718 Sound and Constant Whinging !
Discussion
dreamcar said:
boitjie said:
Yawn - is anyone else getting bored with reading the same old s
t?
A thread is started “718 Sound and Constant Whinging” and then people post on aforementioned thread commenting on the 718 sound. What a surprise!! t?
Edited by dreamcar on Friday 9th March 16:22
"IS anyone else tiring of the constant whinging re the 718's engine note ?
Maybe it's just me but some reviews and comments seem to exaggerate this out of all proportion."
You are continuing to prove that time and time again. In the interests of balance it would be really great to hear from some people who actually like their 718s.
Ryder35 said:
Me: As I said had both and both are good in different ways. For daily use 718, weekend toy 918 IMHOI do think the press reviews are actually starting to shift their opinion, the latest Car and Driver review is case in point and is much more positive than the stance they took immediately after the car was released. Catchpole at least still appears to be stuck in the past as are some of the others on here (mentioning no names, CM
)Edited by bob2146 on Friday 9th March 16:57
Twinfan said:
I don't start a thread complaining that someone doesn't like an aspect of my car - because I couldn't care less what others think!
I originally started this thread as a prospective buyer looking at the 981 vs 718. From that point of view alone I could not believe there was so much written about what is, to me, a very minor aspect of a great car. My original point still stands, that imo all the commentary about the noise is massively overblown. Others all will disagree, and they don’t have to buy the car. But in seeing some of the snide comments appearing I think this issue is more a reaction to the general market trend to downsizing and turbo charging that dislike is misplaced into a dislike of the 718. “Don’t hate the player hate the game” as they say. I can also totally understand why some 718 owners may be a little sensitive, people are focusing their dislike of change onto one car rather than the general shift in the marketplace globally.That this thread has now run to 22 pages only continues to serve that my initial observation is correct. This is not a wilful misrepresentation of the issue being just about noise, or an attempt to impose my views on anyone. Yes, people will eventually accept that change, but that change will take time. I do think the press is a little further ahead in this than we are on the forums based on the current reviews. On the other hand I can’t ever see cmoose buying a turbo !
Edit: now 23 pages ..
Edited by bob2146 on Friday 9th March 19:37
Twinfan said:
the overwhelming opinion is clearly that Porsche have ruined the 981 by changing it into the 718 and it's all down to the change of engine.
Overwhelming opinion ? On here? - I think opinion is definitely split, but is certainly not overwhelming. In the marketplace sales are up 6% I think based on their last press release so not overwhelming there either. Perhaps you could clarify ?Edited by bob2146 on Friday 9th March 20:41
Twinfan said:
Fair point regarding the sales, but all we've really seen are worldwide sales. In the US, according to Rennlist, they're dire. Not sure about the UK. Maybe the Asian market is propping up the figures? My comment is referring to what I know about, which is mostly the UK and US market.
And there’s the rub. Chinese consumption tax is engine size based: 5% for a 2.0 and 9% for a 2.5; versus 12% for a 2.7 and 25% for a 3.4. Go over 4 litres and it’s up to 40% ! The yanks are old school nasp fans like you and cmoose and fair play to that. But you guys are not the target market and that’s my point. What is really surprising to me is that neither is the whole of the NA market, so whatever PCGB or a journalist like a Henry Catchpole think is clearly irrelevant. The Chinese automotive market has been the largest in the world since 2009, and Porsche clearly know what they are doing. So either you guys get on board and embrace the change, or hang on to your future classics as long as you can. The age of large engined nasp is all but over. Twinfan said:
Why must we embrace the change? I'm pretty sure I can hate it for as long as I'm still breathing.
The China stats prove that the 718 was designed around their legislation, not building the best car Porsche can for us here in the UK, Europe or the US. That's another issue I have with the 718.
You don’t have to embrace anything, it was an either / or statement. The 718 may well be a car built for the Chinese market, but then your issue is with global economics rather than the 718 itself. Which is also my point, that hating the 718 is misplaced. The China stats prove that the 718 was designed around their legislation, not building the best car Porsche can for us here in the UK, Europe or the US. That's another issue I have with the 718.
Edited by Twinfan on Friday 9th March 22:28
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I’m not saying nasp is old school, I’m saying you guys are old school nasp fans. Apologies if I wasn’t clear.981 owners (at least the balanced ones) have always said the same thing. That they acknowledge the 718 is a better, newer car in all respects except for one thing and that is the engine change to F4T - the characteristics of which are not to their personal taste. And that is fine, they don’t have to buy the car, I don’t think Porsche really expects them to either. But, you have to take a step back and ask yourself why did Porsche change the engine in the first place? Now I’m not trying to project my views on anybody here, but it is only when you stop considering these things in isolation that you start to recognise the 718 for what it really is, and that is a brilliant and extremely shrewed global business move by Porsche.
On that basis, and that basis alone you cannot hate the 718, for not only have they made it quicker and better in several respects, but they have also aligned it to the changing global marketplace, namely China. 981 owners continue to whinge about the engine and I can understand that as the characteristics are not for them, but Porsche never intended it to be for them in the first place as their views, to Porsche at least, are irrelevant. Porsche are not making cars for them, any more (except perhaps the odd low volume halo car like a GT.)
The world is changing in my view you either get on board or you don’t. If you don’t then fair enough you can always embrace the ‘classics’ scene. But then know this, and that is you will always be stuck in the past.
I think you’re confusing ‘majority’. If you mean majority of 981 owners on here than perhaps so, but they were never the target market for the 718 anyway and that’s my point. If anything imo it is a minority of ‘purists’ that are stuck in the past and so desperately need to stop all the whinging move on. But that will clearly take time to happen if it ever does. Until then please do feel free to prove me wrong...
We all know the used market is tightly controlled by the opcs to maintain their, quite frankly, ridiculous dealer spreads on what is essentially a low volume car. Another reason to buy a new one imo. 718s sitting ‘unloved’ is really just a matter of perspective. Last time I set foot in my opc they had eight newly sold 718s under wraps awaiting collection by customer.
dreamcar said:
Amazing - some one innocently posts a review on the 718 GTS Boxster, gives a personal opinion, merely saying the sound isn’t for him as it isn’t for many, and he gets attacked by the 718 fraternity.
Dreamcar - you have to let it go man. Nobody with a 718 has posted AFAIK - I don't think WG or RR even own 718s.Edited by dreamcar on Saturday 10th March 15:41
Suffice to say I won't post anything further here as we already have one of these threads.
BE57JAM, you crack me upWG said:
That's where you are wrong. I have had the pleasure of owning a 718 BGTS for the last five weeks and I am VERY pleased with it - including the sound of the engine. My previous car was a 987 Spyder so I also know all about screaming flat sixes!
Ah, my apologies. Had based that AFAIK comment on your profile page. Anyway glad to hear you like it, with that history you clearly have an excellent perspective of both engines !Edited by WG on Saturday 10th March 21:05
B
jonttt said:
Porsche could have done better, must try harder......
You’re still looking at this based only on your own perspective. And that’s what I keep saying, when I say they’re not making cars for you anymore. You may not like it, but you were never meant to in the first place and they don’t care. I don’t think they would ever expect you to buy one anyway. Look at the 718 in it’s global context because it is a global product now and not only have Porsche done better, but they’ve knocked it right out of the fking park!But I guess you’ll never see that, because you clearly prefer just to live in your own garage of denial. Enjoy the classics scene.
jonttt said:
It all boils down to one simple fact in that I genuinely feel disappointed in what Porsche have produced in the 718. I fully accept the need to move to FI but the compromises made in both power delivery and sound I think Porsche are “getting away with” due to the target audience but that does not make them as good as they could have been.
At the end of the day when I see a 718 (including a very nice Mexica Blue cayman S at my car park) I just thing “what a shame”. I just find it sad and the comments on this thread have just confirmed that feeling to me ie most current owners are simply unaware of how good the 718 could have been.
To keep stating I’m not the target market is again factually incorrect. Any current porsche owner is part of the target market. To imply that you are that the target market is a different type of customer again is pretty sad to me. There was a time when the boxster was a genuine contender for the best sports car you could buy for less <£150k including 911’s but that is no longer the case. Yes Porsche may have changed tack with the target audience which yes means it no longer aimed at me as a buyer but that just makes me sad.
JTT, denial is a bad place to be. At the end of the day when I see a 718 (including a very nice Mexica Blue cayman S at my car park) I just thing “what a shame”. I just find it sad and the comments on this thread have just confirmed that feeling to me ie most current owners are simply unaware of how good the 718 could have been.
To keep stating I’m not the target market is again factually incorrect. Any current porsche owner is part of the target market. To imply that you are that the target market is a different type of customer again is pretty sad to me. There was a time when the boxster was a genuine contender for the best sports car you could buy for less <£150k including 911’s but that is no longer the case. Yes Porsche may have changed tack with the target audience which yes means it no longer aimed at me as a buyer but that just makes me sad.
This one's for you : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lzqRVuRqN0
Hope you feel better. And please for the love of god move on !
Edited by bob2146 on Sunday 11th March 12:45
jonttt said:
bob2146 said:
JTT, denial is a bad place to be.
This one's for you : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lzqRVuRqN0
Hope you feel better. And please for the love of god move on !
I have no idea what you are talking about other than you have obviously given up trying to argue your point, may I suggest thats because every argument put forward with regard to the 718 other than pure facts ie its newer/faster have been answered with logic and experience with regard to the 981 from several contributors in this thread. I have no problem agreeing to disagree and argument when I can see equal logic put forward by the other side. I have not seen any of that from you as per this example of a reply. To not agree with me is fine, however to imply I’m wrong without putting forward a convincing argument is not. I do accept its hard for you to do that...... as I’m right lolThis one's for you : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lzqRVuRqN0
Hope you feel better. And please for the love of god move on !
Edited by bob2146 on Sunday 11th March 12:45
I think there is enough argument from both sides over the last 28 pages to over all this fairly comprehensively, I'll let others reading the thread make their own conclusions over who is "right" or "wrong". With regard to your previous post all I saw was yet another wall of text from you telling everyone how sad you were about the current state of affairs and how you are still in denial about not being in the target market for the 718. Nasp vs Turbo we've seen discussed to death over the last 28 pages so am not sure what more there is to be gained. I won't claim the moral high ground but you have also been a little rude to some of the other posters on here who have taken the time to respond to you and refute your arguments.Not sure what more I can add to this other than repeating the same message as I have done throughout , that you really, really, seriously need to move on. But we all know you won't, so when you make your next post could I kindly suggest perhaps a bulletpoint format ?
All the best,
B
bob2146 said:
IS anyone else tiring of the constant whinging re the 718's engine note ?
Maybe it's just me but some reviews and comments seem to exaggerate this out of all proportion. A lot of these tests are not always balanced either. Chris Harris's comparison of a 718 at cruise vs an accelerating 981 is a good example. Not a fair comparison, at all. Having driven both I can say I definitely liked the F6, but at cruising speed it droned as well.
Carfection's latest review was the final straw, I mean come on ! Great road and all but please stop the whinging ! It is really misleading, I've read so much commentary on this it really detracts from what is a great car.
Just a quick recap, as I see some of the dinosaurs’ memories are clearly very short... DJ: loving the insecurity comment! V funny! I’m glad to finally see you have a sense of humour. Hope the motor’s ok btw, I’d recommend some newer technology but we all know where you stand on that... Maybe it's just me but some reviews and comments seem to exaggerate this out of all proportion. A lot of these tests are not always balanced either. Chris Harris's comparison of a 718 at cruise vs an accelerating 981 is a good example. Not a fair comparison, at all. Having driven both I can say I definitely liked the F6, but at cruising speed it droned as well.
Carfection's latest review was the final straw, I mean come on ! Great road and all but please stop the whinging ! It is really misleading, I've read so much commentary on this it really detracts from what is a great car.
HighwayStar said:
Put a better engine in the 718, make the F4 something special and I’d want one.
Genuinely interested, what engine do you want? I’m not looking for an “F6 nasp” answer, I’m saying look at it as a global seller, with all the emissions and other restrictions Porsche have had to contend with. Porsche have gone one way, and the markets are huge. But what would you do ?Edited by bob2146 on Tuesday 13th March 21:59
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