981 BGTS owner has loaded 781 BS for 2 days.......
Discussion
I fully concur the OP !
I used to have a CGTS, it was brilliant, the only let down for me was the steering, and that is just the only point that Porsche has improved on the 718 serie, hence a 10% faster steering rack.
So they did it wrong IMHO, the los of a NA 6 F, rev happy engine, sound second to none.
I`ve driven them all, the whole 718 series B an C, S and non-S, let me put it this way; the only decent 718 will be the next GT4 IMHO
I`ll politely will pass the 4F including next GTS.
Of course it is obvious that current 718 owner can not say they don`t like their purchase, I can understand that. No offense !!
I used to have a CGTS, it was brilliant, the only let down for me was the steering, and that is just the only point that Porsche has improved on the 718 serie, hence a 10% faster steering rack.
So they did it wrong IMHO, the los of a NA 6 F, rev happy engine, sound second to none.
I`ve driven them all, the whole 718 series B an C, S and non-S, let me put it this way; the only decent 718 will be the next GT4 IMHO
I`ll politely will pass the 4F including next GTS.
Of course it is obvious that current 718 owner can not say they don`t like their purchase, I can understand that. No offense !!
I can (sort of) understand the 718 owners using it as a daily either being not bothered or even liking the engine given the turbo diesel torque characteristics, but I'd much rather have my wife's Focus RS at half the price. It makes me smile a damn sight more than the loaner 718 BS I had ever did!
Romo said:
I fully concur the OP !
I used to have a CGTS, it was brilliant, the only let down for me was the steering, and that is just the only point that Porsche has improved on the 718 serie, hence a 10% faster steering rack.
So they did it wrong IMHO, the los of a NA 6 F, rev happy engine, sound second to none.
I`ve driven them all, the whole 718 series B an C, S and non-S, let me put it this way; the only decent 718 will be the next GT4 IMHO
I`ll politely will pass the 4F including next GTS.
Of course it is obvious that current 718 owner can not say they don`t like their purchase, I can understand that. No offense !!
Yep - and the 981 Spyder already has the 911 turbo steering rack that the 718 has and a 3.8 flat six!I used to have a CGTS, it was brilliant, the only let down for me was the steering, and that is just the only point that Porsche has improved on the 718 serie, hence a 10% faster steering rack.
So they did it wrong IMHO, the los of a NA 6 F, rev happy engine, sound second to none.
I`ve driven them all, the whole 718 series B an C, S and non-S, let me put it this way; the only decent 718 will be the next GT4 IMHO
I`ll politely will pass the 4F including next GTS.
Of course it is obvious that current 718 owner can not say they don`t like their purchase, I can understand that. No offense !!
I would still be sceptical about another flat-6 GT4, despite what may have been said. 981 GT4 production only ended last year, so it must be at least 12-18 months away based on Porsche's normal GT schedules.
From a marketing perspective, a flat-4 turbo would make sense to consolidate the appeal of the 718 range. However, not sure to what extent the GT4 race programme will dictate the decision.
From a marketing perspective, a flat-4 turbo would make sense to consolidate the appeal of the 718 range. However, not sure to what extent the GT4 race programme will dictate the decision.
I'm a 981 owner too but I found this review a little emotional. I've had the base 718 Boxster as a longer term courtesy car and had the opportunity to take it over some of my favourite roads in some remote areas, spec was good, manual but lacking pse.
I completely agree the drama in the 718 has gone but it's not a boring car to drive quickly, and they've made some notable improvements.
The first thing I like is that gearing makes it easier to choose a manual car this time around. I felt PDK in my 981 was the only option since the manual gear ratios are so ridiculously long, it's now far easier to redline in each gear on the road and actually use the box at the higher end of the rev range.
The steering as noted is a little bit better as is the cabin and general feel of the interior.
The 981 is a fine handling car but the 718 is a little bit better and the extra torque makes it easier to push the chassis.
Would I buy one to replace my 981 - probably not right now but I don't think the newer car is so bad that it deserves this type of write up- it's just something different. If you think the Macan is a better steer then your doing it wrong!
One of the reasons the GTS has such nice induction sound from the seat is the sound symposer tube directed from the drivers air box I wonder if the same could be done in the 718 as I believe the 991.2 uses a similar system to improve noise.
I completely agree the drama in the 718 has gone but it's not a boring car to drive quickly, and they've made some notable improvements.
The first thing I like is that gearing makes it easier to choose a manual car this time around. I felt PDK in my 981 was the only option since the manual gear ratios are so ridiculously long, it's now far easier to redline in each gear on the road and actually use the box at the higher end of the rev range.
The steering as noted is a little bit better as is the cabin and general feel of the interior.
The 981 is a fine handling car but the 718 is a little bit better and the extra torque makes it easier to push the chassis.
Would I buy one to replace my 981 - probably not right now but I don't think the newer car is so bad that it deserves this type of write up- it's just something different. If you think the Macan is a better steer then your doing it wrong!
One of the reasons the GTS has such nice induction sound from the seat is the sound symposer tube directed from the drivers air box I wonder if the same could be done in the 718 as I believe the 991.2 uses a similar system to improve noise.
daz05 said:
Would I buy one to replace my 981 - probably not right now but I don't think the newer car is so bad that it deserves this type of write up- it's just something different. If you think the Macan is a better steer then your doing it wrong!
I have to agree, though I'm no great fan of the 718 many of the comments are clearly over the top. I cannot believe that anyone who has actually driven a turbo diesel can regard them in sound/lag/rev range anything like the 718 (both good and bad). Anyone who has owned a (standard) Subaru (I have - two) can suggest there is much similarity (good and bad again) and while I think the Macan is remarkably good for an SUV to suggest that it is the same league as a 718 steering/handling wise is quite beyond me.Edited by bcr5784 on Wednesday 2nd August 19:39
As a final update......the 718 was returned today after about as mixed a day driving as you could get (short of getting it on track)...... 50 mile motorway commute, 50 A/B road in the wet, followed by 25 mile motorway with roof down.
I would imagine (cough) that the car is only in its comfort zone going in a straight line on the motorway, the faster the more it comes into its own as you go up and down the gears. It is faster, more responsive than the 981 without a shadow of a doubt. There is no "event" to this other than the raw shove in the back from the turbo. Do the same in the 981 and its slower but that only gives you more time to appreciate the experience it gives you. The shove in the back is not as great but the feeling of wanting to do it again and again is much greater.
Here is the rub, get off the motorway and the 718 is truly an awful drive. All that I hate in FI cars as their worst and it really does sound terrible. Now I'm a bit weird, I enjoy driving in the wet. The 718 is typical turbo power delivery in the wet, slightly scary, unpredictable and therefore unpleasant, you have to drive well within your ability as you feel it may bite you at any time. That all or nothing digital power delivery of a turbo I moved away from a long time ago when I realized driving pleaseure is not about straight line speed. If I'd done the same B roads in the wet in the 981 I know I would have enjoyed the drive so much more. The power delivery is just so much more analogue, linear and therefore predicatable. I will happily get the rear end to squirm in the 981 with full confidence it will fall into line with slight adjustments of throttle, engine braking into deep pends to carry the revs through with a balance and smoothness that is rewarding and enjoyable i.e. Fun. It is simply not possible to get the same experience in the 718. The car feels unsettled, the auto box gets confused, the power delivery is uncertain. It was clear I would never have a 718 in PDK. A manual box would make it more controllable but I fear at the expense of exaggerating the turbo lag the PDK tries to hide. The arguments that the 718 is a better handling car are totally irrelevent, any difference being ruined, masked by the engine.
There is turbo lag and don't let anyone tell you there is not. The PDK box is definately compromised in trying to mask it, but by example I did an overtake today, dropping the gears in preparation when I had to hesitate before committing, that slight hesitation took the turbo off boost and when committed there was that classic turbo "nothing" before all hell broke lose and the shove in the back. No doubt there are those who love that classic turbo experience, fine when in a straight line and in the dry but I would much much rather have the smooth predicatable, controllable power delivery of a great NA engine. Yes I may be a tenth slower but boy does it feel safer and more enjoyable getting there.
So finally it was time to hand the car back. To be fair I was asked did I like it. We had an honest chat about why I did not. The only real response was "the GTS is a great car". It is and I appreciate it even more now. The drive home in heavy rain was sublime, fun, rewarding everything the 718 was not.
Ps I did like the color though ;-)
I would imagine (cough) that the car is only in its comfort zone going in a straight line on the motorway, the faster the more it comes into its own as you go up and down the gears. It is faster, more responsive than the 981 without a shadow of a doubt. There is no "event" to this other than the raw shove in the back from the turbo. Do the same in the 981 and its slower but that only gives you more time to appreciate the experience it gives you. The shove in the back is not as great but the feeling of wanting to do it again and again is much greater.
Here is the rub, get off the motorway and the 718 is truly an awful drive. All that I hate in FI cars as their worst and it really does sound terrible. Now I'm a bit weird, I enjoy driving in the wet. The 718 is typical turbo power delivery in the wet, slightly scary, unpredictable and therefore unpleasant, you have to drive well within your ability as you feel it may bite you at any time. That all or nothing digital power delivery of a turbo I moved away from a long time ago when I realized driving pleaseure is not about straight line speed. If I'd done the same B roads in the wet in the 981 I know I would have enjoyed the drive so much more. The power delivery is just so much more analogue, linear and therefore predicatable. I will happily get the rear end to squirm in the 981 with full confidence it will fall into line with slight adjustments of throttle, engine braking into deep pends to carry the revs through with a balance and smoothness that is rewarding and enjoyable i.e. Fun. It is simply not possible to get the same experience in the 718. The car feels unsettled, the auto box gets confused, the power delivery is uncertain. It was clear I would never have a 718 in PDK. A manual box would make it more controllable but I fear at the expense of exaggerating the turbo lag the PDK tries to hide. The arguments that the 718 is a better handling car are totally irrelevent, any difference being ruined, masked by the engine.
There is turbo lag and don't let anyone tell you there is not. The PDK box is definately compromised in trying to mask it, but by example I did an overtake today, dropping the gears in preparation when I had to hesitate before committing, that slight hesitation took the turbo off boost and when committed there was that classic turbo "nothing" before all hell broke lose and the shove in the back. No doubt there are those who love that classic turbo experience, fine when in a straight line and in the dry but I would much much rather have the smooth predicatable, controllable power delivery of a great NA engine. Yes I may be a tenth slower but boy does it feel safer and more enjoyable getting there.
So finally it was time to hand the car back. To be fair I was asked did I like it. We had an honest chat about why I did not. The only real response was "the GTS is a great car". It is and I appreciate it even more now. The drive home in heavy rain was sublime, fun, rewarding everything the 718 was not.
Ps I did like the color though ;-)
I too can understand a preference for the 981, but some of the comments about the 718 are an overreaction and misleading to readers considering buying one. If you are looking for a new sports car then I urge you to try one and decide for yourself.
Some people want to buy a new car, and in the new car market the 718 is an excellent choice - it wins hands down against other new 2 seater sports cars. As the 981 ages most of the naysayers will indeed change their car, maybe not to a 718 but whatever follows after that.
There is a lot of speculation about the next GT4, I would doubt it will be NA despite the rumours, it could be a highly tuned 2.5 F4, but I think it will follow the trend of using the base Carrera engine, so a F6 turbo would be my prediction.
Some people want to buy a new car, and in the new car market the 718 is an excellent choice - it wins hands down against other new 2 seater sports cars. As the 981 ages most of the naysayers will indeed change their car, maybe not to a 718 but whatever follows after that.
There is a lot of speculation about the next GT4, I would doubt it will be NA despite the rumours, it could be a highly tuned 2.5 F4, but I think it will follow the trend of using the base Carrera engine, so a F6 turbo would be my prediction.
I don't know if you read my thoughts on my 718 loan car on the other thread. Personally I found the sports response button quite useful for overtakes, especially as it gave immediate power. That said, it may well be a bit of a band aid to circumvent turbo lag 
I've had some cars with pretty awful turbo lag. To the point where your actually watching by the rev counter slowly build up until the boost comes on. That said I've found the 718 feels a lot more linear and smoother than other turbo cars I've driven, the downside is that you generally have to be mindful of keeping in the power band with the turbo spooling.
What colour was it?
I've had some cars with pretty awful turbo lag. To the point where your actually watching by the rev counter slowly build up until the boost comes on. That said I've found the 718 feels a lot more linear and smoother than other turbo cars I've driven, the downside is that you generally have to be mindful of keeping in the power band with the turbo spooling. What colour was it?
Believe me I don't usually have such strong views, each to their own but I was truly shocked at the experiences and what Porsche have done to such a great driving machine
Of course there are plenty who will own and enjoy their car but it could / should have been so much more.
It may well be the end of another era for porsche with the shift to FI / hybrid cars which in time will be inconsequential to new buyers. Hopefully the 718 is a stepping stone to better things much as the 996 was ;-)
Of course there are plenty who will own and enjoy their car but it could / should have been so much more.
It may well be the end of another era for porsche with the shift to FI / hybrid cars which in time will be inconsequential to new buyers. Hopefully the 718 is a stepping stone to better things much as the 996 was ;-)
Pinball said:
I don't know if you read my thoughts on my 718 loan car on the other thread. Personally I found the sports response button quite useful for overtakes, especially as it gave immediate power. That said, it may well be a bit of a band aid to circumvent turbo lag I've had some cars with pretty awful turbo lag. To the point where your actually watching by the rev counter slowly build up until the boost comes on. That said I've found the 718 feels a lot more linear and smoother than other turbo cars I've driven, the downside is that you generally have to be mindful of keeping in the power band with the turbo spooling.
What colour was it?
Yellow, my only previous examples of yellow cars have been ferrari, the last being an F12 TDF (which got flipped in a week). I've always loved the 981 / 718 shape, it is a mini ferrari , the yellow suited it so well. I've had some cars with pretty awful turbo lag. To the point where your actually watching by the rev counter slowly build up until the boost comes on. That said I've found the 718 feels a lot more linear and smoother than other turbo cars I've driven, the downside is that you generally have to be mindful of keeping in the power band with the turbo spooling. What colour was it?
Jontt maybe your driving style is just not suited to the 718. When I drove the 718BS at the PEC I was able to get straight in and have the car rotating around very naturally on the throttle. Something I have yet to accomplish in quite the same way in my 981BS.
I was too busy having a great time to notice the exhaust note. Although on reflection I do agree it wasn't the same aural delight as mine with PSE.
I would probably buy one in the future, but still having fun in mine at the moment. And I think an Exige V6 will probably be next on the list.
I was too busy having a great time to notice the exhaust note. Although on reflection I do agree it wasn't the same aural delight as mine with PSE.
I would probably buy one in the future, but still having fun in mine at the moment. And I think an Exige V6 will probably be next on the list.
Gorsh said:
I too can understand a preference for the 981, but some of the comments about the 718 are an overreaction and misleading to readers considering buying one. If you are looking for a new sports car then I urge you to try one and decide for yourself.
Some people want to buy a new car, and in the new car market the 718 is an excellent choice - it wins hands down against other new 2 seater sports cars. As the 981 ages most of the naysayers will indeed change their car, maybe not to a 718 but whatever follows after that.
There is a lot of speculation about the next GT4, I would doubt it will be NA despite the rumours, it could be a highly tuned 2.5 F4, but I think it will follow the trend of using the base Carrera engine, so a F6 turbo would be my prediction.
This is true if you have to buy a new car, but when you widen to the second hand market the case for the 718 becomes weak. Especially when you look at Spyder / GT4 which have any benefits (steering etc) and will have better residuals.Some people want to buy a new car, and in the new car market the 718 is an excellent choice - it wins hands down against other new 2 seater sports cars. As the 981 ages most of the naysayers will indeed change their car, maybe not to a 718 but whatever follows after that.
There is a lot of speculation about the next GT4, I would doubt it will be NA despite the rumours, it could be a highly tuned 2.5 F4, but I think it will follow the trend of using the base Carrera engine, so a F6 turbo would be my prediction.
When OPC staff aren't into the 718, things can't be good!
Caveat all of the above with the the fact that the 718 is not a crap car, it just has a boring engine.
To me, and others, the engine is the heart and soul of the car. Naturally aspirated engines are something to cherish in 2017 when everything is going turbo!
There are many more years ahead to buy and enjoy possibly even better turbo engines than we have now. I am not sure the same can be said of NA engines? That's why it's exciting to me to see stuff like the ferrari 812 - an NA V12 at this point will be getting pretty honed to perfection!
n4aat said:
Jontt maybe your driving style is just not suited to the 718. When I drove the 718BS at the PEC I was able to get straight in and have the car rotating around very naturally on the throttle. Something I have yet to accomplish in quite the same way in my 981BS.
I think that was his point... the 718 rear end is to happy to slide out when the turbo comes in. Yes?DJMC said:
I think that was his point... the 718 rear end is to happy to slide out when the turbo comes in. Yes?
I don't think it was turbo related. Power delivery felt linear to me once on the boil. I guess it is a little different driving on a track as opposed to public roads where there is a lot more off throttle time which requires the turbo to wind up again. It is definitely power related though. The 718 has so much more torque in the mid range. You need more delicate inputs with the 718 compared to the 981. Situations where you can plant your foot in the 981 need more judicious inputs. I also think the N1 tyres are more progressive than the N0 allowing you to approach the limit of grip more comfortably with a much wider window.n4aat said:
I don't think it was turbo related. Power delivery felt linear to me once on the boil. I guess it is a little different driving on a track as opposed to public roads where there is a lot more off throttle time which requires the turbo to wind up again. It is definitely power related though. The 718 has so much more torque in the mid range. You need more delicate inputs with the 718 compared to the 981. Situations where you can plant your foot in the 981 need more judicious inputs. I also think the N1 tyres are more progressive than the N0 allowing you to approach the limit of grip more comfortably with a much wider window.
I'd agree with that. If people are not finding the handling better than the 981 I do wonder whether the cars were set up right. I certainly found from my own 981 that throttle adjustability is sensitive to rear toe (mine was toed-in when I got it) and steering feel to front toe. - as well as the point made about tyres. There are significant differences N0 to N1 Pirellis (as stated) and Goodyears too. Of course you can't check whether the geo is right, but I have got to the stage when having a demo to checking the tyre brand - and on occasion tyre pressure.
Gassing Station | Boxster/Cayman | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff