then we had turbo's (two!) on the flat-6 across the 911 range - 911 was 'ruined', then we had - deep breath - a PDK 911 GT3, GT3 was ruined...now we have a turbo'd flat-4 in the Cayman and predictably, it's also 'ruined'...oh wait...the 911 is still a great car, now that these changes have become the norm, as is the 718 Cayman and Boxster - they're not bloody 'ruined' for christ-sake.
<snip>
Thankfully, we now have the 718 and Porsche will continue to go from strength to strength.
718S, your thinking is pretty similar to mine, and I'm not about to defend the 718 because I'm obviously biased by owning one and liking it.We've all been here before in the press an on the internet with Porsche, haven't we...first we had the 996 911 - 911 was 'ruined', with a water cooled flat-6 - 911 was 'ruined x 2', then we the Cayman/Boxster diluting the brand - Porsche was 'ruined', then we had electronic power steering - 911 was 'ruined', then we had turbo's (two!) on the flat-6 across the 911 range - 911 was 'ruined', then we had - deep breath - a PDK 911 GT3, GT3 was ruined...now we have a turbo'd flat-4 in the Cayman and predictably, it's also 'ruined'...oh wait...the 911 is still a great car, now that these changes have become the norm, as is the 718 Cayman and Boxster - they're not bloody 'ruined' for christ-sake.
<snip>
Thankfully, we now have the 718 and Porsche will continue to go from strength to strength.
Going back to "ruined" Porsches, the same was said at the time of the 964, especially the C4 that my Dad bought, and you could see their point. EVERYTHING changed. Coil springs instead of torsion bars, power steering, 4 wheel drive, massive weight gain, and while the engine grew, it needed to because the car got so much heavier. On my first drive in my Dad's one I was appalled, felt nothing like a 911 to drive, felt like a car. Steering wheel no longer danced lithely between my fingertips, brake pedal felt dead, and it tram-lined and followed road curvature in a way I just couldn't get on with. It was probably the most substantial change Porsche could ever have made, and I'm not sure they have done anything bigger since.
Over the next few months I drove the car a LOT, and early the following year did a 1200 mile road trip around Sweden, with my Dad in the passenger seat. To say I learnt to love it would be a substantial understatement - I'd have one tomorrow if I had the spare cash - but then I'd possibly prefer a nice late "Classic" Carrera in many ways. Either way, they stopped making both, people cried and whinged and gnashed their teeth for each of them in their time. And then they all got water cooling and the Earth still didn't crash into the Sun.
Long story short, car designs change, some people don't like it, probably not much point in getting upset about it.
Liam
Edited by LiamH66 on Thursday 1st June 20:42
Agree entirely Liam and absolutely respect that some don't like it as there are always mixed views of a new model. Some people come around over time, by way of example I came to really admire the first XK8 but when it first came out I thought it looked ridiculous. Ultimately I came to admire it.
I've got a 718 on order and have loved it every time I've driven it and can't wait to take delivery in September. I'm sure some of the current doubters will grow to like or even love it and some won't and the 718 will remain "ruined" with the 981 as the better bet. Fair enough and I look forward to some days out, friendly banter and ultimately some great driving experiences.
I'm not insulted that others don't like it and have had a good laugh at some of the more emotive language from both sides of the debate. It wouldn't be the car it is if people weren't passionate about it.
I've got a 718 on order and have loved it every time I've driven it and can't wait to take delivery in September. I'm sure some of the current doubters will grow to like or even love it and some won't and the 718 will remain "ruined" with the 981 as the better bet. Fair enough and I look forward to some days out, friendly banter and ultimately some great driving experiences.
I'm not insulted that others don't like it and have had a good laugh at some of the more emotive language from both sides of the debate. It wouldn't be the car it is if people weren't passionate about it.
Porsche718S said:
My spidey sense tells me, because the press must find something to criticise (nothing is ever just plain old 'good' these days is it?),
Thing is though , the press almost always unanimously praised the 981S for being the most amazing sports car in its class and it regularly got 5 out 5 in most reviews? Just go back and check Evo, Autocar, AutoExpress - all 5 out of 5..They're only picking up on the engine because, well, the sound of it is disappointing, and nearly all the reviews are consistent about that, giving the car 4 out 5.
Edited by hixster on Thursday 1st June 22:22
Edited by hixster on Thursday 1st June 22:23
Edited by hixster on Thursday 1st June 22:23
Edited by hixster on Thursday 1st June 22:23
I have recently taken delivery of my 718 as a replacement for my 981.
Bear in mind that mine is a daily and cover 20k miles per year. So, not a weekend toy or second car etc.
Impressions so far? The 718 is a much better car. Over long distance driving the improvement in torque, handling and economy is very evident.
I agree that the addictive sound of the flat six is missing but I appreciate the total package.As I say, if it was a weekend toy then maybe a different set of criteria would come into it. I may prefer a Westfield for a toy but not as a daily covering 20k per year.
Just my view from a personal perspective. I can understand why some folks feel that an engine swap has spoiled the car but not for me. Drive one for some time, not just a quick drive round the block or as a journo trying to become the Jeremy Paxman of the auto journo world and see what you think.
Progress sometimes takes some embracing even if we have to get used to different character in some areas.
I love the sound of an old Spitfire aero much more than a current jet but would I swap the engines?
Just my view from an actual user of both generations.
Awaits flaming! (Which will not bother me one iota)
Bear in mind that mine is a daily and cover 20k miles per year. So, not a weekend toy or second car etc.
Impressions so far? The 718 is a much better car. Over long distance driving the improvement in torque, handling and economy is very evident.
I agree that the addictive sound of the flat six is missing but I appreciate the total package.As I say, if it was a weekend toy then maybe a different set of criteria would come into it. I may prefer a Westfield for a toy but not as a daily covering 20k per year.
Just my view from a personal perspective. I can understand why some folks feel that an engine swap has spoiled the car but not for me. Drive one for some time, not just a quick drive round the block or as a journo trying to become the Jeremy Paxman of the auto journo world and see what you think.
Progress sometimes takes some embracing even if we have to get used to different character in some areas.
I love the sound of an old Spitfire aero much more than a current jet but would I swap the engines?
Just my view from an actual user of both generations.
Awaits flaming! (Which will not bother me one iota)
hixster said:
Porsche718S said:
My spidey sense tells me, because the press must find something to criticise (nothing is ever just plain old 'good' these days is it?),
Thing is though , the press almost always unanimously praised the 981S for being the most amazing sports car in its class and it regularly got 5 out 5 in most reviews? Just go back and check Evo, Autocar, AutoExpress - all 5 out of 5..They're only picking up on the engine because, well, the sound of it is disappointing, and nearly all the reviews are consistent about that, giving the car 4 out 5.
Edited by hixster on Thursday 1st June 22:22
Edited by hixster on Thursday 1st June 22:23
Edited by hixster on Thursday 1st June 22:23
Edited by hixster on Thursday 1st June 22:23
Not taken personally by me. Just a real world experience. I really do not care what folks think. I use mine as a business expensed car and as such it is a better every day car than the 981.
As I say, if it was a weekend toy then I would maybe take a different view.
I have a small collection of classic motorbikes which sound great and are full of character(interpret how you will) When I ride a modern bike I can see a world of difference.
Much better in every dimension.
Ask me to undertake a 20k mileage and guess which one I would choose.
Not quite the same thing but I guess you get the point.
I am the wrong side of retirement age but I enjoy experiencing new things ( talking cars etc here guys) Need more notice for other things!
Anyway, wholly impressed with the 718 . This is my 4th Porsche from OPC Leicester and they have been fantastic. If you are interested I will give updates on the 718 experience.
Whatever you drive....Enjoy!
As I say, if it was a weekend toy then I would maybe take a different view.
I have a small collection of classic motorbikes which sound great and are full of character(interpret how you will) When I ride a modern bike I can see a world of difference.
Much better in every dimension.
Ask me to undertake a 20k mileage and guess which one I would choose.
Not quite the same thing but I guess you get the point.
I am the wrong side of retirement age but I enjoy experiencing new things ( talking cars etc here guys) Need more notice for other things!
Anyway, wholly impressed with the 718 . This is my 4th Porsche from OPC Leicester and they have been fantastic. If you are interested I will give updates on the 718 experience.
Whatever you drive....Enjoy!
As a 981 manual Boxster owner I really do love my 981 but as I use it everyday I usually change 3 years or 3.5 years but now mines recently had its fourth year service .
Not really sure I wanted a 718 Boxster as I was lent 2.5 s pdk although a great car was not impressed with the actual engine noise especially at town speeds it moaned groaned and grumbled rattled on start up not good at all.
2 months after my 981 service I have an air con problem so it's gone in OPC they have lent me a 718 2.0 manual and to be honest it sounds a hell of a lot better than the 2.5 pdk
It's drives pretty much like a 981 but with slightly better handerling brakes steering say 10% all round better.
The exhaust note on the 2.0 sounds pleasing engine mechanical sound is no flat 6 but no moaning groaning grumbles like the 2.5 pdk .
With 300 bhp it's quick plenty for today's roads fuel consumption is on par with my 981.
So far the 2.0 is impressing maybe add a sports exhaust would be even better.
The overall looks look sharper.
Dilemma is if you want or need to change and stick with the brand looks like it's the future.
Or buy a lower milages 981 last of them maybe buts it's the older model so eventually the 718 will be the future as Porsche never go back once changed.
See how I get on over next few days with the 718 2.0 manual from experience I dont think it's worth paying extra for the 2.5 the 2.0 seems a sweeter engine not sure if it's because it's Manual but certainly better in my experience.
Not really sure I wanted a 718 Boxster as I was lent 2.5 s pdk although a great car was not impressed with the actual engine noise especially at town speeds it moaned groaned and grumbled rattled on start up not good at all.
2 months after my 981 service I have an air con problem so it's gone in OPC they have lent me a 718 2.0 manual and to be honest it sounds a hell of a lot better than the 2.5 pdk
It's drives pretty much like a 981 but with slightly better handerling brakes steering say 10% all round better.
The exhaust note on the 2.0 sounds pleasing engine mechanical sound is no flat 6 but no moaning groaning grumbles like the 2.5 pdk .
With 300 bhp it's quick plenty for today's roads fuel consumption is on par with my 981.
So far the 2.0 is impressing maybe add a sports exhaust would be even better.
The overall looks look sharper.
Dilemma is if you want or need to change and stick with the brand looks like it's the future.
Or buy a lower milages 981 last of them maybe buts it's the older model so eventually the 718 will be the future as Porsche never go back once changed.
See how I get on over next few days with the 718 2.0 manual from experience I dont think it's worth paying extra for the 2.5 the 2.0 seems a sweeter engine not sure if it's because it's Manual but certainly better in my experience.
Edited by tracydeedance on Saturday 8th July 19:37
tracydeedance said:
Dilemma is if you want or need to change and stick with the brand looks like it's the future.
But why would you want to stick with the brand? Unless it's better of course. I simply don't understand brand loyalty for it's own sake. Edited by tracydeedance on Saturday 8th July 19:37
How will we cope when Porsche exhaust sounds are fully manufactured in 10-20 years time when all vehicles are electric and our old GT4s/GT3s etc have been compulsorily purchased by the govt. to be scrapped, or can't be run as all the petrol stations have disappeared?
Not that there will be enough sustainable electricity in the world to power them all of course, but nobody seems to have realised that yet.
...a little rant there...
Not that there will be enough sustainable electricity in the world to power them all of course, but nobody seems to have realised that yet.
...a little rant there...
DJMC said:
Not that there will be enough sustainable electricity in the world to power them all of course, but nobody seems to have realised that yet..
Why not? You can already equip your houses with solar panels that produce enough power to in some cases actually sell back to the grid. In 10-20 years time when tech is even better/more affordable and houses can be equipped with storage such as the Tesla Powerwall...I am confident I could run an electric car without increasing my drain on the national grid. Have faith, brother!
bcr5784 said:
While I think that electric cars are the future, I'm not sure ones with batteries are. Fuel cells don't have anything like the weight penalty - and we're not going to run out of Hydrogen any time soon.
This.Battery-electrics and hybrids are a stop-gap.
Hydrogen fuel-cell tech is reckoned to be the future.
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