Autocar tomorrow.... 718S Cayman V M2 v F-Type

[ooid]

Carl_Manchester said:

The wide range of opinions on this thread suggests that even the Porsche enthusiasts are not sure this time.

The Cayman has its handling as a crutch to lean on this time, from what I have read the M2 has very sweet steering.

Edo/Cmoose - pls cease, shake hands.

F-type has the great sound, but still can not compete with porsche's incremental updates for years. Also, might be a very personal thing, but as a sports car, I would only enjoy the thrill of mid or rear engine car. They could have put a "Lotus" in this comparison, then it could have been more fair I guess?

[nickfrog]

highscore said:

What does "shiny, shiny, new, new" even mean?

I don't know either. This is my shiny, shiny, new, new car



I prefer new as you can spec it the way you want, no one has farted in it, in this case it was cheaper.

My forthcoming Cayman will be new as I can spec it the way I want it, ie with very little options and small wheels, which means I doubt I will be able to find the equivalent second hand, and certainly not for less based on Porsche usual pricing. I really don't see what the issue is about my behaviour. And it won't be shiny as I'll ask them to deliver unprepped as I prefer to do my own prep and protection for all the forthcoming track generated dirt.

[Stunters]

Making a choice between these three new cars perhaps depends on whether you ultimately prefer how a car drives or how a car sounds. Personally, I prefer a well-sorted mid-engined car over any other configuration, it just suits my driving style better. If I came to the decision with no baggage I suspect it would either be the M2 or the Cayman, depending on which one made me smile the most. I've had two M cars and two Caymans so it's fair to say I'm a fan of both marques.

Approaching it with my own personal baggage - I would probably lean towards the M2. I suspect it would get under my skin a little more than the Cayman on a day to day basis and just feel a bit more naughty. I would treat it as a jack of all trades, think of its slight handling flaws as 'character', and ideally save up for the new Elise in 2020 to accompany the M2 in the garage.

All the above of course assumes that for the purposes of the decision I would only be interested in buying new, and ordering the car to my own spec, with a budget of circa £50k max.

I'm glad the Jag exists but having sat in a few, I haven't been tempted to go for a test drive.

[Timbola]

nsm3 said:

I'm just using a 718S courtesy Boxster while my 981 CS is in for work.

The cars seem night & day different to me? 718 is (seems to be at least?) significantly faster on dual carriageway stuff and far punchier, firing out of slow speed corners. Turbo lag not as bad as expected (but apparent) - I could just about live with that? Overall, the car seems 'tighter' and more composed chassis wise - be interesting when I get mine back tonight?

Styling wise I don't have any major comments although the MF steering wheel with that crappy 'manettino' thing is very low rent and something akin to an Atari product?

But then there is that engine character, or lack of? Burbling along at 30/40 it is not too bad in a Scooby kind of way, but for me, changing down the box is the most disappointing - sounds as though someone is mechanically crushing cardboard boxes back there!!

Maybe being on my 3rd NA F6 Porsche engine is clouding my view and a total newcomer to the brand, wouldn't give it a second thought, but it is enough for me to know, I don't want one and won't be buying one. May as well go GTI/RS3 hatchback?

Very interesting to hear the views of someone spending time with both variants back to back.
Do you really think it's night and day?

You mention the peculiar sounds on downshift in the 718 S. Is your courtesy a manual or PDK? The manual comes with an auto-blip rev-match I understand, which would be a distinct sound.

I didn't notice anything too untoward in my test drive in a 718 Boxster S, but that was PDK.

[Twinfan]

Timbola said:

You mention the peculiar sounds on downshift in the 718 S. Is your courtesy a manual or PDK? The manual comes with an auto-blip rev-match I understand, which would be a distinct sound.

I believe auto rev-matching comes with the Sport Chrono option only, then it applies in both Sport and Sport Plus modes.

[highscore]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I didn't claim you think there is nothing wrong with your Cayman, I said you prefer it.

Twisting/ignoring what people say is exactly why you come across the way you do.

I've helped derail this thread enough now...to get back on topic:

I put a deposit down on the M2 in January of this year and had a build slot confirmed for mid November. Last month I test drove a 981 Cayman S, a base 718 Boxster and the M2 to help decide which to get.

Although my head was telling me the M2 as it was more practical and the test drive was good, it simply didn't feel as special as either of the Porsches. I ruled the M2 out based on my heart. PDK also seemed much better than the M-DCT.

The 981 sounded far, far better than the 718 I drove, but as this is going to be a daily driver I actually valued the updated PCM/interior, steering feel and torque more. Going round corners in the 718 was unlike any car I've ever driven, including the 981. I also much prefer the exterior looks of the 718.

Completely subjective but the 718 is the best fit for me.

[v8ksn]

Some tech info on the 718 here in case anyone is interested....

http://blog.caranddriver.com/tech-dive-in-depth-wi...

[nickfrog]

highscore said:

I didn't claim you think there is nothing wrong with your Cayman, I said you prefer it.

Twisting/ignoring what people say is exactly why you come across the way you do.

I've helped derail this thread enough now...to get back on topic:

I put a deposit down on the M2 in January of this year and had a build slot confirmed for mid November. Last month I test drove a 981 Cayman S, a base 718 Boxster and the M2 to help decide which to get.

Although my head was telling me the M2 as it was more practical and the test drive was good, it simply didn't feel as special as either of the Porsches. I ruled the M2 out based on my heart. PDK also seemed much better than the M-DCT.

The 981 sounded far, far better than the 718 I drove, but as this is going to be a daily driver I actually valued the updated PCM/interior, steering feel and torque more. Going round corners in the 718 was unlike any car I've ever driven, including the 981. I also much prefer the exterior looks of the 718.

Completely subjective but the 718 is the best fit for me.

I have a friend who will gladly have your M2 slot if still available.

[highscore]

nickfrog said:

I have a friend who will gladly have your M2 slot if still available.

Sorry, the dealer has already filled it

[nickfrog]

That's not a surprise ! Thx though and good move anyway !

Edited by nickfrog on Thursday 28th July 16:22

[highscore]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

The opposite of what?

I said your arguments make you sound bitter because they do. It's one thing to say (as you originally did) that a drawback of a new 718 is the engine if you want a F6. That's fair enough and I completely get that.

But to then say that you can't see any logic to buying new except being "hell bent on wanting something shiny/new/latest thing", despite people providing valid reasons makes you sound bitter/ignorant, even if you're not. There are improvements to the 718 outside of the engine and reasons why buying new appeals to people over buying used.

I posted some reasons above as to why I chose the 718 over a 981 and the M2. Are they not valid?

[FrankCayman]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Ha, ha....no it doesn't upset me!

Indeed, I buy brand new because I want a brand new car, strangley enough....i.e. not owned by somebody else. .....all components brand new...fresh out of the box (is that what you mean by shiny, shiny, new, new'??). Is there something unusual about not wishing to buy second hand cars, clothes, household furniture etc?

Being able to spec. the car within the confines of what the manufacture offers gives me the flexability to create a more bespoke car to my needs that also fits my budget. Yes, I would love to make adjustments to gearing etc...but I think we can agree that no car is perfect....

Is it purely the extra financial loss when buying a brand new car that you find hard to understand or is it that you think I am a little vain for not wanting something that somebody else has already potentially thrashed about?

It is beneficial to you that people do want 'shiny, shiny, new, new', otherwise there wouldn't be any 'not so shiny, not so shiny, not so new, not so new' cars for you to buy a few years later!!

Cheers chap!

[matsoc]

M2 would be for me the only one of the three viable as only car, having decent luggage space and rear seats, as a second fun/sports car visually isn't so appealing despite the improvemnts over the looks of lesser 2series.

F-Type looks and sounds good but on the road it is far from perfect. I test drove a V6 S auto, it felt heavy around corners, not fast as 380hp would make you expect, not that comfortable, no luggage space...a looker but not a great sports car.

The Boxter, well I havent tried the new turbo 4 but I doubt they ruined something more than the sound. Easy win.

[ags11]

If you need the extra seats as a 1 stop motor the m2 is of course the only choice.
Having owned an m roadster that had a stonking engine & lifeless handling, I'd have to say ignoring the seat issue, the 718 would be my preference - driver communication would be more important than engine for me.
That leaves us back to a 981- separate topic I know!
50 odd k on either new, I wouldn't do.
I'd save some money and go 981 or m235/40.
Actually no I wouldn't, I'd hunt up the best 997.2 carerra I could find. No need for an "s". Manual with 18" wheels- perfect!

[nsm3]

@Timbola - Test car is a PDK, same as mine, been driven on usual roads etc. I can see how they have extracted the Ring lap times from the 718, it is a very quick car!

A massive plus point - they have got the PDK stick right, with back for up and forward for down (took me a while to spot, thought it was bust!).

In brief, the 718 is a bit better overall in many ways, most noticeably the suspension/handling, but imvho, they have dropped a massive bk with this choice of coarse, unmelodic lump of an engine?

No desire in me to have one and I am really glad to get the 981 back.

I should be grateful to Porsche, as they miffed me a little by releasing the GTS, 3 months after I bought my highly (GTS like) spec S. I don't have any angst over not having this new one, which is a shame really?

[n4aat]

Whenever I stumble across one of these threads there always seems to be the same person at the centre sucking all the oxygen out of it.

[FrankCayman]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I haven't said I was going to buy a 718. I simply said originally that out of the three cars tested in Autocar, I would choose the 718. You then went off topic about not understanding why people bought brand new cars. I think you assumed because the 718 was my choice out of the 3 tested, that I was running off to place an order for a 718??

I may keep my 981 for years. I may change it for a 718 as I was pleasantly surprised by the engine. I really don't know at this stage.....but my answers to why I buy brand new are not trying to back up an argument....I wasn't arguing!!

[ags11]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I drove one back in 2011, it had a lovely zingy engine, unfortunately it was pdk confounded with the buttons.
It was too much financially for me at the time, tho if it had been manual I'd probably have been stupid!
Looking back now it was a good deal - they've turned out to be a sound buy-theres not many cooking manual cars about either.
I've got a bit of a fetish for the clean "slim hipped" Base carrera's!
We'll get panned for derailing this thread, but I guess that's what an interesting discussion is!

[nickfrog]

n4aat said:

Whenever I stumble across one of these threads there always seems to be the same person at the centre sucking all the oxygen out of it.

Indeed. Cringeworthy even.

[Phooey]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

First Porsche I drove was a 997.1 C2 (non-S) - absolutely loved every minute of ragging it - not too quick to scare yourself, but quick enough to enjoy every minute of feeling you are in a proper 'sports car. After driving and owning much quicker machinery since, I'm not sure I'd feel the same way though.

As for the M2... not got a lot of love for modern BMW's (owned a 1M and got bored very quickly - hugely overrated, IMO) and feel the M-division has gone.