718 GTS Road Tests
Discussion
rockin said:
You didn't rate the 981 either. Plus ca change.
Nobody bought the Subaru with its supposedly better sounding engine and nobody bought the Alfa 4C either. No sign of a boom in Lotus V6 sales despite this outbreak of 4-pox!
718 is a brilliant car for £50k and I will be staggered if many customers decide to swerve away.
I did, there is no way I wanted a 718 despite 5 to choose from in the showroom with discounts to be had. I just could not live with the sound. Porsche lost a new sale right here. A later 3 day high spec loaner simply confirmed I had made the right decision. I think you underestimate the number of potential buyers the reviews and subsequent test drives have put off buying a 718. They have not sold well with both new to porsche and those who may have been looking to trade in a 981 not bothering. Will be interesting to see how 718 and 981 prices compare in a few years but I can see a good chance 981 GTS fetching more than 718 like for like in spec etc.....Nobody bought the Subaru with its supposedly better sounding engine and nobody bought the Alfa 4C either. No sign of a boom in Lotus V6 sales despite this outbreak of 4-pox!
718 is a brilliant car for £50k and I will be staggered if many customers decide to swerve away.
rockin said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
You didn't rate the 981 either. Plus ca change.Nobody bought the Subaru with its supposedly better sounding engine and nobody bought the Alfa 4C either. No sign of a boom in Lotus V6 sales despite this outbreak of 4-pox!
718 is a brilliant car for £50k and I will be staggered if many customers decide to swerve away.
Yes the 718 is a brilliant car (engine excepted). It’s still the best non-hardcore sports car at anything like the money, no argument from me there. But - and it’s a big but - the engine character and sound is the heart and soul of a sports car. Would it matter if that flat four was fitted to a Golf or a Focus? No. But to throw one of the best engines ever fitted to an “affordable” sports car in a skip and replace it with this flat four lump is too bitter a pill for many to swallow. I can’t imagine anyone with 981 GTS trading to the latest one. Even BMW have kept their six cylinder engines in their sports car range.
I do hope with the next generation Boxster / Cayman Porsche re engineer it so the base models keep the flat four but top of the range versions such as GTS revert to a slightly derated turbo six from the 911, in the same way the 981 GTS had derated base 911 engines.
Edited by dreamcar on Thursday 7th December 10:23
On the day the 718 GTS was released I placed a deposit on one to get a build slot. I managed to sell my 981 s privately & then went to the OPC to spec the car up. Stupidly I had never tested any of the 718 models before making my decision. After specking up the car I then drove a Boxster 718S PDK. What a disappointment, I can't fault how it drives but no way can I spend £70K plus on something what sounds awful & has in my opinion no soul.
I regret now not buying a new 981 GTS.
Although my budget suited the Cayman GTS better I have now sold the dog & ordered a 911GTS instead, but for looks I think the Cayman wins every time.
Retirement date extended by 2 years all because of sound!
I regret now not buying a new 981 GTS.
Although my budget suited the Cayman GTS better I have now sold the dog & ordered a 911GTS instead, but for looks I think the Cayman wins every time.
Retirement date extended by 2 years all because of sound!
I will try the Alpine I think when I replace my 981. Sounds like the better car:
http://www.evo.co.uk/alpine/a110
http://www.evo.co.uk/alpine/a110
NEIL3734 said:
On the day the 718 GTS was released I placed a deposit on one to get a build slot. I managed to sell my 981 s privately & then went to the OPC to spec the car up. Stupidly I had never tested any of the 718 models before making my decision. After specking up the car I then drove a Boxster 718S PDK. What a disappointment, I can't fault how it drives but no way can I spend £70K plus on something what sounds awful & has in my opinion no soul.
I regret now not buying a new 981 GTS.
Although my budget suited the Cayman GTS better I have now sold the dog & ordered a 911GTS instead, but for looks I think the Cayman wins every time.
Retirement date extended by 2 years all because of sound!
Oh dear... why oh why didn’t you test drive the 718 first. Once I decide it’s time to move my car on I get seat time in all the contenders. I like to be sure what I think I want is what I want.I regret now not buying a new 981 GTS.
Although my budget suited the Cayman GTS better I have now sold the dog & ordered a 911GTS instead, but for looks I think the Cayman wins every time.
Retirement date extended by 2 years all because of sound!
Krobar said:
I will try the Alpine I think when I replace my 981. Sounds like the better car:
http://www.evo.co.uk/alpine/a110
I had a good look at the Alpine at the Battersea Park Motorshow. They’ve done a really good job, nothing cheap about it at all. I don’t see me replacing my 981 CS but if I did.....http://www.evo.co.uk/alpine/a110
Porsche718S said:
It would be an act of extreme petulance for a 981 owner to buy one of these over a 718.
Despite the price point suggesting otherwise, it’s not directly comparable and is afflicted with the same ‘challenges’, with a few more all of its own...
Each to their own I suppose but I wouldn't think most grown men would blow 50k out of petulance - unless you really are made of money. Despite the price point suggesting otherwise, it’s not directly comparable and is afflicted with the same ‘challenges’, with a few more all of its own...
If you did own a 981 (I had a CGTS by the way) and decided to trade it in i reckon you would more likely (and begrudgingly) pay overs for a GT4 if you really are attached to the Porsche experience.
Prestonese said:
Each to their own I suppose but I wouldn't think most grown men would blow 50k out of petulance - unless you really are made of money.
If you did own a 981 (I had a CGTS by the way) and decided to trade it in i reckon you would more likely (and begrudgingly) pay overs for a GT4 if you really are attached to the Porsche experience.
Agree; that's the only place I'd go if I wanted to stay with Porsche mid-engined. I keep wondering about a GT4... It's a great car no question but is it really worth it - to me - spend 30+ grand to change? If there were no GT4 I'd be thoroughly content with my CGTS.If you did own a 981 (I had a CGTS by the way) and decided to trade it in i reckon you would more likely (and begrudgingly) pay overs for a GT4 if you really are attached to the Porsche experience.
Prestonese said:
Each to their own I suppose but I wouldn't think most grown men would blow 50k out of petulance - unless you really are made of money.
If you did own a 981 (I had a CGTS by the way) and decided to trade it in i reckon you would more likely (and begrudgingly) pay overs for a GT4 if you really are attached to the Porsche experience.
You’ve missed the point.If you did own a 981 (I had a CGTS by the way) and decided to trade it in i reckon you would more likely (and begrudgingly) pay overs for a GT4 if you really are attached to the Porsche experience.
Porsche718S said:
It would be an act of extreme petulance for a 981 owner to buy one of these over a 718.
Despite the price point suggesting otherwise, it’s not directly comparable and is afflicted with the same ‘challenges’, with a few more all of its own...
What a ridiculous thing to say... extreme petulance! I spend my money on what I want to spend it on. I don’t like the 718, it is of no interest to me at all. It’s clear a great car but for me it’s lost it’s soul... and yes I’ve driven it. Twice. Had one for a day, the other for 2 day. I don’t need more power, more speed etc.. those who like it, I’m genuinely happy for them. I wouldn’t question why they like it, should’ve bought a 981 etc. As I said, the 981 one stays. If I were to feel like a change and the Alpine did it for me then it would be on my drive... I’d be totally comfortable with the ‘lesser’ badge Despite the price point suggesting otherwise, it’s not directly comparable and is afflicted with the same ‘challenges’, with a few more all of its own...
HighwayStar said:
Porsche718S said:
It would be an act of extreme petulance for a 981 owner to buy one of these over a 718.
Despite the price point suggesting otherwise, it’s not directly comparable and is afflicted with the same ‘challenges’, with a few more all of its own...
What a ridiculous thing to say... extreme petulance! I spend my money on what I want to spend it on. I don’t like the 718, it is of no interest to me at all. It’s clear a great car but for me it’s lost it’s soul... and yes I’ve driven it. Twice. Had one for a day, the other for 2 day. I don’t need more power, more speed etc.. those who like it, I’m genuinely happy for them. I wouldn’t question why they like it, should’ve bought a 981 etc. As I said, the 981 one stays. If I were to feel like a change and the Alpine did it for me then it would be on my drive... I’d be totally comfortable with the ‘lesser’ badge Despite the price point suggesting otherwise, it’s not directly comparable and is afflicted with the same ‘challenges’, with a few more all of its own...
dreamcar said:
Agree 100%. I’ve no plans to sell our BGTS, I have no idea what I would replace it with. In the Porsche range, if I could justify the expense I nice low mileage 991/2 Carrera S or a 991/1 GTS. I don’t do track days so a GT4 would probably be wasted on me. Outside of that I don’t know what I would replace it with, it certainly wouldn’t be any 718 sadly.
I've had a similar issue. The 718 I had for the day wasn't for me and I was informally offered a place for a 718 Spyder but its going to be 70K+ and a bit too rich for my blood. I really want to try the Alpine; if it is a better chassis then the smaller size for rural roads could make it top of my list if it is a still a reasonable compromise for daily use (This is all guesswork though until I can get a test drive). I keep hoping TVR will make something a bit smaller or cheaper or maybe I will finally build a garage and go with a Caterham as a second car. I don't think the Alpine brand is lacking; its not soiled by those horrible SUV things.
dreamcar said:
HighwayStar said:
Porsche718S said:
It would be an act of extreme petulance for a 981 owner to buy one of these over a 718.
Despite the price point suggesting otherwise, it’s not directly comparable and is afflicted with the same ‘challenges’, with a few more all of its own...
What a ridiculous thing to say... extreme petulance! I spend my money on what I want to spend it on. I don’t like the 718, it is of no interest to me at all. It’s clear a great car but for me it’s lost it’s soul... and yes I’ve driven it. Twice. Had one for a day, the other for 2 day. I don’t need more power, more speed etc.. those who like it, I’m genuinely happy for them. I wouldn’t question why they like it, should’ve bought a 981 etc. As I said, the 981 one stays. If I were to feel like a change and the Alpine did it for me then it would be on my drive... I’d be totally comfortable with the ‘lesser’ badge Despite the price point suggesting otherwise, it’s not directly comparable and is afflicted with the same ‘challenges’, with a few more all of its own...
Its a fickle world.
Porsche718S said:
dreamcar said:
HighwayStar said:
Porsche718S said:
It would be an act of extreme petulance for a 981 owner to buy one of these over a 718.
Despite the price point suggesting otherwise, it’s not directly comparable and is afflicted with the same ‘challenges’, with a few more all of its own...
What a ridiculous thing to say... extreme petulance! I spend my money on what I want to spend it on. I don’t like the 718, it is of no interest to me at all. It’s clear a great car but for me it’s lost it’s soul... and yes I’ve driven it. Twice. Had one for a day, the other for 2 day. I don’t need more power, more speed etc.. those who like it, I’m genuinely happy for them. I wouldn’t question why they like it, should’ve bought a 981 etc. As I said, the 981 one stays. If I were to feel like a change and the Alpine did it for me then it would be on my drive... I’d be totally comfortable with the ‘lesser’ badge Despite the price point suggesting otherwise, it’s not directly comparable and is afflicted with the same ‘challenges’, with a few more all of its own...
Its a fickle world.
If it was NASP F6, yes... I would be planning my arse in to one. It’s why I bought the 981, it’s why I moved away from my Audi TTS... yes I know but it served it’s purpose. The point is. I know what I like. And no not everyone would want the 718 with a NASP F6. The 981 wasn’t universally loved either but I still bought it because I really don’t give a f
k what anyone else says or thinks about it and.... that should be your approach. You have a 718 and you love it. That I don’t is not a personal attack on you or anyone else. Just a preference. I love most of what the 718 is, the way it looks and the rear lights. It’s a lovely looking thing but not for me. PS I misread your fickle thing... that just how it is. On paper, both mid engined turbo 4’s but it’s his those ingredients are put together other wise everyone would’ve bought an MR2 and called it a day.
You have a car that I don’t want but you love it. Enjoy it. It’s that simple.
Porsche718S said:
If the 718 had a NASP F6, I strongly suspect everyone would want one. But because it has a 4-cylinder turbo, no-one (apparently) wants one and another brand with...a 4-cylinder turbo...is now a credible alternative when getting out of a 981?
Its a fickle world.
Correct. Even if it had a turbo flat six, as it sounds and drives great in the 991/2. And I would certainly be one as there are a number of improvements over the 981. If Porsche had brought out a 718 GTS with the same flat six engine, even without a power increase, by now I would have probably ordered one. But for me, and I suspect many others the undoubted improvements are completely ruined by the... let’s be kind.... controversial - engine. I have my solution though, keeping my 981 BGTS, knowing that it cannot be replaced with anything that appeals.Its a fickle world.
Edited by dreamcar on Saturday 9th December 11:36
Porsche718S said:
You’ve missed the point.
Maybe I have but I don't see why you couldn't buy into an Alpine coming from a 981? It seems like many owners of 981s don't want to get into a 718 as it doesn't offer the things which matter to them even though it's packaged by the same manufacturer. The things which the 718 does offer which is different to the 981 don't seem to be priorities for 981 owners. A key difference in the Alpine is weight and chassis development which is a big step from what Porsche currently offers. I'm of the view that if you swap cars it doesn't seem logical to go for something which gives the same or similar experience. Why waste money on a same experience. At least with the Alpine it's something different to a 981. 4 cylinders aside the key differences like weight seems to be something positive. However, many 981 owners don't seem to regard the differences of the 718 in the same light. That's why I don't think it's petulant if they did swap to an Alpine.
That's the story I'm sticking to anyway!
HighwayStar said:
It’s not fickle though... if I loved it but knocked it back because didn’t like the PORSCHE strapped across the back between the lights... that would be fickle.
If it was NASP F6, yes... I would be planning my arse in to one. It’s why I bought the 981, it’s why I moved away from my Audi TTS... yes I know but it served it’s purpose. The point is. I know what I like. And no not everyone would want the 718 with a NASP F6. The 981 wasn’t universally loved either but I still bought it because I really don’t give a fk what anyone else says or thinks about it and.... that should be your approach. You have a 718 and you love it. That I don’t is not a personal attack on you or anyone else. Just a preference. I love most of what the 718 is, the way it looks and the rear lights. It’s a lovely looking thing but not for me.
PS I misread your fickle thing... that just how it is. On paper, both mid engined turbo 4’s but it’s his those ingredients are put together other wise everyone would’ve bought an MR2 and called it a day.
You have a car that I don’t want but you love it. Enjoy it. It’s that simple.
Without wishing this to sound rude (because that's honestly not my intent), I don't care if you or anyone else likes the 718 or not, or that you don't want one. I'm just observing the principal reasons for the apparent dislike not being similar differentiators on the Alpine? Apparently turbo lag and (in this case a familiar) 4-cylinder noise are now 'character' and can be excused on the basis of history, novelty and because the rest of the car is apparently good!? If it was NASP F6, yes... I would be planning my arse in to one. It’s why I bought the 981, it’s why I moved away from my Audi TTS... yes I know but it served it’s purpose. The point is. I know what I like. And no not everyone would want the 718 with a NASP F6. The 981 wasn’t universally loved either but I still bought it because I really don’t give a f
k what anyone else says or thinks about it and.... that should be your approach. You have a 718 and you love it. That I don’t is not a personal attack on you or anyone else. Just a preference. I love most of what the 718 is, the way it looks and the rear lights. It’s a lovely looking thing but not for me. PS I misread your fickle thing... that just how it is. On paper, both mid engined turbo 4’s but it’s his those ingredients are put together other wise everyone would’ve bought an MR2 and called it a day.
You have a car that I don’t want but you love it. Enjoy it. It’s that simple.
This forum seems to (want to?) interpret 718 owners offering a different view of 718 as them trying to justify why they prefer something that is universally not liked or is not very good. That's a shame and is the reason I'm not around here that much (or many other very happy 718 owners for that matter). I'm not here to justify my 718 purchase, I'm here for a reasoned discussion amongst fellow minded car enthusiasts - the problem is no one can (or is prepared to?) do that with the 718 because they simply can't get past the fact it has a F4 and sounds different. That's OK, I don't want or need to convince people who have decided they don't like it to like it, but I will discuss statements pertaining to stated qualities of the drivetrain that are not subjective and perhaps incorrect, uninformed or that I might not agree with.
FWIW, I do enjoy my 718, its the best car I have owned. But I still question why the principal reasons for people not liking the 718 are apparently not reasons to critique the new Alpine in a similar vein? Its really not a question of whether people like the 718 or not...
Edited by Porsche718S on Saturday 9th December 12:59
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