Oil change - now temp only goes to 94?
Discussion
OPC service manager phoned to say my car has been checked over and they "can find nothing wrong" with it. It's on its way back to me.
They say the oil temp is fluctuating but no differently to another 981 they compared it with. He's raising a ticket with PGB to see if they can assist. He didn't know for sure what the gauge should report... a constant fixed figure or a fluctuating one. A little worrying, when he did know the water temp stays at 90C but doesn't reflect true water temp.
I've phoned PGB CS and someone there is going to try and speed the ticket through the system.
Meanwhile, just to be on the safe side, I've emailed the service manager with:
"Further to our telephone conversation an hour or so ago, I'm finding it difficult to understand why over 27,000 miles of my driving the car the oil temperature had always stayed at 105C when warmed up and then suddenly, immediately after its service, it fluctuates between 81C and 101C? What also concerns me is that there seems to be no easy reference at your disposal to standard information as to what the oil temperature gauge should report?
You confirmed the water temperature gauge reads a fixed 90C when warm but that it's actually just acting like a "green light" whereas a wider range of water temperatures is occurring behind the scenes, but with oil temperature there doesn't seem to be such a set rule, hence your need to ask Porsche GB about this. Does it do the same as the water gauge and report a fixed temperature (as it has been doing), or should it fluctuate?
I phoned PGB after we spoke to find out if they knew the "rule" and spoke to Rob in customer service. He was very helpful but couldn't answer technical questions directly, instead saying he'd link into your ticket when it arrives and try to speed up an answer.
From my perspective, whether the oil temperature should fluctuate or whether it should remain constant is largely irrelevant to my concern at present. It was doing one thing, now it's doing the other. Logic dictates something must have changed during the service to move it from one action to the other. What that is you cannot yet find, but there must be something or it wouldn't have changed?
Are you entirely 100% happy that the car is fully serviceable and drivable and that no damage will be done by continuing to drive it when there has been a change in reporting an important parameter?
Or should I put it away in the garage until we have more information from PGB? What is your recommendation please?
Many thanks for your assistance."
I'm 100% sure something has been missed or altered by the servicing OPC.
They say the oil temp is fluctuating but no differently to another 981 they compared it with. He's raising a ticket with PGB to see if they can assist. He didn't know for sure what the gauge should report... a constant fixed figure or a fluctuating one. A little worrying, when he did know the water temp stays at 90C but doesn't reflect true water temp.
I've phoned PGB CS and someone there is going to try and speed the ticket through the system.
Meanwhile, just to be on the safe side, I've emailed the service manager with:
"Further to our telephone conversation an hour or so ago, I'm finding it difficult to understand why over 27,000 miles of my driving the car the oil temperature had always stayed at 105C when warmed up and then suddenly, immediately after its service, it fluctuates between 81C and 101C? What also concerns me is that there seems to be no easy reference at your disposal to standard information as to what the oil temperature gauge should report?
You confirmed the water temperature gauge reads a fixed 90C when warm but that it's actually just acting like a "green light" whereas a wider range of water temperatures is occurring behind the scenes, but with oil temperature there doesn't seem to be such a set rule, hence your need to ask Porsche GB about this. Does it do the same as the water gauge and report a fixed temperature (as it has been doing), or should it fluctuate?
I phoned PGB after we spoke to find out if they knew the "rule" and spoke to Rob in customer service. He was very helpful but couldn't answer technical questions directly, instead saying he'd link into your ticket when it arrives and try to speed up an answer.
From my perspective, whether the oil temperature should fluctuate or whether it should remain constant is largely irrelevant to my concern at present. It was doing one thing, now it's doing the other. Logic dictates something must have changed during the service to move it from one action to the other. What that is you cannot yet find, but there must be something or it wouldn't have changed?
Are you entirely 100% happy that the car is fully serviceable and drivable and that no damage will be done by continuing to drive it when there has been a change in reporting an important parameter?
Or should I put it away in the garage until we have more information from PGB? What is your recommendation please?
Many thanks for your assistance."
I'm 100% sure something has been missed or altered by the servicing OPC.
Porsche911R said:
if it take 30 miles to warm up looks like the thermostat issue, oil should be warm after 5 miles.
If the service manager knew what was supposed to be reflected by the oil temp gauge that would be a starting point perhaps?e.g. IF it's supposed to stay constant at 105C (as it always has done) he could think "Hmmm... must be a faulty thermostat/sensor/ECU/etc."
But the reference material he's using is "another 981 we tried." Who's to say that's running correctly?
Very woolly.
Some posts on this thread report static temp, others fluctuating. So there's no consensus here, nor on the wider web, nor at the OPC... who DOES know what is correct? I doubt very much it's supposed to be "either is fine" and even if it was, why has mine changed from one way to the other?
I kept an eye on my oil temp (if I remembered!) when I was out in my 981 GTS on Sunday. It was a long motorway run, steady speeds, and I used Sport mode for the whole of the two journeys there and back.
Once warm, my oil fluctuated between 96 and 98 degrees. I don't recall any large changes or much variation at all.
It certainly sounds like the thermostat is playing up on your car.
Once warm, my oil fluctuated between 96 and 98 degrees. I don't recall any large changes or much variation at all.
It certainly sounds like the thermostat is playing up on your car.
DJMC said:
If the service manager knew what was supposed to be reflected by the oil temp gauge that would be a starting point perhaps?
e.g. IF it's supposed to stay constant at 105C (as it always has done) he could think "Hmmm... must be a faulty thermostat/sensor/ECU/etc."
But the reference material he's using is "another 981 we tried." Who's to say that's running correctly?
Very woolly.
Some posts on this thread report static temp, others fluctuating. So there's no consensus here, nor on the wider web, nor at the OPC... who DOES know what is correct? I doubt very much it's supposed to be "either is fine" and even if it was, why has mine changed from one way to the other?
I would not normally worry about temps that much , it's the 30 miles or 30 minutes to get to temp you stated, that's a big issue and would point to the thermostat imo.e.g. IF it's supposed to stay constant at 105C (as it always has done) he could think "Hmmm... must be a faulty thermostat/sensor/ECU/etc."
But the reference material he's using is "another 981 we tried." Who's to say that's running correctly?
Very woolly.
Some posts on this thread report static temp, others fluctuating. So there's no consensus here, nor on the wider web, nor at the OPC... who DOES know what is correct? I doubt very much it's supposed to be "either is fine" and even if it was, why has mine changed from one way to the other?
to quote you " I drove for 30 miles in Normal mode, the oil temp took 20 miles to get to 90 degrees" as I said temp should take about 5 miles
Twinfan said:
It certainly sounds like the thermostat is playing up on your car.
I vaguely recall water thermostat issues from 40 years ago, when you could tinker under the bonnet.So, let's think... I came off the motorway and shifted from Sport to Normal and the temp dropped from 87C to 81C at traffic lights.
Oil thermostat (assuming there IS one, or two) would want to close off the Sport oil cooler (how many oil coolers are there?) to bring the temp back up high for Normal mode, but it can't as it's stuck open. So, at idle the temp drops as oil is flowing through the Sport oil rad with nothing much to cool. OK, that points to a sticky stat.
Then later, in Normal, the temp fluctuates up and down every 30 seconds. Hmmm... can't explain that one away with a sticky stat. Anyone? Maybe the stat is yo-yo-ing, but I can't think how that would occur?
Are there any electronics which control any oil valves and which take instructions from the gauge readout or elsewhere? Clutching at straws...
DJMC said:
So, let's think... I came off the motorway and shifted from Sport to Normal and the temp dropped from 87C to 81C at traffic lights.
That alone shows there is a fault. Normal oil temp is always higher than Sport in my car.Do you have an 'S'? If so, do you have the third rad? I can't remember which cars have it now. It might come with Sport Chrono?
Twinfan said:
That alone shows there is a fault. Normal oil temp is always higher than Sport in my car.
Do you have an 'S'? If so, do you have the third rad? I can't remember which cars have it now. It might come with Sport Chrono?
No, base 2.7 PDK 981 May 2014. No centre rad, no Sport Chrono, but I'm assuming it has at least one rad for the Sport mode so as to cool the oil in Sport. That did appear to lower it by around 8C when Sport activated on the motorway, suggesting its thermostat is working.Do you have an 'S'? If so, do you have the third rad? I can't remember which cars have it now. It might come with Sport Chrono?
But hang on... surely a stat alone cannot be lowering the oil temp in Sport mode otherwise it would be lower on other occasions when driving sportily? There must be some correlation between pressing the Sport button and the oil temp being then able to drop below the temp for Normal? I seem to recall the temp drops when the 981 hits a certain number of revs too (4000/5000?), suggesting another electronic link to opening the Sport oil cooler? Can't say I've ever noticed this drop. And yes, I have had it over 4000rpm!
OPC service manager has phoned again. The chap I spoke to from Porsche GB CS has contacted him and suggested he keeps the car while they investigate, meanwhile PGB will provide me with a loan car.
Interesting that PGB have picked up on my issue before even receiving the ticket from the OPC. That's really quite impressive.
Service manager confirmed they will get the ticket off to PGB this afternoon. He also told me the car has no oil thermostats. Everything is vacuum operated apparently.
That may tie in with what Ian, the workshop manager at RPM Technik, told me when I asked him for an opinion as to what could be causing the fault. He suggested the OPC may have knocked a vacuum line off somewhere.
Interesting that PGB have picked up on my issue before even receiving the ticket from the OPC. That's really quite impressive.
Service manager confirmed they will get the ticket off to PGB this afternoon. He also told me the car has no oil thermostats. Everything is vacuum operated apparently.
That may tie in with what Ian, the workshop manager at RPM Technik, told me when I asked him for an opinion as to what could be causing the fault. He suggested the OPC may have knocked a vacuum line off somewhere.
Porsche911R said:
if it take 30 miles to warm up looks like the thermostat issue, oil should be warm after 5 miles.
Takes my 981 about 15 mins/10 miles to get to 90 degrees, Wouldn’t have thought that many cars fully warm their oil after just 5 miles (unless in very slow moving traffic obviously)99 - 105 = motorway
103-109 = busy crap city conditions with start-stop
(If average outside temp. quite low, let's say below 4, this might change a bit!)
94 is not a correct reading, for a flat 6 imho. Something definitely up, hopefully they can sort it out soon!. The interns at the OPC are famous for over-priced but sloppy jobs in general :/
103-109 = busy crap city conditions with start-stop
(If average outside temp. quite low, let's say below 4, this might change a bit!)
94 is not a correct reading, for a flat 6 imho. Something definitely up, hopefully they can sort it out soon!. The interns at the OPC are famous for over-priced but sloppy jobs in general :/
Update.
To PGB:
"Hi Rob,
Once again the service manager is saying there's nothing wrong, below...
My concerns are:
- Why is Sport or Sport Plus being discussed when the issue is in Normal mode?
- Why is reducing water temp being discussed when it always shows as 90C?
- Oil temp must be above 100C to evaporate water in the engine and avoid corrosion. 81C or 95C isn't sufficient. Is there a LOW temp warning light?
- The new oil is the same viscosity as the old oil. Mobil 1 0W-40. Old oil put in by Porsche Leicester. I have checked with them and it was 0W-40 at 20k miles.
- The oil temp has always read 105C. Why would it now fluctuate?
- New oil may give a different temp due to viscosity perhaps, but not a fluctuating one between 81C-101C where old oil gave a steady reading of 105C.
- What IS the correct reading for the oil gauge? Is it a steady one, as per the water temp gauge, or should it read the actual temp?
- Why has he used other Caymans as a "guide" to what is correct? What does the workshop manual say is the correct reading for the oil gauge?
Kind regards"
From OPC service manager yesterday:
"Good afternoon,
We have had a reply from Porsche technical regarding your issue and the answer is below.
'I believe this is normal.
When the sport button or sport plus is selected various valves in the cooling system open to lower the cooling system temperature in anticipation of a more sporty driving style. If the coolant temperature goes down, this will have a slight effect on the oil temperature going down also.
The temperatures indicated by the customer are of no concern, the oil temperature is within it tolerance range hence no warning lights.
If only the oil has been changed and no programming carried out, the only thing that may have an effect that the customer describes is if the oil viscosity is different to what was previously in the car.'
The only reason I can see that would change the way your system is reading is the oil viscosity which we have already discussed and is mentioned by Porsche above.
Another Cayman was in for service this morning and on road test it was running very similarly to yours.
My technicians have checked your vehicle and cannot find any faults at all. All vacuum hoses are attached, in good condition and the relevant valves are all working as they should. We have carried out a road test on your vehicle and I will be carrying out a road test on another vehicle tomorrow. I will then compare the results and let you know."
Rob at PGB understands my concerns and will come back to me today.
To PGB:
"Hi Rob,
Once again the service manager is saying there's nothing wrong, below...
My concerns are:
- Why is Sport or Sport Plus being discussed when the issue is in Normal mode?
- Why is reducing water temp being discussed when it always shows as 90C?
- Oil temp must be above 100C to evaporate water in the engine and avoid corrosion. 81C or 95C isn't sufficient. Is there a LOW temp warning light?
- The new oil is the same viscosity as the old oil. Mobil 1 0W-40. Old oil put in by Porsche Leicester. I have checked with them and it was 0W-40 at 20k miles.
- The oil temp has always read 105C. Why would it now fluctuate?
- New oil may give a different temp due to viscosity perhaps, but not a fluctuating one between 81C-101C where old oil gave a steady reading of 105C.
- What IS the correct reading for the oil gauge? Is it a steady one, as per the water temp gauge, or should it read the actual temp?
- Why has he used other Caymans as a "guide" to what is correct? What does the workshop manual say is the correct reading for the oil gauge?
Kind regards"
From OPC service manager yesterday:
"Good afternoon,
We have had a reply from Porsche technical regarding your issue and the answer is below.
'I believe this is normal.
When the sport button or sport plus is selected various valves in the cooling system open to lower the cooling system temperature in anticipation of a more sporty driving style. If the coolant temperature goes down, this will have a slight effect on the oil temperature going down also.
The temperatures indicated by the customer are of no concern, the oil temperature is within it tolerance range hence no warning lights.
If only the oil has been changed and no programming carried out, the only thing that may have an effect that the customer describes is if the oil viscosity is different to what was previously in the car.'
The only reason I can see that would change the way your system is reading is the oil viscosity which we have already discussed and is mentioned by Porsche above.
Another Cayman was in for service this morning and on road test it was running very similarly to yours.
My technicians have checked your vehicle and cannot find any faults at all. All vacuum hoses are attached, in good condition and the relevant valves are all working as they should. We have carried out a road test on your vehicle and I will be carrying out a road test on another vehicle tomorrow. I will then compare the results and let you know."
Rob at PGB understands my concerns and will come back to me today.
When I spoke to Rob at PGB this morning he was fairly sure that the oil temp gauge reads the ACTUAL oil temp.
So, why has mine been reading a static 105C for 27k miles? What has caused it to now read the temp as it fluctuates? If it's reading the actual oil temp, the temp is too low. MUST be one or more problems.
He said the issue is the OPC can't find anything wrong. Well, 81C seems to me to be something wrong. What he meant is there appears to be no cause. MUST be a cause, they just haven't found it!
I asked him to find out for sure what the oil gauge tells me as NOBODY so far has been able to answer what it's supposed to read, static "green light" figure, or actual.
So, why has mine been reading a static 105C for 27k miles? What has caused it to now read the temp as it fluctuates? If it's reading the actual oil temp, the temp is too low. MUST be one or more problems.
He said the issue is the OPC can't find anything wrong. Well, 81C seems to me to be something wrong. What he meant is there appears to be no cause. MUST be a cause, they just haven't found it!
I asked him to find out for sure what the oil gauge tells me as NOBODY so far has been able to answer what it's supposed to read, static "green light" figure, or actual.
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