Brands Hatch drive by fiasco

[Ozzie Osmond]

Presuming Ed said:

Also is a car equipped with sport exhaust turned off any louder than a car without PSE?

Indeed - I'd be interested to know what people have actually got on their cars. "Sport exhaust" is a very broad term!

[MKnight702]

Presuming Ed said:

There are some good value days at Bedford over the next few months I quite fancy attending, anyone been in their 98 with problems?

Also is a car equipped with sport exhaust turned off any louder than a car without PSE?

However, it does work out quite expensive per lap when you get chucked out on the second one!

[lemmingjames]

Presuming Ed said:

There are some good value days at Bedford over the next few months I quite fancy attending, anyone been in their 98 with problems?

Also is a car equipped with sport exhaust turned off any louder than a car without PSE?

Bedford are also really strict as well but when i went in the past. as long as you short shifted by the meters then it was fine, ie set it off and your in for a chat. Sometimes its the resonance that can trigger it

[gtsralph]

PCGB run track days at Caste Combe run to 105db static and yesterday's and in June we had 997/991 GT3s and GT4s circulating with no noise issues. Although CC don't run many 105db days they would seem good value.

[bcr5784]

Presuming Ed said:

Also is a car equipped with sport exhaust turned off any louder than a car without PSE?

The silencers at the back are a lot smaller on the PSE exhaust to I would expect it to be noisier whether PSE was on or not. Someone on here also said that at high revs the flaps opened regardless of when PSE is on or off - but I don't have PSE so can't confirm or deny that.

[BertBert]

Test day limits are not the same. Firstly there is no drive by test on a test day as afar as I know (certainly not seen one at any test day I have been to there). Also the limits can change depending on what race car you have (or more precisly, what series you race in).

But you are supposed to have a race car (eligible for a series) to test at a test day.

BaronVonVaderham said:

Same sound limits and passengers have to have instructor licences.

[Presuming Ed]

bcr5784 said:

Presuming Ed said:

Also is a car equipped with sport exhaust turned off any louder than a car without PSE?

The silencers at the back are a lot smaller on the PSE exhaust to I would expect it to be noisier whether PSE was on or not. Someone on here also said that at high revs the flaps opened regardless of when PSE is on or off - but I don't have PSE so can't confirm or deny that.

I can believe that, as soon as you hit 4000rpm the baffling really intensifies with the PSE

[BaronVonVaderham]

BertBert said:

Test day limits are not the same. Firstly there is no drive by test on a test day as afar as I know (certainly not seen one at any test day I have been to there). Also the limits can change depending on what race car you have (or more precisly, what series you race in).

But you are supposed to have a race car (eligible for a series) to test at a test day.

BaronVonVaderham said:

Same sound limits and passengers have to have instructor licences.

I have been static sound tested in my race mini at msv circuits on both test and race days, no chance of being too loud in that though!

At Silverstone they do use the drive by test, I was testing on a day that the msport Bentleys were also doing and the mechanics said they had to use almighty stick on silencers there, whereas at Dubai they were allowed to run unsilenced.

But yes you can't drive a road car on a test day.

[BertBert]

Certainly never seen a drive by noise test at Silverstone on a test day.

[neilf]

V800MJH said:

chriscoates81 said:

But why do people live near a race track and complain about noise(im assuming its residents pushing for this)?

Because they're wkers

It's not just race circuits. Chap bought a house right at the end of the runway at my local airfield. Spent the last 5 yrs campaigning to get the airfield closed as he doesn't like the noise...

[Heathrow]

Presuming Ed said:

I was thrown off after just the one session a few weeks ago and I drive a 981 2.7 with sport exhaust. The Sport button and exhaust were off!

I did beg my way back on after they threw my scrutineering sticker off the car but had to change gear at 4000rpm which kind of made the day pointless and me as a serious road block when on the straights.

No way will I be doing Brands again. I'm aware however that most other tracks are 98db's, has anyone else suffered with the 981 at other circuits?

I was at Brands last Weds in a 981 Cayman S with PSE. I drove it all day without noise issues but my mate had a noise warning in it after one stint. I've also had noise warnings at Bedford but never been black flagged. I think it does seem to depend on weather conditions i.e. air pressure/temp/wind.

[Mario149]

Heathrow said:

Presuming Ed said:

I was thrown off after just the one session a few weeks ago and I drive a 981 2.7 with sport exhaust. The Sport button and exhaust were off!

I did beg my way back on after they threw my scrutineering sticker off the car but had to change gear at 4000rpm which kind of made the day pointless and me as a serious road block when on the straights.

No way will I be doing Brands again. I'm aware however that most other tracks are 98db's, has anyone else suffered with the 981 at other circuits?

I was at Brands last Weds in a 981 Cayman S with PSE. I drove it all day without noise issues but my mate had a noise warning in it after one stint. I've also had noise warnings at Bedford but never been black flagged. I think it does seem to depend on weather conditions i.e. air pressure/temp/wind.

My 981 BGTS will break drive by limits at Bedford if I'm anywhere near another car as we go past and even sometmes on my own. I've had a few warnings but always been allowed to carry on. Bit worried about ever taking it to Brands now, warnings and the opportunity to lift off I get, but chucking you off immediately is a great way to wind you up enough that you don't bother booking there again.

[ghiblicup]

Heathrow said:

I think it does seem to depend on weather conditions i.e. air pressure/temp/wind.

Interesting. It was peeing it down and very windy but surely they would have a knowledge and experience of this and take conditions into account.

[Heathrow]

Mario149 said:

Heathrow said:

Presuming Ed said:

I was thrown off after just the one session a few weeks ago and I drive a 981 2.7 with sport exhaust. The Sport button and exhaust were off!

I did beg my way back on after they threw my scrutineering sticker off the car but had to change gear at 4000rpm which kind of made the day pointless and me as a serious road block when on the straights.

No way will I be doing Brands again. I'm aware however that most other tracks are 98db's, has anyone else suffered with the 981 at other circuits?

I was at Brands last Weds in a 981 Cayman S with PSE. I drove it all day without noise issues but my mate had a noise warning in it after one stint. I've also had noise warnings at Bedford but never been black flagged. I think it does seem to depend on weather conditions i.e. air pressure/temp/wind.

My 981 BGTS will break drive by limits at Bedford if I'm anywhere near another car as we go past and even sometmes on my own. I've had a few warnings but always been allowed to carry on. Bit worried about ever taking it to Brands now, warnings and the opportunity to lift off I get, but chucking you off immediately is a great way to wind you up enough that you don't bother booking there again.

Don't miss out on Brands, it will be fantastic in the Boxster. Static 105 dB, drive by 92dB. This compares well with Bedford: static 101 dB, drive-by 87 dB, so you shouldn't have any additional problems in theory. These figures are from the MSV website. Talk to the staff before you get going and build up the revs during the day, but get noise tested with PSE in loud mode obviously.

[Heathrow]

ghiblicup said:

Interesting. It was peeing it down and very windy but surely they would have a knowledge and experience of this and take conditions into account.

I don't think it's that scientific unfortunately. My experience is that they're generally trying to work with you to not have to issue the black flag. But then if someone busts the noise limit on the first lap of the day then the organiser can only assume that issue will get worse as the car and driver build up speed during the day. My understanding of the law is that if a circuit receives a noise abatement order that has seriously implications for their operations, up to and including curtailment of all track activity, so you can understand their caution. That's not to say I personally agree with the law on noise, (and I say this as someone directly impacted by aviation noise at home) but the law as it stands is unlikely to be relaxed.

[ghiblicup]

Heathrow said:

ghiblicup said:

Interesting. It was peeing it down and very windy but surely they would have a knowledge and experience of this and take conditions into account.

I don't think it's that scientific unfortunately. My experience is that they're generally trying to work with you to not have to issue the black flag. But then if someone busts the noise limit on the first lap of the day then the organiser can only assume that issue will get worse as the car and driver build up speed during the day. My understanding of the law is that if a circuit receives a noise abatement order that has seriously implications for their operations, up to and including curtailment of all track activity, so you can understand their caution. That's not to say I personally agree with the law on noise, (and I say this as someone directly impacted by aviation noise at home) but the law as it stands is unlikely to be relaxed.

The difference between a 98 day (which I did the week before with no probs) and a 102 is very big in sound DB terms is it not? This is what really puzzles me!

[bcr5784]

ghiblicup said:

The difference between a 98 day (which I did the week before with no probs) and a 102 is very big in sound DB terms is it not? This is what really puzzles me!

Not really. 3db is double the sound pressure - which you might think is a lot, but in reality you would probably hear it but you wouldn't think it a big difference. 10dB is 10 times the sound pressure which you might think massive - but subjectively only sounds about twice as loud.

[chriscoates81]

bcr5784 said:

Not really. 3db is double the sound pressure - which you might think is a lot, but in reality you would probably hear it but you wouldn't think it a big difference. 10dB is 10 times the sound pressure which you might think massive - but subjectively only sounds about twice as loud.

Doesnt the human ear hear different frequencies at different levels as well so depending on the car it might not seem louder.

[bcr5784]

chriscoates81 said:

Doesnt the human ear hear different frequencies at different levels as well so depending on the car it might not seem louder.

Yes and there are weighting curves dbA and dbC which compensate for the human hearing sensitivities and which noise meters use. Brands uses dbA and I would expect other tracks to be the same.

[Mario149]

Heathrow said:

Don't miss out on Brands, it will be fantastic in the Boxster. Static 105 dB, drive by 92dB. This compares well with Bedford: static 101 dB, drive-by 87 dB, so you shouldn't have any additional problems in theory. These figures are from the MSV website. Talk to the staff before you get going and build up the revs during the day, but get noise tested with PSE in loud mode obviously.

That's good, I always thought Brands was less harsh than Bedford but thought that migth have someohow changed. It's funny, I had static but not drive by issues at Bedford in my 7.1 GT3, and it's the opposite for the Boxster! Never had probs in my 7.1 GT3 at Brands for either.