718 review - test drove today
Discussion
brakedwell said:
What is the difference between a customer, who buys a 718 because he or she likes it and an enthusiast?
Clearly you haven't been reading all the posts on this forum 
bud To be an enthusiast you must of had or have a 981 to qualify you to post up the same sh@t time and time again
If your a owner of a new 718 you simply can't be a enthusiast because if you was a enthusiast you would have listened to Chris Harris and bought an older slower dated 981 but oh the noise is fantastic
Twinfan said:
I think the word "purist" should have been used instead.
911 purists are all about air cooled, Caysters purists the NA flat six...
b911 purists are all about air cooled, Caysters purists the NA flat six...
ks. Purist is whatever you happen to be promoting. Are you a purist if you'd only get a 911 with orange indicator lights or just part of a clique with an emotional preference?
Sparkyhd said:
bks. Purist is whatever you happen to be promoting. Are you a purist if you'd only get a 911 with orange indicator lights or just part of a clique with an emotional preference?
It's just a tag to group like minded enthusiasts together, much like genres of music are labelled.ks. Purist is whatever you happen to be promoting. Are you a purist if you'd only get a 911 with orange indicator lights or just part of a clique with an emotional preference?Purists are just fans of the old stuff!
If the question about whether a 718 buyer can be an enthusiast was in relation to my posts, then I some stuff I wrote came across wrong.
Definitely can be both. An enthusiast is someone who has a long standing interest, has researched the car and its characteristics and wants it based on its merits. A lot of buyers though (of all sorts of stuff) are not this - they just see it, like it, and have the money.
I actually quite like a turbo car in many instances - the boosty power delivery can be fun in certain cars.
But a good 6 cylinder engine is so smooth and aurally satisfying, that it just is better than a 4. And its the clear downgrade that I don't like and can't get enthusiastic about. The power boost is (almost) completely irrelevant to me.
Definitely can be both. An enthusiast is someone who has a long standing interest, has researched the car and its characteristics and wants it based on its merits. A lot of buyers though (of all sorts of stuff) are not this - they just see it, like it, and have the money.
I actually quite like a turbo car in many instances - the boosty power delivery can be fun in certain cars.
But a good 6 cylinder engine is so smooth and aurally satisfying, that it just is better than a 4. And its the clear downgrade that I don't like and can't get enthusiastic about. The power boost is (almost) completely irrelevant to me.
RedSwede said:
The power boost is (almost) completely irrelevant to me.
Horses for courses. As I got older the need to wring an engine's neck to extract the last ounce of power diminished and the torque characteristics of a turbo-charged engine became more attractive. Congested roads stifle sporty driving, so sharp handing, the flexibility of the F4T and reasonable mpg take priority over noise, making the 718 Boxster a more attractive car for me.Edited by brakedwell on Saturday 29th April 10:48
Edited by brakedwell on Saturday 29th April 10:50
Even Harris had to admit that the midrange grunt of the new car means there is enough there now to overcome the chassis in a way you couldn't with the old car. For some nutters this will matter and there may be some for whom its a reasonable trade off for the lack of N/A noise. That and the new found tuning potential with turbos could open the car up in years to come to the sort of people who were enthusiasts for the 944 turbo, rally reps and recent turbo hatches. There are loads of people in that group, far more IMHO than the old air cooled crown for example.
Only playing devils advocate of course as IMHO the car has lost a major part of its USP over all that other stuff.
Only playing devils advocate of course as IMHO the car has lost a major part of its USP over all that other stuff.
You bought a 718 over a 981 for handling reasons?
It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic. If you can tell the difference on the road, you're an extremely special driver. Probably the kind of driver that would not tolerate turbo lag and a small capacity shopping engine in a sports car.
It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic. If you can tell the difference on the road, you're an extremely special driver. Probably the kind of driver that would not tolerate turbo lag and a small capacity shopping engine in a sports car.
ORD said:
You bought a 718 over a 981 for handling reasons?
It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic. If you can tell the difference on the road, you're an extremely special driver. Probably the kind of driver that would not tolerate turbo lag and a small capacity shopping engine in a sports car.
You don't need to be a driving god to feel the improvement in steering and handling of the 718 over the 981. For me that wasn't enough to make a switch, but I wouldn't presume to think everyone would feel the same. It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic. If you can tell the difference on the road, you're an extremely special driver. Probably the kind of driver that would not tolerate turbo lag and a small capacity shopping engine in a sports car.
ORD said:
You bought a 718 over a 981 for handling reasons?
It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.
Somewhat condescending.It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.
Isn't it a bit tragic that any of us spend £50k+ just because it sounds nice. A £7k Hyundai would get the job done so wasting the rest is purely emotional.
I find that the turbo lag combined with crisper handling enables me to match my previous 981 average speed of 23mph as I fight my way through traffic and slow for speed cameras.
On normal roads the performance of a Porsche type vehicle is a complete waste so if one driver feels that the handling is a bit sharper who are we to judge.
Sparkyhd said:
ORD said:
You bought a 718 over a 981 for handling reasons?
It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.
Somewhat condescending.It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.
Isn't it a bit tragic that any of us spend £50k+ just because it sounds nice. A £7k Hyundai would get the job done so wasting the rest is purely emotional.
I find that the turbo lag combined with crisper handling enables me to match my previous 981 average speed of 23mph as I fight my way through traffic and slow for speed cameras.
On normal roads the performance of a Porsche type vehicle is a complete waste so if one driver feels that the handling is a bit sharper who are we to judge.
It's just not credible. I am sorry for sounding condescending. I'm not suggesting that I would appreciate the difference in handling; quite the opposite.
If the main point is that the roads are slow and boring, how can a minor difference in handling (appreciated most at high speed) outweigh a huge difference in engine character and noise (appreciated literally all the time, no matter the road and traffic conditions)?
Slow roads and slow driving make a gorgeous engine all the more important!
If the main point is that the roads are slow and boring, how can a minor difference in handling (appreciated most at high speed) outweigh a huge difference in engine character and noise (appreciated literally all the time, no matter the road and traffic conditions)?
Slow roads and slow driving make a gorgeous engine all the more important!
ORD said:
It's just not credible. I am sorry for sounding condescending. I'm not suggesting that I would appreciate the difference in handling; quite the opposite.
If the main point is that the roads are slow and boring, how can a minor difference in handling (appreciated most at high speed) outweigh a huge difference in engine character and noise (appreciated literally all the time, no matter the road and traffic conditions)?
Slow roads and slow driving make a gorgeous engine all the more important!
Wasn't suggesting you could tell the difference in handling. Was suggesting that those that can tell the difference in performance can't exploit it 99% of the time anyway.If the main point is that the roads are slow and boring, how can a minor difference in handling (appreciated most at high speed) outweigh a huge difference in engine character and noise (appreciated literally all the time, no matter the road and traffic conditions)?
Slow roads and slow driving make a gorgeous engine all the more important!
But what I was really getting at is that virtually all the reasons for getting a Porsche type car are pretty pointless and ridiculous on UK roads and all boil down to vanity so who am I to judge whether one user's ridiculous reason is the handling and another user's is the curve on the front wing?
ORD said:
It's just not credible. I am sorry for sounding condescending. I'm not suggesting that I would appreciate the difference in handling; quite the opposite.
If the main point is that the roads are slow and boring, how can a minor difference in handling (appreciated most at high speed) outweigh a huge difference in engine character and noise (appreciated literally all the time, no matter the road and traffic conditions)?
Slow roads and slow driving make a gorgeous engine all the more important!
I don't really disagree with that, but I would say this. If the main point is that the roads are slow and boring, how can a minor difference in handling (appreciated most at high speed) outweigh a huge difference in engine character and noise (appreciated literally all the time, no matter the road and traffic conditions)?
Slow roads and slow driving make a gorgeous engine all the more important!
I test my cars round the same route if I can. It consists of some windy and bumpy country roads, some faster single carriageway and a bit of dual carriageway. It's a fun route and I push as hard as I consider prudent.
On that route the 718 was possibly more fun than my 981. Turbo lag was not an issue and I was focused on driving rather than the exhaust note.
Unfortunately as a DD most of my driving is more mundane and it's then that turbo lag and the exhaust note come to the fore and spoil the experience.
Sparkyhd said:
Wasn't suggesting you could tell the difference in handling. Was suggesting that those that can tell the difference in performance can't exploit it 99% of the time anyway.
But what I was really getting at is that virtually all the reasons for getting a Porsche type car are pretty pointless and ridiculous on UK roads and all boil down to vanity so who am I to judge whether one user's ridiculous reason is the handling and another user's is the curve on the front wing?
You're wrong in your second point. But what I was really getting at is that virtually all the reasons for getting a Porsche type car are pretty pointless and ridiculous on UK roads and all boil down to vanity so who am I to judge whether one user's ridiculous reason is the handling and another user's is the curve on the front wing?
If I and many others on here wanted a car for vanity purposes, we wouldn't drive around in old Porsches that most people despise!
We would get a diesel SUV with a nice badge.
RedSwede said:
Second is to attract new buyers. For those wanting a "sporty" car (no, they probably don't really know what a sporty car is), the 2.7 981 will feel flat and useless, and they'll rush off and buy a TTS, despite really fancying the Porsche badge. The 718 will win them.
Compared to a TTS the 2.7 981 is way, way, more exciting. With it's tuneful engine exploited to the full, sprinting around a track or along a B road, the driver grinning from ear to ear, it is the definition of "sporty" perhaps. Or do you consider "sporty" to mean something that can sprint to 60mph in 4 seconds rather than 5 (but still not be first away from the lights)?
I found even the 718 Cayman S to feel less "sporty" than the 981 base due to the disconnected feeling between throttle and forward progress. The same turbo lag as the TTS.
You are correct that 718 buyers will be the same people who are attracted to the TTS but want the better badge. But these are not drivers desperately seeking "sporty". I'm not sure what they are really, but once you have lived with a small, single turbo, petrol engine you definitely know that this combination does not a "sporty" car make.
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