The 718 GT4 might be arriving sooner than you think!
Discussion
nudgerwilliams said:
My GT4 has just had new front steel discs at 9.5k miles, 7 or 8 track days, and about 15 laps of the Ring. £2.2k. I steered clear of ceramics when I specced the car because of worries about replacement costs given I was intending to use it on track, but the steels aren't working out to be cheap.
I suspect aftermarket steels are the most cost-effective option, but then that gives all the warranty issues.
David
sounds more realistic than 30 days from steels for sure.I suspect aftermarket steels are the most cost-effective option, but then that gives all the warranty issues.
David
and at £2k a pop is why I said PCCB are no more expensive to run these days.
Porsche911R said:
nudgerwilliams said:
My GT4 has just had new front steel discs at 9.5k miles, 7 or 8 track days, and about 15 laps of the Ring. £2.2k. I steered clear of ceramics when I specced the car because of worries about replacement costs given I was intending to use it on track, but the steels aren't working out to be cheap.
I suspect aftermarket steels are the most cost-effective option, but then that gives all the warranty issues.
David
sounds more realistic than 30 days from steels for sure.I suspect aftermarket steels are the most cost-effective option, but then that gives all the warranty issues.
David
and at £2k a pop is why I said PCCB are no more expensive to run these days.
As I said if you look on Rennlist guys with 991 GT models are getting much more durability with different pads and changing the rotors when they are properly worn not when the OPC suggests so.
Rennlist documents proper real world PCCB vs steel comparison with empirical data rather than your armchair understanding.
993rsr said:
What an OPC suggests should be replaced and what actually needs replacing even you would agree are two different things entirely!
As I said if you look on Rennlist guys with 991 GT models are getting much more durability with different pads and changing the rotors when they are properly worn not when the OPC suggests so.
Rennlist documents proper real world PCCB vs steel comparison with empirical data rather than your armchair understanding.
It's a circle of doom normally, fit some race pads, stay out longer crack disks and pucks. Or fit harder pads wear disks faster.As I said if you look on Rennlist guys with 991 GT models are getting much more durability with different pads and changing the rotors when they are properly worn not when the OPC suggests so.
Rennlist documents proper real world PCCB vs steel comparison with empirical data rather than your armchair understanding.
the point you missed is rather than £100 steel disks I think my 996 disks were £65 a side + vat, modern GT steels are bloody expensive.
I have seen people get 4 track days and some 20 so it depends on pads and the track and how far to 100% you want to get, A REASON I avoided the Donnington GP layout, it's a brake killer, where the National layout is easy on brakes.
I tend to slow down on the straights on track as who needs lap times on track days, some people are gun vmax mad for the lap time and thus will wear brakes, a BIG trend is fitting GT3 MC to stop the pedal getting long due to heat but not fixing the heat issue in the 1st place. these sorts of owners would be lucky to get 4 days from disks.
it's all about heat but I guess you would know this ;-)
Fitting race pads to track cars with disks made of cheese = short life.
Possibly a driving style issue ........ as can get a full 24 hour event on one set .
Anyway a mate just took his 720 S to Spa and need a new set of front Ceramic discs and pads after 5 laps apparently , he is a real point and squirt expert and hard on the brakes .... good thing there was full service facility there !
A Senna ran a 2.23 apparently which is interesting .
Anyway a mate just took his 720 S to Spa and need a new set of front Ceramic discs and pads after 5 laps apparently , he is a real point and squirt expert and hard on the brakes .... good thing there was full service facility there !
A Senna ran a 2.23 apparently which is interesting .
Porsche911R said:
hunter 66 said:
Haha yes rsr , real world , also only takes an hour or so to change your own
I wish, in my 987 and 996 GT3 yes, in new cars you have to take the caliper off and it takes 3x as long to change then you also have centre locks to sort.You don't have to take the calipers off on a 991 GT3 to change the pads, but I suppose you probably would't need to change the pads if you mainly want to look at how your PCCB exhibit such a great lack of rust on your driveway.
Porsche911R said:
993rsr said:
What an OPC suggests should be replaced and what actually needs replacing even you would agree are two different things entirely!
As I said if you look on Rennlist guys with 991 GT models are getting much more durability with different pads and changing the rotors when they are properly worn not when the OPC suggests so.
Rennlist documents proper real world PCCB vs steel comparison with empirical data rather than your armchair understanding.
It's a circle of doom normally, fit some race pads, stay out longer crack disks and pucks. Or fit harder pads wear disks faster.As I said if you look on Rennlist guys with 991 GT models are getting much more durability with different pads and changing the rotors when they are properly worn not when the OPC suggests so.
Rennlist documents proper real world PCCB vs steel comparison with empirical data rather than your armchair understanding.
the point you missed is rather than £100 steel disks I think my 996 disks were £65 a side + vat, modern GT steels are bloody expensive.
I have seen people get 4 track days and some 20 so it depends on pads and the track and how far to 100% you want to get, A REASON I avoided the Donnington GP layout, it's a brake killer, where the National layout is easy on brakes.
I tend to slow down on the straights on track as who needs lap times on track days, some people are gun vmax mad for the lap time and thus will wear brakes, a BIG trend is fitting GT3 MC to stop the pedal getting long due to heat but not fixing the heat issue in the 1st place. these sorts of owners would be lucky to get 4 days from disks.
it's all about heat but I guess you would know this ;-)
Fitting race pads to track cars with disks made of cheese = short life.
My GT is at 40k miles and I'd guess maybe 50+ track days in it's life, I've replaced the front PCCB ones, the rears will need doing at some point and these are the original SGL variant. The GT does have particularly good cooling ducting, but even so these 'cheese' discs have lasted really well, running Endless pads.
I think you interpret track pads as hard and wearing, depends on the selection and Endless are both highly durable, have superb pedal modulation and feel, and are kind to the rotors.
And as Hunter says, 24 hour racers run the disks and pads for the duration.
Of course that's the risk of stating 'facts' without any real experience ;-)
Pucks, that was on Episodes wasn't it?
Edited by 993rsr on Tuesday 11th June 16:43
Edited by 993rsr on Tuesday 11th June 16:44
nudgerwilliams said:
993rsr said:
nudgerwilliams said:
My GT4 has just had new front steel discs at 9.5k miles, 7 or 8 track days, and about 15 laps of the Ring. £2.2k. I steered clear of ceramics when I specced the car because of worries about replacement costs given I was intending to use it on track, but the steels aren't working out to be cheap.
I suspect aftermarket steels are the most cost-effective option, but then that gives all the warranty issues.
David
Was that at an OPC and what was the reason for changing ie length of cracks propagating from the holes?I suspect aftermarket steels are the most cost-effective option, but then that gives all the warranty issues.
David
Cheers
I guess the option was to put some new ones on, swap out to the perfectly good ones they told you were shot, then pop the new ones on come warranty renewal. Time to change is when the crack from the holes has propagated to the edge of the disc or when they join up.
Edited by 993rsr on Tuesday 11th June 16:55
993rsr said:
Trust me your PCCB would have no problems at Donington GP track, it's all in your mind.
I know they would be fine. I said the layouts heavy on brakes, that = heat and that's not great eps when you get 4 or 5 red flags at every event these days.I just don't like the layout, and I don't know any one who does in fact.
Porsche911R said:
A REASON I avoided the Donnington GP layout, it's a brake killer, where the National layout is easy on brakes.
This point puzzles me really, does it genuinely concern you that your PCCB's would not stand up to this?Shelling out all that money just to have a driveway tug-fest at the lack of brake dust and rust seems and awful waste to me.
993rsr said:
nudgerwilliams said:
993rsr said:
nudgerwilliams said:
My GT4 has just had new front steel discs at 9.5k miles, 7 or 8 track days, and about 15 laps of the Ring. £2.2k. I steered clear of ceramics when I specced the car because of worries about replacement costs given I was intending to use it on track, but the steels aren't working out to be cheap.
I suspect aftermarket steels are the most cost-effective option, but then that gives all the warranty issues.
David
Was that at an OPC and what was the reason for changing ie length of cracks propagating from the holes?I suspect aftermarket steels are the most cost-effective option, but then that gives all the warranty issues.
David
Cheers
I guess the option was to put some new ones on, swap out to the perfectly good ones they told you were shot, then pop the new ones on come warranty renewal. Time to change is when the crack from the holes has propagated to the edge of the disc or when they join up.
Edited by 993rsr on Tuesday 11th June 16:55
nudgerwilliams said:
993rsr said:
nudgerwilliams said:
993rsr said:
nudgerwilliams said:
My GT4 has just had new front steel discs at 9.5k miles, 7 or 8 track days, and about 15 laps of the Ring. £2.2k. I steered clear of ceramics when I specced the car because of worries about replacement costs given I was intending to use it on track, but the steels aren't working out to be cheap.
I suspect aftermarket steels are the most cost-effective option, but then that gives all the warranty issues.
David
Was that at an OPC and what was the reason for changing ie length of cracks propagating from the holes?I suspect aftermarket steels are the most cost-effective option, but then that gives all the warranty issues.
David
Cheers
I guess the option was to put some new ones on, swap out to the perfectly good ones they told you were shot, then pop the new ones on come warranty renewal. Time to change is when the crack from the holes has propagated to the edge of the disc or when they join up.
Edited by 993rsr on Tuesday 11th June 16:55
If race teams threw out discs according to OPC specs there would be a queue at the skip behind the workshop to get the perfectly usable ones out:-)
993rsr said:
This point puzzles me really, does it genuinely concern you that your PCCB's would not stand up to this?
Shelling out all that money just to have a driveway tug-fest at the lack of brake dust and rust seems and awful waste to me.
I keep saying they would be ok !Shelling out all that money just to have a driveway tug-fest at the lack of brake dust and rust seems and awful waste to me.
I don't do track days, I have said this what 30 times in the past 2 days :-) not sure why that upsets you so much, but there you go.
Been there done it, now find it dull and VERY expensive, money better spent doing things I like.
Porsche911R said:
993rsr said:
This point puzzles me really, does it genuinely concern you that your PCCB's would not stand up to this?
Shelling out all that money just to have a driveway tug-fest at the lack of brake dust and rust seems and awful waste to me.
I keep saying they would be ok !Shelling out all that money just to have a driveway tug-fest at the lack of brake dust and rust seems and awful waste to me.
I don't do track days, I have said this what 30 times in the past 2 days :-) not sure why that upsets you so much, but there you go.
Been there done it, now find it dull and VERY expensive, money better spent doing things I like.
Now you say they would be fine (which of course was the case) and yet despite this you didn't want to attend which is a shame.
I don't know why you think I'm upset, I'm just trying to understanding your logic with the statements you make.
Mad Scientist said:
Interesting. That price is ex-VAT, though, so £1800 for the parts makes £2.2k fitted at an OPC not too much of a rip-off. I feel more violated by what they charge for an oil change.Mad Scientist said:
not really, but it backs up my "new breed" of steels not being cheap, when you can buy a Cayman R disk for £65+vat.OPC change everything also all new bolts pads springs etc etc, these come to £200 retail on top on the disks and pads.
Mad Scientist said:
That’s the full complement of everything that Porsche change. Still expensive, and whilst this is 45 mins in the garage for some, I realise that it’s out of scope for others.
Suppose what they charge for fitting isn’t tooooo bad, but they must be putting at least 2 hours labour on, which is a joke.
If there was a better priced aftermarket solution it would be tempting, but bell and rotor conversions are “market priced”.
I used to run similar sized AP rotors on a rally car with custom hard anodised alloy bells. Total cost under a grand. Replacement rotors £600.
but it would be min 2 hours these days to do that job.Suppose what they charge for fitting isn’t tooooo bad, but they must be putting at least 2 hours labour on, which is a joke.
If there was a better priced aftermarket solution it would be tempting, but bell and rotor conversions are “market priced”.
I used to run similar sized AP rotors on a rally car with custom hard anodised alloy bells. Total cost under a grand. Replacement rotors £600.
you can buy AP, Brembo, Gyro etc rotors with custom hard anodised alloy bells but in these big sizes it's £4k a set.
the issue is TRACKED cars wear out rear brakes at a faster rate now due to PTV so track costs have gone up due to this major rear brake wear also happing.
tracking a road car esp a GT car it's min £2k a day and that's if you keep miles to 150 odd. do more miles and of course more costs.
these R spec qually tyres have 300 miles in them so it seems for lap time chasers £2k a set.
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