U turn if you want to, Slippy's not for turning .....

[LiamH66]

Get exactly what you are both saying, and yes, all fair points.

I've never completely got my head around the idea of doing track days in road cars, but if I ever do it won't be with a view to having the quickest car there, or going around the track quicker than anyone else. Got to be about getting the most driving pleasure I assume? I guess there must some joy in modifying a car to get it to work better, but I'd end up wanting to race, and there's so much more bang per buck to be had elsewhere. (Rotax Max soon, was TKM for a few years)

Oulton is probably my most local track. I've never driven round it, but have run a few race cars there over the years. Possibly a bit challenging for a first track day, lots of corners to learn. What do you think?

Liam

[Porsche911R]

LiamH66 said:

Get exactly what you are both saying, and yes, all fair points.

I've never completely got my head around the idea of doing track days in road cars, but if I ever do it won't be with a view to having the quickest car there, or going around the track quicker than anyone else. Got to be about getting the most driving pleasure I assume? I guess there must some joy in modifying a car to get it to work better, but I'd end up wanting to race, and there's so much more bang per buck to be had elsewhere. (Rotax Max soon, was TKM for a few years)

Oulton is probably my most local track. I've never driven round it, but have run a few race cars there over the years. Possibly a bit challenging for a first track day, lots of corners to learn. What do you think?

Liam

I agree better off in a Elise for tracking. more fun , more feel and 1/4 of the running costs.

[boxsey]

LiamH66 said:

Oulton is probably my most local track. I've never driven round it, but have run a few race cars there over the years. Possibly a bit challenging for a first track day, lots of corners to learn. What do you think?

Liam

That's a common thought but I'd say a first timer could get in trouble on any track. With the right attitude of going there to enjoy it and drive to your own comfort level (and the usual caveat of getting instruction) I don't see Oulton being a problem. You certainly won't get bored because it has to be one of the best driver circuits in the country. Hence why the Porsche RS day continues to be held there.

For our group of mostly road car track day drivers it's more about the craic than ultimate lap times. The evening in the hotel bar after the day is half the fun.

[ChrisW.]

here is a Cayman R vs GT4 on the straight at the last PCGB event the 1st 30 seconds will show you on the straights you gain st all.
https://youtu.be/yAh04KpXERs

I hope it's not rude to say that Kevin asked to follow me for the first couple laps ...

[LiamH66]

ChrisW. said:

I hope it's not rude to say that Kevin asked to follow me for the first couple laps ...

Not in the slightest I'm sure. I know what it looks like when the vehicle in front of me on the track is gone, and not about to be reeled back in. That's what I saw in the video, and it seemed clear that you were holding back initially.

Out of interest, have you driven both on the same day? What are your thoughts on Cayman R vs. GT4?

Liam

[Porsche911R]

LiamH66 said:

Not in the slightest I'm sure. I know what it looks like when the vehicle in front of me on the track is gone, and not about to be reeled back in. That's what I saw in the video, and it seemed clear that you were holding back initially.

Out of interest, have you driven both on the same day? What are your thoughts on Cayman R vs. GT4?

Liam

CW has ran both many times.

I run both every day.

The GT4 is the track car of choice because it has more adjustment standard, in the real world there is not much in it like I said.
The GT4 is really to fast for the road becsue of the better sus set up and how it rides, the R about perfect imo.

To get the same feeling as the R at 85 Mph you need to be 110Mph in the GT4.

The 3.8 extra torque sort of gets sapped by 20" wheels imo and the long 2nd gear.
the 3.4 is a nice little unit.

To 90 mph you are only going to pull a car length in the GT4 so 2 meters.
above 90Mph the extra Bhp starts to show.

The R has more feel and better steering, the GT4 feels GT like, solid better brakes, heavy clutch but the EPS all though its quite good eps.

The GT4 needs a tune up and it always feels to me it needs it, you can get 420bhp from a map alone which is unheard of for a NA map so it's detuned.

THe R is the more fun on the R the GT4 more on track

[ras62]

I saw Kevin last week and he was impressed the R could just about hold onto the GT4 on acceleration. He seemed less impressed that his front left tyre was reduced to scrap in the process and seemed a little cold on the feedback offered by the Cayman chassis. He mentioned constant intervention of the electronic aids and high rear brake temps even with all systems turned off.

[boxsey]

ras62 said:

I saw Kevin last week and he was impressed the R could just about hold onto the GT4 on acceleration. He seemed less impressed that his front left tyre was reduced to scrap in the process and seemed a little cold on the feedback offered by the Cayman chassis. He mentioned constant intervention of the electronic aids and high rear brake temps even with all systems turned off.

Rob, Anglesey is terrible for that particular tyre wear. Too many hairpins. That's one of the reasons I didn't bother going there this year. Having chatted with him about the wear, it sounds like he was running tyre pressures lower than I do (for road tyres) which won't have helped.

[ras62]

That makes sense Steve. Did you find the same issue with the 964?

[ajondyh]

ras62 said:

I saw Kevin last week and he was impressed the R could just about hold onto the GT4 on acceleration. He seemed less impressed that his front left tyre was reduced to scrap in the process and seemed a little cold on the feedback offered by the Cayman chassis. He mentioned constant intervention of the electronic aids and high rear brake temps even with all systems turned off.

That is my biggest criticism of the CR. The PSM stays active even when switched off and in Sport mode. Probably great for on the road but more dangerous when on track. It can suddenly cut the throttle just when you need it if it thinks you're being a hooligan Should be able to turn it off completely by the switch.

[boxsey]

ras62 said:

That makes sense Steve. Did you find the same issue with the 964?

Less so but that was because the 964 had a little bit more front camber and I used Toyo R888s. The stiffer side walls of the R888s (compared to Kevin Mich PS4s) probably roll a little less so I didn't see bad shoulder wear. The Cayman R has very little camber adjustment to help with shoulder wear hence I run quite high pressures on my supersports (36 hot) where as I could run 30 hot with the R888s on the 964.The GT4 in standard form will also trash tyres at the Anglesey hairpins. Chris's GT4 is probably less hard on its tyres now that he has the Manthey set up.

[boxsey]

ajondyh said:

ras62 said:

I saw Kevin last week and he was impressed the R could just about hold onto the GT4 on acceleration. He seemed less impressed that his front left tyre was reduced to scrap in the process and seemed a little cold on the feedback offered by the Cayman chassis. He mentioned constant intervention of the electronic aids and high rear brake temps even with all systems turned off.

That is my biggest criticism of the CR. The PSM stays active even when switched off and in Sport mode. Probably great for on the road but more dangerous when on track. It can suddenly cut the throttle just when you need it if it thinks you're being a hooligan Should be able to turn it off completely by the switch.

My experience with PSM off and sport plus mode on is that I've not found it intrusive or noticed any throttle cutting (albeit that I'm not as quick as you Andy!). The PSM light blinks in this scenario but it doesn't feel like the car is trying to sort anything out for me (nothing more than I automatically do to correct it). Conversely with PSM left on and sport plus mode I can sense throttle cutting going on and rear brakes being applied by the car in some situations. Most noticeably at the turn in point of a hard braking zone...I would be trailing off the brakes and the car would put them on again! Yet while all this goes on the PSM light doesn't blink! This makes me wonder whether the blinking PSM light in OFF mode is purely there for advise purposes?

At the last Oulton Park outing Kevin left PSM on and I turned it off. When he measured the rear brake disc temperatures, his were significantly hotter than mine.

[Porsche911R]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

yes but a lot more relaxed.

You can drive round the R issues mind you if you are in Sport and PSM off, just watch the steering angle vs power.
Must be a yaw angle ve throttle, vs slip calc which cuts in, NO one should run a 987.2 with PSM on on track though.

There is also one bend on every track you can get the PSM light flash.

[Porsche911R]

ras62 said:

I saw Kevin last week and he was impressed the R could just about hold onto the GT4 on acceleration. .

that's because the GT4 is not a hell of a lot faster like people or should I say owners are saying lol

Tim was having trouble with the 981 PDK boxsters at Silverstone on the straights.

People are funny though if they think the GT4 is the fastest thing ever, 14 seconds to 125mph is bloody slow these days.
As always I say it how it is even though I own one, they are only cars.

[ChrisW.]

Well, to set the cat amongst the pigeons, I would have optioned a PDK GT4 ....

[LiamH66]

ChrisW. said:

Well, to set the cat amongst the pigeons, I would have optioned a PDK GT4 ....

Pretty sure I can understand why, and BTW you never answered my question on the previous page , although 911R has given me a pretty full summary of differences.

Liam

[bcr5784]

ChrisW. said:

Well, to set the cat amongst the pigeons, I would have optioned a PDK GT4 ....

I'm sure you are not alone. It will be interesting to see how many new GT3s are PDK.

[Porsche911R]

bcr5784 said:

I'm sure you are not alone. It will be interesting to see how many new GT3s are PDK.

Not mine :-)

All 4 of my drivers cars are manual, PDK is for racing and chasing those 2/10ths and has nothing to do with driving :-)

[Slippydiff]

ChrisW. said:

Well, to set the cat amongst the pigeons, I would have optioned a PDK GT4 ....

For what reason/s Chris ?

[bcr5784]

Porsche911R said:

As always I say it how it is even though I own one, they are only cars.

Radical concept that. Given some of the postings and vast numbers of pictures, some would doubtless like to sleep with their cars - but what people do in private with their consenting conveyance is none of my business.