Boxster 981 outside of the OPC bubble

[bcr5784]

Tim718 said:

It would affect resale to buyers like myself, as I simply wouldn’t buy it. As I say it’s just personal preference, but I know when I’ve sold cars and had them valued Ive been asked if the FSH is main dealer or not. By both buyers and trade - so it’s a factor.

But do you really think an OPC would do the noddy processes involved in a standard service better than an Indy? I would find that incomprehensible. In fact there is an argument that an Indy who relies on his reputation has more to lose from poor service than an OPC who has "captive" customers.

[Tim718]

bcr5784 said:

But do you really think an OPC would do the noddy processes involved in a standard service better than an Indy? I would find that incomprehensible. In fact there is an argument that an Indy who relies on his reputation has more to lose from poor service than an OPC who has "captive" customers.

Well in the past when buying used. I’d trust a service book full of main dealer stamps, than I would stamped with random garages I’ve never heard of yeah.

Whether or not the mechanics at a main dealer are more qualified than a non-dealer garage doesn’t really matter to me - I’d imagine you get good and bad at both. For me it’s more the trust I have in the main dealer over that of an unknown garage, and also the perception I get (right or wrong) of the previous owners ‘no expense spared’ upkeep of the car and life the car has had.

I understand that’s just perception, but I know how perception can have a fairly decent role/impact on both the price and appetite of the potential buyer having bought and sold cars.

[bcr5784]

Tim718 said:

Well in the past when buying used. I’d trust a service book full of main dealer stamps, than I would stamped with random garages I’ve never heard of yeah.

Whether or not the mechanics at a main dealer are more qualified than a non-dealer garage doesn’t really matter to me - I’d imagine you get good and bad at both. For me it’s more the trust I have in the main dealer over that of an unknown garage, and also the perception I get (right or wrong) of the previous owners ‘no expense spared’ upkeep of the car and life the car has had.

I understand that’s just perception, but I know how perception can have a fairly decent role/impact on both the price and appetite of the potential buyer having bought and sold cars.

Indies are not random garages - they are Porsche specialists more often than not trained by Porsche. I've sold a lot of cars in the past (including the odd Porsche) and NOT ONE person (including dealers!) has ever asked to see the service book prior to commiting to purchase.

Edited by bcr5784 on Saturday 10th February 16:35

[Tim718]

bcr5784 said:

Indies are not random garages - they are Porsche specialists more often than not trained by Porsche. I've sold a lot of cars in the past (including the odd Porsche) and NOT ONE person (including dealers!) has ever asked to see the service book prior to commiting to purchase.

I’ve never bought/sold a Porsche, so maybe it’s different to other marques? But i guarantee that a new buyer to the brand (unless local and already aware of your indy) will trust a main dealer over a random ‘local’ specialist they’ve never heard of.

As I said before, it’s less about the credibility of the mechanic and more about perception of the history of the car/previous owner. I’m not saying Porsche owners are like this, but in my experience more often than not the reason someone goes Independant garage instead of main dealer is price. I would prefer a car that’s had no expense spared history, than one where the owner cut costs.

I check (and people check) the full paperwork before buying the car, almost every time in fact. This is mainly when buying/selling privately, I’ve not sold many cars to trade.

Edited by Tim718 on Saturday 10th February 16:52

[Trevor555]

bcr5784 said:

Indies are not random garages - they are Porsche specialists more often than not trained by Porsche. I've sold a lot of cars in the past (including the odd Porsche) and NOT ONE person (including dealers!) has ever asked to see the service book prior to commiting to purchase.

Edited by bcr5784 on Saturday 10th February 16:35

A dealer buying a Porsche without looking at the service book?

Really?

Not in my 30 years of experience as a dealer/professional buyer.

[bcr5784]

Tim718 said:

I’ve never bought/sold a Porsche, so maybe it’s different to other marques? But i guarantee that a new buyer to the brand (unless local and already aware of your indy) will trust a main dealer over a random ‘local’ specialist they’ve never heard of.

Edited by Tim718 on Saturday 10th February 16:47

I wouldn't take bets on that - my current Porsche was my first Porsche and I wouldn't/didn't.

[Tim718]

bcr5784 said:

I wouldn't take bets on that - my current Porsche was my first Porsche and I wouldn't/didn't.

So if there were 2 identical cars, both the same price. Car A had 5 dealer service stamps, and Car B had 5 different independant garage stamps - you’re saying you’d take the Car B over the full main dealer serviced one?

Edited by Tim718 on Saturday 10th February 18:33

[OhThatHurtAbit]

From my own experience, people new to buying a Porsche are looking for the comfort of a Porsche main dealer stamp in the service book. I find it difficult to sell a Boxster (such as 2012-14) without a 'proper history' so will always pay more for one with the right stamps, so a saving on a service with a specialist unfortunately isn't (usually) worth it. I get my cars that need a service done at my local OPC and means they can get a warranty eventually

[bcr5784]

Tim718 said:

So if there were 2 identical cars, both the same price. Car A had 5 dealer service stamps, and Car B had 5 different independant garage stamps - you’re saying you’d take the Car B over the full main dealer serviced one?

Edited by Tim718 on Saturday 10th February 18:33

I'm saying it would have/has no effect WHATSOEVER in my decision.Routine servicing (these days, as opposed to years ago, when there were valve clearances/ignition settings to adjust, nipples to grease and lots more) is so noddy that any half decent garage can do it to a completely satisfactory standard.

[bcr5784]

OhThatHurtAbit said:

From my own experience, people new to buying a Porsche are looking for the comfort of a Porsche main dealer stamp in the service book. I find it difficult to sell a Boxster (such as 2012-14) without a 'proper history' so will always pay more for one with the right stamps, so a saving on a service with a specialist unfortunately isn't (usually) worth it. I get my cars that need a service done at my local OPC and means they can get a warranty eventually

Unfortunately, having your car serviced by an OPC has no effect on getting a warranty. If you want a warranty you will have to get an 111 point check whether it's serviced by an OPC or not. That will cost you (at my OPC) £206 regardless of any previous history. I queried that this morning as my car is due a 4 year service.

[OhThatHurtAbit]

bcr5784 said:

OhThatHurtAbit said:

From my own experience, people new to buying a Porsche are looking for the comfort of a Porsche main dealer stamp in the service book. I find it difficult to sell a Boxster (such as 2012-14) without a 'proper history' so will always pay more for one with the right stamps, so a saving on a service with a specialist unfortunately isn't (usually) worth it. I get my cars that need a service done at my local OPC and means they can get a warranty eventually

Unfortunately, having your car serviced by an OPC has no effect on getting a warranty. If you want a warranty you will have to get an 111 point check whether it's serviced by an OPC or not. That will cost you (at my OPC) £206 regardless of any previous history. I queried that this morning as my car is due a 4 year service.

Agreed, but to get it though the dreaded 111 check and the potential to get a warranty on it can add a wee figure to the value and desirability

[bcr5784]

OhThatHurtAbit said:

Agreed, but to get it though the dreaded 111 check and the potential to get a warranty on it can add a wee figure to the value and desirability

Don't disagree - but the ability to pass the 111 check and its cost is not influenced by any previous history - whether OPC or not. Disappointing (yes I was!) but that is the position.

[Porsche911R]

bcr5784 said:

I'm saying it would have/has no effect WHATSOEVER in my decision.Routine servicing (these days, as opposed to years ago, when there were valve clearances/ignition settings to adjust, nipples to grease and lots more) is so noddy that any half decent garage can do it to a completely satisfactory standard.

It’s not that noddy as they need the expensive computers these days and piwis machines.

Most sellers cannot even give you an over Rev report.

So you are not having a 4 years OPC service on your own car then.

[MDL111]

Am with 911R and all the others who are saying OPC better than not OPC for relatively new cars, esp of mass market cars that you will lilkely sell to a non-enthusiast - I would also be more comfortable with OPC history than with no-name garage history. I have had my 355 serviced at indies, but newer cars I wanted to buy from a main dealer, with main dealer service history and continue to get them serviced at the main dealer - and I know that they are by no means always the best at what they do, it is just the easy solution and protects resale value to a degree (and I don’t have statistics for that, but I think it is an obvious one given how many people quote full main dealer service history in their ads when selling cars anything ranging from bmws to Audi’s to Porsche’s and Ferraris))

[bcr5784]

Porsche911R said:

It’s not that noddy as they need the expensive computers these days and piwis machines.

Most sellers cannot even give you an over Rev report.

So you are not having a 4 years OPC service on your own car then.

Get real! All they need is any PC, some cheap( or free) software and an OBD reader (about £5 on ebay). It's that sort of ignorance that drives me wild. I was going to have my 4 year service done by an OPC because I thought it would get a free 111 point check. Looks like it would be a waste of money.

[Porsche911R]

bcr5784 said:

Get real! All they need is any PC, some cheap( or free) software and an OBD reader (about £5 on ebay). It's that sort of ignorance that drives me wild. I was going to have my 4 year service done by an OPC because I thought it would get a free 111 point check. Looks like it would be a waste of money.

I think your ignorance has shown you up this time sorry to say.

I bet you have an OPC service, come back and tell us if you choose other wise and if people ask you about the cars history come sale time, as for cheap leads, they cannot do much and if the garage I choose did not have the piwis tools I would not trust them to touch my car that’s for sure. It’s this ignorance which make you look a bit daft. Cheap obd readers offer jack st sorry to say, I have quite expensive leads as I own a few porkers and buy a few so I like to check faults misfires and over revs etc,

Even to change fluid you need to be able to trigger the abs etc none of the cheap crap can do this even.

[bcr5784]

MDL111 said:

Am with 911R and all the others who are saying OPC better than not OPC for relatively new cars,

"Better? " in what way.

More likely to appeal to half whit?

Given that most of the comments support the idea of Indies for older cars/non service issues, this makes no sense logically. A regular service requires no specialised knowledge. HOWEVER an older car may require repairs that DO require real skill and knowledge. So I can see an argument (even if I have my doubts) for having your work done on an OLDER car at an OPC - but punter prejudice apart - I can see no valid reason for having a newish car serviced that way. It is (as my father-in-law would have said) the logic of the madhouse, turning sense on its head.

[Porsche911R]

bcr5784 said:

"Better? " in what way.

More likely to appeal to half whit?

Given that most of the comments support the idea of Indies for older cars/non service issues, this makes no sense logically. A regular service requires no specialised knowledge. HOWEVER an older car may require repairs that DO require real skill and knowledge. So I can see an argument (even if I have my doubts) for having your work done on an OLDER car at an OPC - but punter prejudice apart - I can see no valid reason for having a newish car serviced that way. It is (as my father-in-law would have said) the logic of the madhouse, turning sense on its head.

you can repair an older car it's very easy, on a new car you cannot do much, every thing is locked, ECU driven etc I think a 991 has over 100 CPU's and a 1965 911 has none :-) I just help rebuild a 65 911 it's very basic, you cannot do that with new cars.

I have rebuild model cars and raced then at top level when I was 14 an older car is no harder than a top end model car it's just bigger !
I even had geo rigs and every thing 1/10th scale, why people think mending old cars is hard is daft, it's new cars which are impossible to look after at home !

Edited by Porsche911R on Saturday 10th February 20:57

[MDL111]

bcr5784 said:

MDL111 said:

Am with 911R and all the others who are saying OPC better than not OPC for relatively new cars,

"Better? " in what way.

More likely to appeal to half whit?

Given that most of the comments support the idea of Indies for older cars/non service issues, this makes no sense logically. A regular service requires no specialised knowledge. HOWEVER an older car may require repairs that DO require real skill and knowledge. So I can see an argument (even if I have my doubts) for having your work done on an OLDER car at an OPC - but punter prejudice apart - I can see no valid reason for having a newish car serviced that way. It is (as my father-in-law would have said) the logic of the madhouse, turning sense on its head.

Better for salability and value protection as you have to sell to the general public or as you put it „punter prejudice“. And even people who are interested in cars will likely take some comfort from it - you are welcome to show us some statistics that a non-OPC/Main Dealer service history on a modern high performance car is either value neutral or even beneficial to the value.

And the reason you have older cars serviced at indies can be among others as follows - working on some cars is very time intensive, so paying half the hourly rate makes a huge difference, sometimes mechanics at main dealers do not have the specialist knowledge anymore as they did not train on the older cars and some indies specialise in certain models

I think you are just being contrarian for the sake of it

[bcr5784]

MDL111 said:

I think you are just being contrarian for the sake of it

Just applying common sense and an understanding of the skills involved. If saying paying £600-£1000 for a low skill job which takes less than half a day is contrarian I'm guilty.

If there were more contrarians then Porsche servicing would come down much closer to the cost to the levels of "ordinary" cars - because they are no more complicated and intrinsically no more expensive. Contrarians have already forced Porsche to bring down their servicing costs substantially,but there is still some way to go.