718 GTS or base 911
Discussion
I actually had a 981 Black Edition as an extended drive (I can't get an extended drive in the 718, for some reason) - and it just didn't have enough power for me.
I am not a turbo hater because in real life, the times I am able to use a car's power, and feel the acceleration, are short squeezes off a roundabout, a brief overtake, or accelerating down a slip road. Therefore, having a big mid-range shove in the back is more useful and exciting to me than having to completely thrash it out to the redline. I appreciate that this is not a common view, and nor would it be the same if I was tracking it, but there you go.
Nearly new doesn't appeal to be, as (being in my 20s) (i) in-car tech is important to me (and the old Porsche systems were dire), (ii) you often end up paying over the odds for nearly new Porsches, and (iii) personal loans don't work for me, as I have a good income but not loads of accumulated savings for cars, and so I'd rather the lower monthlies that PCP brings. I know it's a cycle, but it's one I'm happy to be in with new cars every 2-3 years.
My main question relates to whether there is a discernible difference in long-distance comfort between the 718 and 991.2. The East London OPC only lets you test on a brief and pre-defined loop, where you only get to 40-50mph - so I have no idea if either are horrendous at motorway speeds, and if one is better than the other.
My lease is just on a Golf GTI - it comes with way more kit than any Porsche as standard (radar cruise, heated seats, folding mirrors, adaptive lights, two zone climate control etc) - and is both very cheap and almost silent on the motorway - but ultimately it's a front wheel drive Golf.
I am not a turbo hater because in real life, the times I am able to use a car's power, and feel the acceleration, are short squeezes off a roundabout, a brief overtake, or accelerating down a slip road. Therefore, having a big mid-range shove in the back is more useful and exciting to me than having to completely thrash it out to the redline. I appreciate that this is not a common view, and nor would it be the same if I was tracking it, but there you go.
Nearly new doesn't appeal to be, as (being in my 20s) (i) in-car tech is important to me (and the old Porsche systems were dire), (ii) you often end up paying over the odds for nearly new Porsches, and (iii) personal loans don't work for me, as I have a good income but not loads of accumulated savings for cars, and so I'd rather the lower monthlies that PCP brings. I know it's a cycle, but it's one I'm happy to be in with new cars every 2-3 years.
My main question relates to whether there is a discernible difference in long-distance comfort between the 718 and 991.2. The East London OPC only lets you test on a brief and pre-defined loop, where you only get to 40-50mph - so I have no idea if either are horrendous at motorway speeds, and if one is better than the other.
My lease is just on a Golf GTI - it comes with way more kit than any Porsche as standard (radar cruise, heated seats, folding mirrors, adaptive lights, two zone climate control etc) - and is both very cheap and almost silent on the motorway - but ultimately it's a front wheel drive Golf.
I can't compare 991 to 718, but I can relate my experience of driving around 1,500 miles to the south of france and back in a new 718 Cayman S.
It's loud at motorway speeds, and not terribly refined. The F4T does drone quite a lot, and you need to talk quite loudly to Mr or Mrs Passenger to be heard. PSE increases the volume of the drone, as do the Sport modes.
Much as I love PSE and the harsh sounds of the F4T, I do switch off PSE on motorways, and switch to Normal mode, to quiten the sound as much as possible.
Saying that, both myself and my buddy on the trip did get used to the drone, and you begin to forget it's there.
Coming from a long line of BMWs, latterly an M235i, the sound of the 718 S is much more prominent on motorways.
I would certainly imagine the 991s to be more refined and quieter on motorways, not least because the engine is a good few feet further back not right behind you as in the 718.
It's loud at motorway speeds, and not terribly refined. The F4T does drone quite a lot, and you need to talk quite loudly to Mr or Mrs Passenger to be heard. PSE increases the volume of the drone, as do the Sport modes.
Much as I love PSE and the harsh sounds of the F4T, I do switch off PSE on motorways, and switch to Normal mode, to quiten the sound as much as possible.
Saying that, both myself and my buddy on the trip did get used to the drone, and you begin to forget it's there.
Coming from a long line of BMWs, latterly an M235i, the sound of the 718 S is much more prominent on motorways.
I would certainly imagine the 991s to be more refined and quieter on motorways, not least because the engine is a good few feet further back not right behind you as in the 718.
I've driven a 718 (base - no PSE) and a 991.2 S Cab with PSE.
It's worth knowing that PSE off is louder than the non-PSE exhaust because of the smaller silencers on PSE systems. That said the 718 is, I would say, noisier that the 991.2, though both are noisier than my (non-PSE) 981 and all of them are too noisy at speed to justify a decent audio system.
However my 981 with PASM rides very noticeably better than the 991.2 S with PASM. Mine has 19" wheels though and the 911 had 20s which do spoil the ride.
So if comfort over long distance is important, whichever car you buy, avoid PSE, specify the smallest wheels on offer and specify PASM. That effectively rules out the GTS which will almost certainly come with PSE and 20" wheels. Those were the main reasons I chose a 981S over a 981GTS - so if comfort is fairly high on your list of priorities a 718S might be a better choice than a GTS.
It's worth knowing that PSE off is louder than the non-PSE exhaust because of the smaller silencers on PSE systems. That said the 718 is, I would say, noisier that the 991.2, though both are noisier than my (non-PSE) 981 and all of them are too noisy at speed to justify a decent audio system.
However my 981 with PASM rides very noticeably better than the 991.2 S with PASM. Mine has 19" wheels though and the 911 had 20s which do spoil the ride.
So if comfort over long distance is important, whichever car you buy, avoid PSE, specify the smallest wheels on offer and specify PASM. That effectively rules out the GTS which will almost certainly come with PSE and 20" wheels. Those were the main reasons I chose a 981S over a 981GTS - so if comfort is fairly high on your list of priorities a 718S might be a better choice than a GTS.
PASM now standard on all 911s
We have stuck with standard 19s for the best ride on s
t UK roads.
Doing PEC in a few weeks but ironically after spec lock down. Did debate PSE but its silly money, and have now watched some vids with 991.2 without and it sounds great (and as you say is less intrusive when on motorway etc)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbLrfNV3Kc4
Cant wait for our manual car to arrive now!
We have stuck with standard 19s for the best ride on s
t UK roads.Doing PEC in a few weeks but ironically after spec lock down. Did debate PSE but its silly money, and have now watched some vids with 991.2 without and it sounds great (and as you say is less intrusive when on motorway etc)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbLrfNV3Kc4
Cant wait for our manual car to arrive now!
RMJ891 said:
Thanks - and yes, for me the choice is between those two cars - I wouldn't go for a 981. I have done the Audi thing, and fell out of love with it literally within weeks of owning it. I know people like to make a point about not liking the 718's engine, but to say you'd rather a RS3 to a 718 GTS is incredible!
That's how much I dislike the new flat four engines I'm afraid. Don't like anything about them, it's comprehensively ruined the car. I certainly wouldn't exchange our BGTS for one, or any other hot hatch.When our BGTS went in for service OPC Portsmouth loaned me an almost brand new 991/2. It's a fantastic car, even though it doesn't have quite the same aural delights as the n/a 911's I was very very impressed. I would go as far to say that never has the gulf between Boxster / Cayman range and 911 been as big. Primarily due to the engines 991 is a far superior and more sophisticated product, well worth paying the extra for
Edited by dreamcar on Friday 19th May 17:01
dreamcar said:
That's how much I dislike the new flat four engines I'm afraid. Don't like anything about them, it's comprehensively ruined the car. I certainly wouldn't exchange our BGTS for one, or any other hot hatch.
When our BGTS went in for service OPC Portsmouth loaned me an almost brand new 991/2. It's a fantastic car, even though it doesn't have quite the same aural delights as the n/a 911's I was very very impressed. I would go as far to say that never has the gulf between Boxster / Cayman range and 911 been as big. Primarily due to the engines 991 is a far superior and more sophisticated product, well worth paying the extra for
I find it amusing that the Flat 4 can be accused of comprehensively ruining the 718. When our BGTS went in for service OPC Portsmouth loaned me an almost brand new 991/2. It's a fantastic car, even though it doesn't have quite the same aural delights as the n/a 911's I was very very impressed. I would go as far to say that never has the gulf between Boxster / Cayman range and 911 been as big. Primarily due to the engines 991 is a far superior and more sophisticated product, well worth paying the extra for
Edited by dreamcar on Friday 19th May 17:01
I've owned 3 987 Caymans, 2 Gen 1 Spyders, a 981 CS and 981 BGTS and enjoyed them all. After a test drive and a day at PEC in a 718 CS I have no doubt that this will be my favourite iteration yet! I found the noise surprisingly good but more importantly the car felt significantly quicker and better to drive than my BGTS.
I guess you share a similar view point re engines to my Dad, he always teased me that my Porsche's were missing 2 cylinders, sadly he's not around to take the piss that I'm now missing 4
Si-3PO said:
I find it amusing that the Flat 4 can be accused of comprehensively ruining the 718.
I guess you share a similar view point re engines to my Dad, he always teased me that my Porsche's were missing 2 cylinders, sadly he's not around to take the piss that I'm now missing 4
Whatever your view, surely everyone would admit that the 718 is a marmite engine. I personally have no antipathy for a turbo 4 - owned and enjoyed 2 Subarus and have placed a deposit on an Alpine A110, but the 718 is not for me. But that doesn't mean that others who take a different view are wrong - merely that they have different priorities or subjective preferences.I guess you share a similar view point re engines to my Dad, he always teased me that my Porsche's were missing 2 cylinders, sadly he's not around to take the piss that I'm now missing 4
bcr5784 said:
Si-3PO said:
I find it amusing that the Flat 4 can be accused of comprehensively ruining the 718.
I guess you share a similar view point re engines to my Dad, he always teased me that my Porsche's were missing 2 cylinders, sadly he's not around to take the piss that I'm now missing 4
Whatever your view, surely everyone would admit that the 718 is a marmite engine. I personally have no antipathy for a turbo 4 - owned and enjoyed 2 Subarus and have placed a deposit on an Alpine A110, but the 718 is not for me. But that doesn't mean that others who take a different view are wrong - merely that they have different priorities or subjective preferences.I guess you share a similar view point re engines to my Dad, he always teased me that my Porsche's were missing 2 cylinders, sadly he's not around to take the piss that I'm now missing 4
I sat in the A110 at the London Motor Show a few weeks ago. Lovely. Interior and driving position are perfect. Great seats.
RMJ891 said:
I actually had a 981 Black Edition as an extended drive (I can't get an extended drive in the 718, for some reason) - and it just didn't have enough power for me.
I am not a turbo hater because in real life, the times I am able to use a car's power, and feel the acceleration, are short squeezes off a roundabout, a brief overtake, or accelerating down a slip road. Therefore, having a big mid-range shove in the back is more useful and exciting to me than having to completely thrash it out to the redline. I appreciate that this is not a common view, and nor would it be the same if I was tracking it, but there you go.
Nearly new doesn't appeal to be, as (being in my 20s) (i) in-car tech is important to me (and the old Porsche systems were dire), (ii) you often end up paying over the odds for nearly new Porsches, and (iii) personal loans don't work for me, as I have a good income but not loads of accumulated savings for cars, and so I'd rather the lower monthlies that PCP brings. I know it's a cycle, but it's one I'm happy to be in with new cars every 2-3 years.
My main question relates to whether there is a discernible difference in long-distance comfort between the 718 and 991.2. The East London OPC only lets you test on a brief and pre-defined loop, where you only get to 40-50mph - so I have no idea if either are horrendous at motorway speeds, and if one is better than the other.
My lease is just on a Golf GTI - it comes with way more kit than any Porsche as standard (radar cruise, heated seats, folding mirrors, adaptive lights, two zone climate control etc) - and is both very cheap and almost silent on the motorway - but ultimately it's a front wheel drive Golf.
Haven't done a direct comparison of 991.2 and 718, in fact I have never driven the latest 911 incarnations, but I have recently bought a base 718 with 18" wheels, PASM, and standard exhaust. I have also driven every 718 variant, and tried most of the extras that might make any difference. I've done about 300 miles in my one, about 50:50 mix of motorway and A/B roads, and sticking to 4000rpm for the first 1000 or so. I have been able to give all other variants more extensive tests of power, ride and handling both on the road and at the PEC.I am not a turbo hater because in real life, the times I am able to use a car's power, and feel the acceleration, are short squeezes off a roundabout, a brief overtake, or accelerating down a slip road. Therefore, having a big mid-range shove in the back is more useful and exciting to me than having to completely thrash it out to the redline. I appreciate that this is not a common view, and nor would it be the same if I was tracking it, but there you go.
Nearly new doesn't appeal to be, as (being in my 20s) (i) in-car tech is important to me (and the old Porsche systems were dire), (ii) you often end up paying over the odds for nearly new Porsches, and (iii) personal loans don't work for me, as I have a good income but not loads of accumulated savings for cars, and so I'd rather the lower monthlies that PCP brings. I know it's a cycle, but it's one I'm happy to be in with new cars every 2-3 years.
My main question relates to whether there is a discernible difference in long-distance comfort between the 718 and 991.2. The East London OPC only lets you test on a brief and pre-defined loop, where you only get to 40-50mph - so I have no idea if either are horrendous at motorway speeds, and if one is better than the other.
My lease is just on a Golf GTI - it comes with way more kit than any Porsche as standard (radar cruise, heated seats, folding mirrors, adaptive lights, two zone climate control etc) - and is both very cheap and almost silent on the motorway - but ultimately it's a front wheel drive Golf.
With standard exhaust the base model is not a noisy car, and the ride comfort on the motorway, and anywhere else is really good - about as good as I have experienced in any smallish sports car. At motorway speeds the road noise from the P Zeros fitted to mine is unobtrusive enough to enjoy the standard sound system, which is also pretty good. Probably on the noisy side for making the posher sound systems very worthwhile options.
While I can't answer the original question, your needs from the car itself are pretty similar to mine. The 718 is a hoot for hooning around roundabouts - the base model has a big enough shove in the back in the mid-range for me - the S is better, and both do what you are talking about a lot better than the 981s. The NA6's are such sweet engines, but I think turbo engines work so well in such a competent chassis - like you say, probably wouldn't be the more satisfying track tool, but for everyday motoring they are just brilliant fun, especially with a manual box.
The in-car tech is OK, would probably be better if I had an Apple phone, but really pretty acceptable even on Android. I'm actually using the nav, which is rare for me, as I so often find Google Maps on my phone outperforms in-car nav.
The 718 makes a great GT car and a great everyday road car. I bought mine for exactly those purposes, and so far it fits the bill just perfectly. Loads more luggage space than I expected, fills me with joy every time I turn the key in the ignition, and actually look forward to any journey in it, so far the longer the better. I don't know if a 911 would do the job better, bit of a moot point for now as I don't do credit, and a new 911 would have meant finding another £40-50k. But I might look into it for next time. Totally respect how you are doing things, but again I'm guessing it might be a little more in monthly payments, so you'd need to think about whether 2 little seats and some more power and refinement are worth it to you. For me, and for now, the 718 is everything I wanted and more, and you are right, a short run round the block around London will not give you the answers you want.
Liam
Edited by LiamH66 on Saturday 20th May 22:27
Edited by LiamH66 on Saturday 20th May 22:31
dreamcar said:
I drove 991/1 on several occasions and considered buying either a low mileage used one or a new Boxster GTS. It turned out to be a no brainier, heresy it might be to say it but I found 991/1 almost boring, too refined, more GT than sports car. Then when I was loaned a 991/2 when our BGTS was being serviced I felt the car was transformed back into a sharp sports car again, even with the muted turbocharged engine. In the same way that the myriad of minor improvements have made significant improvements with 718 over 981 without those improvements being overshadowed by "that" engine. If I was buying another Porsche now I'd be looking for a low mileage used 991/2 for only a few £k more than a decent specced new 718.
Gassing Station | Boxster/Cayman | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff