981 BGTS owner has loaded 781 BS for 2 days.......

[jonttt]

n4aat said:

I don't think it was turbo related. Power delivery felt linear to me once on the boil. I guess it is a little different driving on a track as opposed to public roads where there is a lot more off throttle time which requires the turbo to wind up again. It is definitely power related though. The 718 has so much more torque in the mid range. You need more delicate inputs with the 718 compared to the 981. Situations where you can plant your foot in the 981 need more judicious inputs. I also think the N1 tyres are more progressive than the N0 allowing you to approach the limit of grip more comfortably with a much wider window.

I think driving the 718 on track would flatter it compared to road use. It was by far at its happiest on the motorway when turbo boost could be retained much easier. On "real" roads in "real" situations it is what it is ie a turbo engined car. You can't beat physics no matter how good the turbo engine but this was by no means towards the good end of being a good turbo drive. I still can't quite get over how bad the driving experience was to me. Yes the 981 is such a good engine / drive that it suffers from that comparison, Yes I am not really into Turbo engines any more much preferring NA engines and I expected to be biased to that, its why I bought a 981 in the first place BUT I drive many many powerful turbo sports cars many of which I like / can appreciate. The 718 was at the opposite end of the scale for me, a horrible experience. A lot of that feeling is obviously subjective but the car just did not feel right in many ways :

- induction sound
- PDK gearbox trying to mask turbo lack producing some truly horrid gearchanges, at times pushing on when it should be engine braking and no blip down aural sensation to accompany it
- unpredictability of turbo "snap" in the wet/twisties does not inspire as much confidence
- an underlying "roughness" to the engine tone/feel
- the steering was just too light for me. My understanding was that PS+ assists at low speeds and then turns off. I did not realise it turns off when sport mode activated. I drove in manual mainly but sport mode when not (with PSE on and off) and in all circumstances it just felt too light for me. Thats very much a personal preference of course.

I'm sure Porsche will get to grips with this with the next version, there is plenty of scope for it IMHO ;-)

[Romo]

^copy that !

-4F T engine is raw, resonating
-PDK is not as flaweless as with the 6F NA

The 6F GTS combo with the PDK was just awesome, so smooth, so awake

If there is a 718 GT4 NA 6F on the horizon, it would be my pick, if it comes with choice 6MT-PDK, it would be PDK. We`ll see wat the future brings

[WCZ]

my experience mirrors OP's completely, don't know how anyone could put up with that steering

[Twinfan]

bcr5784 said:

If people are not finding the handling better than the 981 I do wonder whether the cars were set up right.

I didn't find any noticeable handling difference between the two. The steering was definitely quicker on the new car but I found that it then became less precise as a result.

[bcr5784]

Twinfan said:

bcr5784 said:

If people are not finding the handling better than the 981 I do wonder whether the cars were set up right.

I didn't find any noticeable handling difference between the two. The steering was definitely quicker on the new car but I found that it then became less precise as a result.

That's my point. Although there are many hightly critical motoring press reviews of 718, they seem unanimous in regarding both steering and handling improved. That was certainly my impression. That not to say that was true of the car you drove - hence my comment.

[mr pg]

I have a 981 CS, so well familiar with the engine. However, after 3 fortnight trips around Europe (including plenty of mountain passes), I have found it a little lacking in one respect.
With both boots full to the brim, stuff on the engine cover, a full tank, and two adults, the dip in the torque curve between 2500-4000rpm is noticeable, and I've found can limit the ability for an overtake, particularly when added to the known tall gearing. This aspect seems to have been omitted in comments in this thread. It's performance isn't linear, as there is a definite jump at 4k.
Whilst a lovely engine, it's not perfect, and why I've begun making enquiries about the 718GTS. The Porsche guy I spoke with at Silverstone last weekend said the exhaust note is the one thing everyone (inside Porsche as well) comments about, and his response when I said the GTS would be a good opportunity to improve was 'lets wait and see'. Said with a smile.
Re the steering/handling, every road test report/video I've seen has said it's better in this department, which seems the opposite to some comments on here.
Hopefully the GTS will address some/many of the 'issues' discussed.

[Koln-RS]

mr pg said:

With both boots full to the brim, stuff on the engine cover, a full tank, and two adults.....

That's exactly what I love about these cars.

You can commute to/from work, take in the occasional 'track day' with no mods, then load it to the gunnels, go on holiday, touring Europe, with only a small cost to performance. Perfect.

[anonymous-user]

Twinfan said:

I didn't find any noticeable handling difference between the two.

Similarly, apart from the engine, I found no material difference between driving my 981 and driving the 718 which OPC gave me as a loan car.

[PhantomPH]

mr pg said:

Whilst a lovely engine, it's not perfect, and why I've begun making enquiries about the 718GTS. The Porsche guy I spoke with at Silverstone last weekend said the exhaust note is the one thing everyone (inside Porsche as well) comments about, and his response when I said the GTS would be a good opportunity to improve was 'lets wait and see'. Said with a smile.

And with the rumoured 370hp, hat might be all the redemption the 718 needs to finally get some respect!

As much as I love everything about my CGTS, I know the day will come when I am ready to 'move on'. And unless I can afford Lambo money, I am resigned to the fact that it will be back into the turbo world that I used to be part of. However if the emotional connection with the car can replicate the one I have with the CGTS (which YES is hugely to do with the engine and sound) then it might not be that tough a break up.

[Twinfan]

rockin said:

Similarly, apart from the engine, I found no material difference between driving my 981 and driving the 718 which OPC gave me as a loan car.

I reckon the press reports about improved handling are just journalistic fluff for something to write about other than the engine. It's a minor facelift only on the chassis side, so differences will be minimal at best.

[bcr5784]

Twinfan said:

I reckon the press reports about improved handling are just journalistic fluff for something to write about other than the engine. It's a minor facelift only on the chassis side, so differences will be minimal at best.

You can only say as you find. But (as an ex Lotus and Caterham owner) steering feel is important to me and, on the same tyres, the 781 was a clear improvement. Throttle adjustability is also key and the 781 was better in that regard too - but that was doubtless influenced by the extra torque (once the turbo was spooled up). Minor uplift? You might say that but down part of my test route the 781 was, for me, more enjoyable. The rest of the time was a different matter.

What would I prefer on track? A 718 (I wouldn't even notice the noise and would avoid the lag). On the road - the 981, by a big margin.

Edited by bcr5784 on Thursday 3rd August 19:43

[AW10]

Funny how the 718 gets slated for its engine noise lacking "soul". I went from a Z4M to a BGTS - in the Z4M I could hear the induction, the mechanical noise of the engine and the exhaust as three separate sounds. In the BGTS there seems to be just one almost indistinct sound with a lot less "soul" than the Z4M. But all-in-all I still prefer the package of the BGTS.

Glad we have so many choices!

[Prestonese]

AW10 said:

Funny how the 718 gets slated for its engine noise lacking "soul". I went from a Z4M to a BGTS - in the Z4M I could hear the induction, the mechanical noise of the engine and the exhaust as three separate sounds. In the BGTS there seems to be just one almost indistinct sound with a lot less "soul" than the Z4M. But all-in-all I still prefer the package of the BGTS.
Glad we have so many choices!

Funny that. I went the other way from CGTS TO Z4M. On one hand I love the old school characteristic of the Z4M but I also despair at the lack of finesse. The inner hooligan in me though thinks it's great fun. The CGTS though is a great all round package and would be my choice again if I wanted something to cover all bases.

[jonttt]

I happen to own a Z3m, it's a very late S54 engines schnitzer car, one of 4 imola in RHD. Let's just say the Z4m was to large / refined for me lol. As much as I love the straight 6 unit (mine has a red line lifted to 8k) it does not compare to the sound of the boxster 6 even with a full eisenmann race exhaust fitted. It is louder though lol

[Jefferson Steelflex]

OP - it does appear from what you've written that there is a little bit of confirmation bias in your assessment. You expected to hate it and that's exactly what you've found.

Your write-up is also contrary to every single professional road test I've read or watched. They all say the 718 is a better car in almost every respect versus the 981, bar the engine noise. I've finally driven both and i couldn't tell much difference between the two (but I'm not exactly a driving god so no surprise there), apart from the engine noise was certainly louder in the 981.

We all have different opinions, and not everyone cares about a screaming engine. I've got a 718 on order and i may still change my mind if there is a 981 GTS for sale nearer the time i am ready to take delivery, but I won't be upset if I get to keep my 718. Yes it doesn't sound as good but that's not the be-all and end-all for many people, including me.

I do appreciate the write up though, it's certainly food for thought and something to explore in more depth when I get to the PEC day.

[Si-3PO]

The noise topic is interesting.

For as long as I can remember I've been turning my head to see what the nice sounding car is coming down the road, literally laughed in excitement upon hearing some of the vehicles my Dad owned and in recent years watched thousands of videos of cars just to hear engines and exhaust notes.

My BGTS was amongst the best sounding cars I've owned but I could name hundreds of cars that I think sound better. I've never let my love of hearing amazing sounding cars drive my purchases, I'd never have bought my first 987 CS if sound was that important!

My love of Porsche is primarily down to the way they drive, nothing else I've owned (with the possible exception of a couple of Lotus's) has inspired the confidence I feel when pressing on in a Porsche. The added bonuses are the looks, noise, build quality, and relatively cheap running costs.

Do I think the 981 sounds better than a 718? Yeah I do. But out of the 4 PEC days I've done I've never had more fun driving a car there than I did in the 718, it blew me away. And that's why I can't wait to start properly experiencing my own car on the road when I collect it from the detailers tomorrow

[jonttt]

Jefferson Steelflex said:

OP - it does appear from what you've written that there is a little bit of confirmation bias in your assessment. You expected to hate it and that's exactly what you've found.

Your write-up is also contrary to every single professional road test I've read or watched. They all say the 718 is a better car in almost every respect versus the 981, bar the engine noise. I've finally driven both and i couldn't tell much difference between the two (but I'm not exactly a driving god so no surprise there), apart from the engine noise was certainly louder in the 981.

We all have different opinions, and not everyone cares about a screaming engine. I've got a 718 on order and i may still change my mind if there is a 981 GTS for sale nearer the time i am ready to take delivery, but I won't be upset if I get to keep my 718. Yes it doesn't sound as good but that's not the be-all and end-all for many people, including me.

I do appreciate the write up though, it's certainly food for thought and something to explore in more depth when I get to the PEC day.

Actually I did not expect to hate it. As implied I expected to prefer the 981 but I was looking forward to driving the 781. I waited longer to take my car in to specifically try a 718. Why do that if I knew I would hate it ? There are plenty of turbo cars I enjoy driving I just prefer NA engines generally. I was not expecting to even write about it. THe fact I have is an indication of how genuinely shocked I was by the experience.

[jonttt]

Si-3PO said:

....My BGTS was amongst the best sounding cars I've owned but I could name hundreds of cars that I think sound better....

.

Really.

I'm curious now, how many of them are turbo charged ?

I added one more to my short list recently, the 911R sublime and .... NA ;-)

[jimmy p]

I booked my 981 in for some warranty work yesterday at opc. Was offered a merc as loan car or porsche if I wait another week. Plumped to wait as was looking forward to getting a 718 to test for myself, was surprised when told it would be a macan. Made me wonder why they were not giving 718s out as loan cars??

[PhantomPH]

jimmy p said:

I booked my 981 in for some warranty work yesterday at opc. Was offered a merc as loan car or porsche if I wait another week. Plumped to wait as was looking forward to getting a 718 to test for myself, was surprised when told it would be a macan. Made me wonder why they were not giving 718s out as loan cars??

I had a Macan recently as well. I figured the 718 is still a bit 'in demand' so they probably don't have many to lend out - or they have become very mileage sensitive cars so don't want to put lots on? Regardless, the Macan was surprisingly nice. My OH has a very high spec Q5 so the inevitable comparisons were made. Ultimately she said she would rather have her car and the £10k difference in her pocket.

Maybe Porsche have identified that a Macan is a good complimentary car to their sports car range and so are putting people in them in the hope that they ship a few to people as well as their 991/718/981/etc. The one I had was fresh off the truck - 16 miles on the clock.