Beware 981 Brake Pedal Mount Bushing
Discussion
My brake pedal finally succumbed to this well known failure a little over 3 years after manufacture. In 2014 there were a number of reports of brakes locking on completely but in my case it seems to have been a very gradual process that was difficult to detect until extra "engine" braking became evident in the last week when coming off the throttle.
Whilst the Porsche service document attributes the problem to "high temperatures and high humidity" my case would suggest vehicle's age and mileage is also a factor.
So in addition to replacing the bushing, I had to replace front disks, front and rear pads (replacing those that had done around 2,500 miles) and rear caliper piston covers. All very irritating because had Porsche made this issue a recall in 2014 and not a "replace under warranty if owner reports problem" then fixing it would not have been so expensive.
If 981 Cayman and Boxsters (probably 2013 - 2014 manufacture) have not had the new part fitted, I'd recommend owners get it done as a precautionary measure even though Porsche still insist on brake "failure" before doing it under warranty. Porsche allow 1.5 hours for Centres to do the work and the part costs £8.50. The relevant service document is "WM 460855"
Whilst the Porsche service document attributes the problem to "high temperatures and high humidity" my case would suggest vehicle's age and mileage is also a factor.
So in addition to replacing the bushing, I had to replace front disks, front and rear pads (replacing those that had done around 2,500 miles) and rear caliper piston covers. All very irritating because had Porsche made this issue a recall in 2014 and not a "replace under warranty if owner reports problem" then fixing it would not have been so expensive.
If 981 Cayman and Boxsters (probably 2013 - 2014 manufacture) have not had the new part fitted, I'd recommend owners get it done as a precautionary measure even though Porsche still insist on brake "failure" before doing it under warranty. Porsche allow 1.5 hours for Centres to do the work and the part costs £8.50. The relevant service document is "WM 460855"
gtsralph said:
My brake pedal finally succumbed to this well known failure a little over 3 years after manufacture. In 2014 there were a number of reports of brakes locking on completely but in my case it seems to have been a very gradual process that was difficult to detect until extra "engine" braking became evident in the last week when coming off the throttle.
Whilst the Porsche service document attributes the problem to "high temperatures and high humidity" my case would suggest vehicle's age and mileage is also a factor.
So in addition to replacing the bushing, I had to replace front disks, front and rear pads (replacing those that had done around 2,500 miles) and rear caliper piston covers. All very irritating because had Porsche made this issue a recall in 2014 and not a "replace under warranty if owner reports problem" then fixing it would not have been so expensive.
If 981 Cayman and Boxsters (probably 2013 - 2014 manufacture) have not had the new part fitted, I'd recommend owners get it done as a precautionary measure even though Porsche still insist on brake "failure" before doing it under warranty. Porsche allow 1.5 hours for Centres to do the work and the part costs £8.50. The relevant service document is "WM 460855"
Bearing in mind the modified nature of your car, I'm shocked you have the car maintained by an OPC Ralph. All the more so when they force you to replace parts that have little or no bearing on the brake pedal bush failure.Whilst the Porsche service document attributes the problem to "high temperatures and high humidity" my case would suggest vehicle's age and mileage is also a factor.
So in addition to replacing the bushing, I had to replace front disks, front and rear pads (replacing those that had done around 2,500 miles) and rear caliper piston covers. All very irritating because had Porsche made this issue a recall in 2014 and not a "replace under warranty if owner reports problem" then fixing it would not have been so expensive.
If 981 Cayman and Boxsters (probably 2013 - 2014 manufacture) have not had the new part fitted, I'd recommend owners get it done as a precautionary measure even though Porsche still insist on brake "failure" before doing it under warranty. Porsche allow 1.5 hours for Centres to do the work and the part costs £8.50. The relevant service document is "WM 460855"
This sounds like another case of an OPC creating work when it's not required.
The bush replacement would have been what ? £200 ?
I imagine your bill came to a figure that was many multiples of that ?
Did you request the old pads/discs back ?
Slippydiff said:
Bearing in mind the modified nature of your car, I'm shocked you have the car maintained by an OPC Ralph. All the more so when they force you to replace parts that have little or no bearing on the brake pedal bush failure.
This sounds like another case of an OPC creating work when it's not required.
The bush replacement would have been what ? £200 ?
I imagine your bill came to a figure that was many multiples of that ?
Did you request the old pads/discs back ?
I don't think I said I had used a Porsche Centre and I wasn't forced into anything.This sounds like another case of an OPC creating work when it's not required.
The bush replacement would have been what ? £200 ?
I imagine your bill came to a figure that was many multiples of that ?
Did you request the old pads/discs back ?
The consequence of the brakes being slightly on all the time (because of the bushing issue) was to prematurely wear the pads so they needed replacing as well as making the rear calipers hot. The front disks had started to show small cracks around the holes, despite cleaning after each track day so they were a scheduled replacement, albeit about 2k miles earlier than expected based on previous experience. I don't need to have parts back from garages I trust.
I don't scrimp on brakes as I do track days and have Donnington, Spa, Estoril, Portimao and Jerez coming up.
I have used Exeter Centre for a number of years and they have installed a few of my modifications but obviously not the engine nor suspension. I use them now just for scheduled servicing.
Anyway the point of the post was to warn 981 owners that they may have a lurking problem and anticipation might save them some money.
gtsralph said:
Anyway the point of the post was to warn 981 owners that they may have a lurking problem and anticipation might save them some money.
Agree. When my car came up for its first MOT I mentioned slight brake drag. As it turned out my car already had the modified bush and the OPC put the drag down to slight rust on the discs. gtsralph said:
I don't think I said I had used a Porsche Centre and I wasn't forced into anything.
The consequence of the brakes being slightly on all the time (because of the bushing issue) was to prematurely wear the pads so they needed replacing as well as making the rear calipers hot. The front disks had started to show small cracks around the holes, despite cleaning after each track day so they were a scheduled replacement, albeit about 2k miles earlier than expected based on previous experience. I don't need to have parts back from garages I trust.
I don't scrimp on brakes as I do track days and have Donnington, Spa, Estoril, Portimao and Jerez coming up.
I have used Exeter Centre for a number of years and they have installed a few of my modifications but obviously not the engine nor suspension. I use them now just for scheduled servicing.
Anyway the point of the post was to warn 981 owners that they may have a lurking problem and anticipation might save them some money.
Ahh, the use of an OPC was an incorrect assumption on my part. My humblest apologies The consequence of the brakes being slightly on all the time (because of the bushing issue) was to prematurely wear the pads so they needed replacing as well as making the rear calipers hot. The front disks had started to show small cracks around the holes, despite cleaning after each track day so they were a scheduled replacement, albeit about 2k miles earlier than expected based on previous experience. I don't need to have parts back from garages I trust.
I don't scrimp on brakes as I do track days and have Donnington, Spa, Estoril, Portimao and Jerez coming up.
I have used Exeter Centre for a number of years and they have installed a few of my modifications but obviously not the engine nor suspension. I use them now just for scheduled servicing.
Anyway the point of the post was to warn 981 owners that they may have a lurking problem and anticipation might save them some money.
Bit naughty Porsche washing their hands of the issue from a warranty perspective, though hardly surprising....
The weather for Classic Le Mans 2016 was very hot. On the way from Caen to Le Mans our MY13 Boxster S PDK suddenly showed a PSM off warning message. This was followed shortly after by a Stop/Start failure warning light. Other than these warnings the car seemed to be running normally.
Restarting after lunch, the warning lights had gone off but if I recall correctly a little yellow triangle with the number 2 inside it was showing on the dash.
Leaving Le Mans circuit the next day late in the afternoon the brakes jammed on and the only way to make progress was to drive with left foot hooked up under the brake pedal. After a few miles it seemed to clear.
On return to UK OPC fixed the pedal box under warranty. No other work was required at the time. Car has now gone and been replaced with one of the last N/A on a 16 plate which hopefully will have as a factory fit whatever modification was needed.
Restarting after lunch, the warning lights had gone off but if I recall correctly a little yellow triangle with the number 2 inside it was showing on the dash.
Leaving Le Mans circuit the next day late in the afternoon the brakes jammed on and the only way to make progress was to drive with left foot hooked up under the brake pedal. After a few miles it seemed to clear.
On return to UK OPC fixed the pedal box under warranty. No other work was required at the time. Car has now gone and been replaced with one of the last N/A on a 16 plate which hopefully will have as a factory fit whatever modification was needed.
lowndes said:
The weather for Classic Le Mans 2016 was very hot. On the way from Caen to Le Mans our MY13 Boxster S PDK suddenly showed a PSM off warning message. This was followed shortly after by a Stop/Start failure warning light. Other than these warnings the car seemed to be running normally.
Restarting after lunch, the warning lights had gone off but if I recall correctly a little yellow triangle with the number 2 inside it was showing on the dash.
Leaving Le Mans circuit the next day late in the afternoon the brakes jammed on and the only way to make progress was to drive with left foot hooked up under the brake pedal. After a few miles it seemed to clear.
On return to UK OPC fixed the pedal box under warranty. No other work was required at the time. Car has now gone and been replaced with one of the last N/A on a 16 plate which hopefully will have as a factory fit whatever modification was needed.
Replacement bushes made from a different material (that doesn't expand in the heat so much) seems to be the fix. A temporary fix seems to be turning the aircon up to maximum to cool the interior of the car, which from your description of the problem when leaving Le Mans may explain why the issue cleared after a few miles.Restarting after lunch, the warning lights had gone off but if I recall correctly a little yellow triangle with the number 2 inside it was showing on the dash.
Leaving Le Mans circuit the next day late in the afternoon the brakes jammed on and the only way to make progress was to drive with left foot hooked up under the brake pedal. After a few miles it seemed to clear.
On return to UK OPC fixed the pedal box under warranty. No other work was required at the time. Car has now gone and been replaced with one of the last N/A on a 16 plate which hopefully will have as a factory fit whatever modification was needed.
Slippydiff said:
Replacement bushes made from a different material (that doesn't expand in the heat so much) seems to be the fix. A temporary fix seems to be turning the aircon up to maximum to cool the interior of the car, which from your description of the problem when leaving Le Mans may explain why the issue cleared after a few miles.
I’m sure you’re right about the beneficial effect of lowering the temperature inside the car. Certainly, it had been baking in direct sunlight in the car park for several hours before the worst of the brake pedal sticking manifest itself.On a related point, presumably PSM switches itself off because it is getting conflicting signals from the various sensors and is trying to make sense of a scenario that was not originally contemplated by the IT design engineers who naively assumed Porsche would use suitable materials for important functions such as brakes. I guess stop start is disabled not so much for that function per se but rather for the associated coasting feature.
So, the next question must be what date did the cars come out of the factory with updated brake pedal bush mod...?
Mine is a july 2014 cayman.....
And how easy is it to get the bush out of the Pedal ?
If you can get it out easy, it must be an easy job to get a couple of thou out of the bush or just replace the old with the new for £8.50. ??
Gadgit
Mine is a july 2014 cayman.....
And how easy is it to get the bush out of the Pedal ?
If you can get it out easy, it must be an easy job to get a couple of thou out of the bush or just replace the old with the new for £8.50. ??
Gadgit
I assume that if the effect is obvious any Centre would fix it under warranty, if it is noticeable only now and again, best turn the heater up on the way to the Centre.
In terms of build dates, some were replaced in late 2013 so I think 2013 manufacture and maybe early 2014 manufacture but I do not actually know.
In terms of build dates, some were replaced in late 2013 so I think 2013 manufacture and maybe early 2014 manufacture but I do not actually know.
Hi all,
To confirm I had this work done around March time this year following a few weekends where I gradually felt the car braking. I had one experience where I let off the brake pedal and the car literally slowed down almost to a complete stop.
I phoned the OPC and they actually told me to phone the breakdown assistance who promptly organised a trailer the following day (along with a courtesy car). Two days later I had my car back with the new part and it has been fine ever since - cannot fault the service from the OPC at all, they were brilliant about it.
My car is a 63 reg 981 at 28k, just had my 4 yr service...so I'd expect OPC to be very nice to me for the forseeable...
To confirm I had this work done around March time this year following a few weekends where I gradually felt the car braking. I had one experience where I let off the brake pedal and the car literally slowed down almost to a complete stop.
I phoned the OPC and they actually told me to phone the breakdown assistance who promptly organised a trailer the following day (along with a courtesy car). Two days later I had my car back with the new part and it has been fine ever since - cannot fault the service from the OPC at all, they were brilliant about it.
My car is a 63 reg 981 at 28k, just had my 4 yr service...so I'd expect OPC to be very nice to me for the forseeable...
Edited by Dannythemusicman on Thursday 8th June 22:32
gtsralph said:
I assume that if the effect is obvious any Centre would fix it under warranty, if it is noticeable only now and again, best turn the heater up on the way to the Centre.
In terms of build dates, some were replaced in late 2013 so I think 2013 manufacture and maybe early 2014 manufacture but I do not actually know.
Mine is March 14 registration and has the new bush. However I bought the car at 6 months old (only 700 miles on the clock though) so I can't be sure if it was on the car when delivered. I suspect it was fitted from new - seems to fit with your proposed dates. In terms of build dates, some were replaced in late 2013 so I think 2013 manufacture and maybe early 2014 manufacture but I do not actually know.
I have had mine changed too.....
but
the material is harder and does expand, but now at the same rate as the cross shaft. The original bush did not expand as much as the cross shaft, which is why it binds. 991s have the same setup. If a bush expands, the hole gets bigger, not smaller..........
but
the material is harder and does expand, but now at the same rate as the cross shaft. The original bush did not expand as much as the cross shaft, which is why it binds. 991s have the same setup. If a bush expands, the hole gets bigger, not smaller..........
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