The 718 GT4 might be arriving sooner than you think!
Discussion
Fokker said:
For those who doubted me. 100% confirmation today that the road going GT4 doesn’t have the clubsports 3.8.
Power is apparently almost the same though. I don’t have an exact figure.
Personally I think it will be a shame if they have gone 4.0l and same power!Power is apparently almost the same though. I don’t have an exact figure.
Perhaps it is the f4 with 425hp;)
like for like cars, the one with the most torque at corner exit will post the faster lap, it's that basic, race cars don't live at max revs !!
I see the new CS has upped the peak torque rpm over the older car from 6k to 6.6k but the same 420nm.
Acceleration is directly proportional to the torque put through the wheels.
I don't think the moose man gets Torque, reading what he posts about torque the last 10 years, it's all about the high rpm for him.
and if he thinks a race car enters a bend at max RPM one can under stand why he has never got it !
I see the new CS has upped the peak torque rpm over the older car from 6k to 6.6k but the same 420nm.
Acceleration is directly proportional to the torque put through the wheels.
I don't think the moose man gets Torque, reading what he posts about torque the last 10 years, it's all about the high rpm for him.
and if he thinks a race car enters a bend at max RPM one can under stand why he has never got it !
Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 15th January 12:40
FTW said:
Ever since the introduction of power to weight classifications. Most do not include a torque to weight limit.
Torque is also important in multi-class racing for negotiating and overtaking traffic.
The 981 Clubsport was also dog slow at launch!
But there isn't really a power to weight classification for BoP in gt4. It's set on a 'representative' laptime the car is supposed to be capable of. SRO are supposed to have their own pro drivers driving the car to set that laptime. If the 981 was dog slow at launch, it wouldn't be due to lacking torque as it already produced the bulk of it's power way before the rev limit and it wasn't power restricted. Neither afaik is the 718 going to be so presumably it's going to be carrying even more weight.Torque is also important in multi-class racing for negotiating and overtaking traffic.
The 981 Clubsport was also dog slow at launch!
If the new gt4 was really 10s faster at the ring it'd just have been restricted down anyway to be closer to what the other gt4 class cars are running. Political manoeuvring apart, BoP is supposed to allow the cars to compete on a relatively even basis. Spending a heap to produce a much faster car isn't the point of GT class racing.
isaldiri said:
. Political manoeuvring apart, BoP is supposed to allow the cars to compete on a relatively even basis. Spending a heap to produce a much faster car isn't the point of GT class racing.
BoP just allows the correct car to win in the years they want to win, bit of a fix as they can choose which car wins these days, that's not racing.Porsche won in the correct year as did Ford and so on, bit of a joke Bop, makes you wonder what back handers go on with BoP regs when you see cars down the straights leaves other standing !
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I was also gong to add in my last post you will post some impossible engine configuration, it's a given, and funny as ****, it's also a given you don't under stand how to get a lap time, what torque is or where a engine on track spends most of it's life in the rev band.race cars don't spend much time at max bhp as they don't live at the peak revs ! race cars are in the most accelerating or braking, hitting max bhp very few times a lap. what is key is the skill in corner entry to get on the throttle as early as possible to max corner exit speeds and thus as I stated Acceleration is directly proportional to the torque put through the wheels at that point when the car is at 6k revs, bhp will give you the speed at the end of the straight.
Torque wins races hence turbo base non GT cars lap faster than NA GT cars if they had cups 2 on.
a 718 GTS would lap faster than a GT4 with like for like weight, rubber and geo but the 718 is way down on BHP over a GT4.
Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 15th January 13:12
The fastest way to drive is to keep the engine it in its power-band - that's why cars have gearboxes.
Torque is the rotational product of the initially linear force from the output shaft - it's not a separate mysterious force that helps with cornering.
The easiest example for me would be the screaming two stroke motorcycle and kart engines of my youth - very narrow power-band, hence lots of revs in order to go quickly.
Torque is the rotational product of the initially linear force from the output shaft - it's not a separate mysterious force that helps with cornering.
The easiest example for me would be the screaming two stroke motorcycle and kart engines of my youth - very narrow power-band, hence lots of revs in order to go quickly.
Power at the wheels at a given speed is a proponent of both Torque and Revs..Power is simply a multiplication of Torque x Revs.What counts in real life is the area under the curve which is directly related to the formula above.
As an example:
Car A produces 400 Torque at say 3k revs
Car B produces 350 Torque at say 3k revs
Car A produces more WHP at 3k revs.
As an example:
Car A produces 400 Torque at say 3k revs
Car B produces 350 Torque at say 3k revs
Car A produces more WHP at 3k revs.
Edited by Taffy66 on Tuesday 15th January 13:55
Edited by Taffy66 on Tuesday 15th January 13:59
Edited by Taffy66 on Tuesday 15th January 14:00
isaldiri said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
It seems that is lost on a lot of people tbh. Well that and the reason why gearboxes exist....We had this exact scenario at Brand Hatch.
Torque gives you more options in traffic where you can find yourself in the wrong gear or between the ideal gear ration to be maintain peak power. Having more torque also makes a car quicker during a race especially in a converted road car using road car gear ratios that are not optimised for each circuit.
FTW said:
Having raced a GT4 spec car in a power to weight classification race series I can ensure you that when power is capped and torque isn't, torque becomes king! It also gives you more options. It can be quicker to be in a lower gear further down the power curve but have more torque as you save the time on completing an up shift through this device you call a gearbox.
We had this exact scenario at Brand Hatch.
Torque gives you more options in traffic where you can find yourself in the wrong gear or between the ideal gear ration to be maintain peak power. Having more torque also makes a car quicker during a race especially in a converted road car using road car gear ratios that are not optimised for each circuit.
Well yes I agree if power is being limited more torque allows for the maximum allowed power to be reached earlier. However as I said the BoP adjustments exist to allow cars to do similar laptimes. That, in theory is being taken into account. We had this exact scenario at Brand Hatch.
Torque gives you more options in traffic where you can find yourself in the wrong gear or between the ideal gear ration to be maintain peak power. Having more torque also makes a car quicker during a race especially in a converted road car using road car gear ratios that are not optimised for each circuit.
Was the 981 gt4 cs even limited in power anyway in gt4? I don't think the ginetta that is a couple of hundred kg lighter is limited much if at all and it's 355hp vs 380 as the 981 was allowed more grip (bigger tyres).
FTW said:
Having raced a GT4 spec car in a power to weight classification race series I can ensure you that when power is capped and torque isn't, torque becomes king! It also gives you more options. It can be quicker to be in a lower gear further down the power curve but have more torque as you save the time on completing an up shift through this device you call a gearbox.
We had this exact scenario at Brand Hatch.
Torque gives you more options in traffic where you can find yourself in the wrong gear or between the ideal gear ration to be maintain peak power. Having more torque also makes a car quicker during a race especially in a converted road car using road car gear ratios that are not optimised for each circuit.
You will also use less feul so you can run longer in endurance events without the need to pit. The downside is that too much of it can eat your driven tyres and may consiquently lead to a compromised driving style. On balance, for a BOP scenario i'd be with you but to cam an engine for max torque generally means sacrificing power which, without BOP regs would be what you would prefer and just gear it appropriately. We had this exact scenario at Brand Hatch.
Torque gives you more options in traffic where you can find yourself in the wrong gear or between the ideal gear ration to be maintain peak power. Having more torque also makes a car quicker during a race especially in a converted road car using road car gear ratios that are not optimised for each circuit.
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