Engine difference 991.2/991.2s/991.gts?

[GT4P]

What is the difference (engine)between each car as they all share the same 3.0 litre block but the gap between the base model and Gts (my specs on configurator) is £20k?
I know base and S have different turbos and the obvious ecu tune but what else?

[TonyG2003]

There are certainly different turbos on the standard Carrera/S/GTS with progressively bigger turbo's/more bhp. However you also get additional standard features (bigger brakes, suspension differences, interior differences... etc...check the configurators) on the CarreraS/GTS over the Carrera, hence it's not jus the bhp that differentiates the different models.

Having said that the Carrera is still a pretty fast car.

[GT4P]

But what I want to know what are the internal engine differences or is the power hike ie 80hp between base model and Gts just bigger turbos,exhaust and Ecu remap?

[TonyG2003]

So everything I've read is that the engine/block is the same between all models and the power difference is turbos/intercoolers/ecu's. Hence you can upgrade a CarreraS to GTS with a power kit without changing the engine.

However the point I was trying to make it's the the £20k difference between the Carrera and the GTS is not just the engine, that a part but not everything.

[Cheib]

GT4P said:

But what I want to know what are the internal engine differences or is the power hike ie 80hp between base model and Gts just bigger turbos,exhaust and Ecu remap?

The GTS has a different turbocharger

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/products/porsche-9...

I suspect the differences in the Carrera and Carrera S are even less.

Besides the emissions "benefit" from Turbocharged engines I imagine the big benefit for Porsche is ease of manufacturing....i.e. there are less mechanical differences in the engine between the Carrera and the GTS now....i.e. the Powerkit in the GTS was previously an engineering solution i.e. changes to the engine itself rather than a different turbocharger. My guess would be that the 991.2 is cheaper to manufacture because of this even if the engines themselves may be slightly more complex the blocks are smaller and less differentiation equals easier to manufacture etc.

[dvshannow]

Cheib said:

GT4P said:

But what I want to know what are the internal engine differences or is the power hike ie 80hp between base model and Gts just bigger turbos,exhaust and Ecu remap?

The GTS has a different turbocharger

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/products/porsche-9...

I suspect the differences in the Carrera and Carrera S are even less.

Besides the emissions "benefit" from Turbocharged engines I imagine the big benefit for Porsche is ease of manufacturing....i.e. there are less mechanical differences in the engine between the Carrera and the GTS now....i.e. the Powerkit in the GTS was previously an engineering solution i.e. changes to the engine itself rather than a different turbocharger. My guess would be that the 991.2 is cheaper to manufacture because of this even if the engines themselves may be slightly more complex the blocks are smaller and less differentiation equals easier to manufacture etc.

As to how tunable the 991.2 engine is what experience have people had? I see that they all tend to produce more than quoted outputs and remaps are giving

Carerra +90
Carerra S +60
GTS +60 bhps

Is this likely to be realistic ?

How strong is the block in general? If its basically thr same block then tuning with the GTS turbos to circa 510bhp is fine or pushing things a bit?

[Cheib]

DMS quote 530 bhp and 495 lb/ft for the GTS

http://www.dmsautomotive.com/upgrades/porsche-911-...

Question is....do you really need that in a 2wd car ? GTS is plenty fast enough as it is and on s six month old car bye bye warranty. If it leaves evidence in the ECU it also be very hard to sell if you ever wanted to.

[Swimfinz]

Cheib said:

DMS quote 530 bhp and 495 lb/ft for the GTS

http://www.dmsautomotive.com/upgrades/porsche-911-...

Question is....do you really need that in a 2wd car ? GTS is plenty fast enough as it is and on s six month old car bye bye warranty. If it leaves evidence in the ECU it also be very hard to sell if you ever wanted to.

Interesting point Cheib..... Most ECU “upgrades” using the OBD port (eg. COBB tunes), state that the car can be returned to “stock files” if need be..... This is used as an argument to validate the tune as essentially a “bolt-on” that can be returned to OEM, and thus not invalidate the Warranty.... However, presumably if Porsche interrogate the ECU sufficiently, and find evidence of tampering, the Warranty is hence “null and void”....?? Could be a risky game on a new car....

[dvshannow]

I think he meant the mechanical differences and that the S is a v similar engine to the base engine but with a different tuning profile

Whether this is the case i have no idea but it would imply if so that you can tune either to the same final output

[TonyG2003]

There are differences (as others have said) between the Carrera and CarreraS non engine related but mostly C-CS-CGTS engine changes relate to the turbo chargers and inter coolers getting progressively bigger and very slightly more peaks in terms of delivery. My CS was ordered before the GTS was released and has most of the GTS spec so I did consider getting the power kit but at £10k for 30bhp I didn’t think it was worth it.

[dvshannow]

So whiles its likely you can lose warranty with a remap its still not that clear how strong the block is.

Given its a new engine i would expect it to be quite over engineered and capable of more power but thats just a guess.

Im not tempted to do this on such a new car and hardly think it needs more power a 530bhp rwd would be a bit of a monster , yes the gt2 rs is 700.. but thats a complete monster.

But its interesting as first time really that the carerra range has this much scope for tuning which was previously only for the awd tt models.

Makes me wonder what kinda lap times a remapped gts on cups would be able to post , ie how capable is the chassis given more power.

I think for just going fast as possible in a 911 on track even a 991.2 gt3 might have its work cut out to match a 530bhp turbo

[dvshannow]

I'm tempted I have to say, I don't know why, the car is really fantastic and I don't actually feel like I need anymore power but its more just to have atinker and have something a little different and a bit of a sleeper.

has anyone here tried tuning their 991.2 either regular or GTS? would be interested to hear how it went - what were the claimed gains and how did the car actually feel before and after?

I do v low mileage so while I know there is a warranty risk I am ok with this and plan to keep the car a long time

[Taffy66]

dvshannow said:

I'm tempted I have to say, I don't know why, the car is really fantastic and I don't actually feel like I need anymore power but its more just to have atinker and have something a little different and a bit of a sleeper.

has anyone here tried tuning their 991.2 either regular or GTS? would be interested to hear how it went - what were the claimed gains and how did the car actually feel before and after?

I do v low mileage so while I know there is a warranty risk I am ok with this and plan to keep the car a long time

If you need any information i suggest phoning 'DMS Automotive'.

[dvshannow]

Thanks looking at their instagram they do some interesting cars including a blue gts they dynod at 539bhp!

[smudger911]

The 991.2 GTS at least and I'm sure of 991.2's have the turbo overboost feature. Sure it "only" lasts 20 seconds which is probably enough in most cases.

One thing I would say, and IMHO Porsche have done a fantastic job on the overall car calibration on the 991.2 GTS. Chassis, engine, brakes and gearbox are perfectly matched.

[dvshannow]

smudger911 said:

The 991.2 GTS at least and I'm sure of 991.2's have the turbo overboost feature. Sure it "only" lasts 20 seconds which is probably enough in most cases.

One thing I would say, and IMHO Porsche have done a fantastic job on the overall car calibration on the 991.2 GTS. Chassis, engine, brakes and gearbox are perfectly matched.

I thought sport response just pre spooled turbos to reduce lag but didnt give any hp gain beyond the standard 450bhp?

[smudger911]

Mmmmmm good point.
My understanding at least was normal boost pressure is 1.0 bar, sport response gives 1.2 bar. Not sure if the quoted 450hp is with or without the overboost?

[dvshannow]

Does anyone know where to find the differences in gearboxes between various 911s

E.g. whats the difference between the pdk box in an S vs a turbo S ? Would be good to know when looking at some of these engine mods

More generally where can you find information of the susoension parts used for the different models , ie i know GT cars have bespoke suspemsion parts but how do the non Gt cars differ in mechanicals