Final Cayman question
Discussion
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Given that there have been hundreds of posts on the PDK vs manual debate and (as far as I am aware) this suggestion has never been mentioned, I would be surprised if that were the case. It is such a crass notion as to be laughable. As I say though if the intermediate gearing is lower with PDK (as it is with the 981 ) then the PDK will be more accelerative in each intermediate gear (though each will have a shorter - but perhaps more useful range)
Edited by bcr5784 on Wednesday 19th April 07:23
SV_WDC said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Yes good points and this isnt what I meant when stating that point. Was more that a computer can theoretically change gear at the best moment & quicker every time than most humans can. PDK in manual mode allows you to over-ride if you want, best of both worlds.Personally really like how you can just click up/down to go into manual mode temporarily, without having to switch into full manual mode
kilarney said:
Not quite as a PDK cant see the road ahead so is way behind a human in its assessment of what comes next using some pretty basic algorithms and accelerometer inputs. There was talk of cars linking the gearbox to the sat nav so that it then knows the road ahead. Once PCM is linked to PDK then the job is done and PASM come to that. However my opinion is still if you want to go flat out or crawl get PDK for everything in the middle manual.
You are assuming that you leave the box in auto and don't use override. I don't think anyone serious about going quickly on the road would do that - I normally drive in manual when setting about it, and use quite a lot of override via the paddles even when toodling. On track, though, you would be hard pressed to do better than sport+ would do left to it's own devices. Re linking the gearbox to the sat nav - Rolls Royce already do that. However there is still a need for override - I would flick down the gears as an overtaking opportunity starts to emerge.
Edited by bcr5784 on Wednesday 19th April 07:25
Edited by bcr5784 on Wednesday 19th April 07:30
bcr5784 said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Given that there have been hundreds of posts on the PDK vs manual debate and (as far as I am aware) this suggestion has never been mentioned, I would be surprised if that were the case. It is such a crass notion as to be laughable. As I say though if the intermediate gearing is lower with PDK (as it is with the 981 ) then the PDK will be more accelerative in each intermediate gear (though each will have a shorter - but perhaps more useful range)
Edited by bcr5784 on Wednesday 19th April 07:23
You're a bizarre sort. You get in a little huff every time someone says something with which you disagree.
You have a fair point in intermediate gearing, though - a PDK may well feel faster if 3rd is materially shorter than it is in a manual car, for example. My 997.2 S only feels fast in 3rd at silly speeds.
PDK really just an uber efficient auto - thats how most people use it in real world. My wife has a PDK 911. Doubt the flappy paddles have ever been used.
PDK no quicker than a well driven manual. You need skills though and its fun learning them and so much more rewarding...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pffVyUrUlfY
PDK no quicker than a well driven manual. You need skills though and its fun learning them and so much more rewarding...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pffVyUrUlfY
anonymous said:
[redacted]
This guy always makes me smile. The way he controls oversteer at high speed is fabulous. Handing a GT3 RS its behind in an archaic 993 C4 on street rubber is quite something to see. All about the driver 
Enjoy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrK1oeRjFhU
anonymous said:
[redacted]
This, definitely.To be fair, it does feel a whole lot better in sport and sport+ modes (assuming you have Sport Chrono), even if this is just to do with the slightly more excitable throttle response. Doesn't stop the PDK from being bloody irritating at times though.
k
The 2.9 isn't a slow car at all, but it can feel slow if you are used to a reasonably pokey petrol/diesel turbo car and too lazy to work the gearbox correctly. In that sense, running one as a daily is probably not a good idea if you want to beat everyone on a daily commute. However, it is a lot more fun and makes a much better noise than a Gti/330d etc
I loved my 2.9, it requires work but it is very rewarding and has plenty of usable performance. It's a fantastic car on a good B road. I didn't look at PDK but can only presume that it makes it a bit "easier" to access the performance.
I loved my 2.9, it requires work but it is very rewarding and has plenty of usable performance. It's a fantastic car on a good B road. I didn't look at PDK but can only presume that it makes it a bit "easier" to access the performance.
ORD said:
It is massively easier to drive fast in a PDK.
If you are not terribly good at driving and do not want to try to improve, PDK is the better choice.
The bottom line is if, as you say, your driving isn't great you'll be faster with PDK (by probably quite a lot). The more skilled you are (and the more brutal you are prepared to be with your P&J) the less the difference is likely to be - but however skilled you are, you will still be quicker with PDK - hence the universal adoption of automatic/semi automatic gearboxes in all race series where rules or cost don't preclude it. If you are not terribly good at driving and do not want to try to improve, PDK is the better choice.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I'm talking about the gearchange. A typical in plane gearchange takes a second or so, a crossplane shift perhaps twice that. A racing driver might halve those times. In addition a racing driver looking for ultimate performance will flat shift (not lift off the accelerator during an upshift and let the engine bounce off the limiter). That is extremely hard on the transmission and can in some cases result in requiring a gearbox rebuild every race, and often every season. The load on other parts of the transmission, clutch/driveshafts etc as a result of fast changes is also significant. Few road drivers are going to be that brutal with their cars.Re the 2.9 being slow. I own a 981 2.7, which is probably much the same performance-wise. I enjoy the duality of the engine. There is little low-end torque but certainly enough for getting from A to B. It's also quiet and relaxed when used in that mode. On the other hand, stir the gear lever, get the revs over 4K and you have enough shove and a glorious soundtrack.
I'd go further. Even when I'm driving from cold using half revs and half throttle there isn't any traffic/road condition where it suffers from being too slow. Merging with faster traffic, slip-roads, change of speed limit, accelerating up to speed after a junction/roundabout - all absolutely fine.
I'd go further. Even when I'm driving from cold using half revs and half throttle there isn't any traffic/road condition where it suffers from being too slow. Merging with faster traffic, slip-roads, change of speed limit, accelerating up to speed after a junction/roundabout - all absolutely fine.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
That is exactly my point. To achieve the performance figures quoted manufacturers use precisely those techniques. So no reasonably careful owner is going to match them in a manual (on road or track) - on the other hand my granny (if she were alive) could match them with PDK. So a driver with equal skill (and therefore the ability to carry equal speed) will always be a bit quicker with PDK than manual due to the seconds gained in gearchanges. It's all completely academic in any case - no-one goes anywhere need the absolute limit on the road and lives very long.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
True but so are their figures for PDK cars - Car and Driver recently got a 0-100mph time of 8.7 seconds for a 718S, half a second faster than the official figure - a g. Frankly I can't be sure whether Porsche flat shift or not - suspect you don't either. Given, US mags get faster times (for both - and many other cars too) you would have to assume that the test conditions are different. Grippy track? Lower test weight - don't know. I don't see evidence that they are adopting more brutal techniques than Porsche for manual cars.But all that be as it may the bottom line is that for a drivers of equal skill PDK has a performance advantage, the only valid debate is "by how much?".
Does it matter on the road - of course not! Not sure why you are trying to suggest that PDK DOESN'T have a performance advantage for drivers of equal skill.
But I leave you to have the last word - I'm sure you will feel the need.
I find that manual cars feel faster, which is what matters on the road.
As for the 981 2.7 being plenty fast, I disagree. I am not normally one to get all excited about straight line speed and power, and I love the 2.7 engine, but it is a fairly puny engine in a lot of driving conditions. I love how it revs but would never pretend that it isn't a bit weak - it's barely there at very low revs (which matters for normal road driving), and the long gears leave it a bit underpowered on A and B unless you are happy to almost never leave 2nd gear.
Put that engine in a car weighing a lot less and it would be a delight!
As for the 981 2.7 being plenty fast, I disagree. I am not normally one to get all excited about straight line speed and power, and I love the 2.7 engine, but it is a fairly puny engine in a lot of driving conditions. I love how it revs but would never pretend that it isn't a bit weak - it's barely there at very low revs (which matters for normal road driving), and the long gears leave it a bit underpowered on A and B unless you are happy to almost never leave 2nd gear.
Put that engine in a car weighing a lot less and it would be a delight!
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Sorry, I can't let that go - the speed you go down the WINDY parts of a road will (of course) depend on the speed you carry, which is , of course, (largely - but I'm not going to argue the point) independent of whether you are manual or PDK. The speed between bends, if gearchanges are involved, on the other hand, is significantly affected by the PDK/Spanish choice - which is clearly in favour of PDK. Why are you trying to ignore this point?
For road driving, it's a pretty damn short straight during which you can keep your foot in driving a modern Porsche. I usually find that lifting off once you have exited the corner fully is about right for sensible speeds!
Say PDK is 1/2 faster per shift and you shift once, that's 1/2 second more time at a slightly higher speed. Immaterial given that neither driver will be keeping his foot down through 2 gears on the road.
Say PDK is 1/2 faster per shift and you shift once, that's 1/2 second more time at a slightly higher speed. Immaterial given that neither driver will be keeping his foot down through 2 gears on the road.
Gassing Station | Boxster/Cayman | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff