718 track day use

[git-r]

gtsralph said:

Brian indeed, very balanced views. As mentioned, 9e would be a useful contact as they have started on a 718 journey

Mine is a 981S with a Ehresmann installed and tuned 3.8L with custom suspension by Centre Gravity. My experience of that generation before modifying it was that it would pound round track all day with no complaints (and none from the driver) but Pirelli tyres were completely unsatisfactory to road and track, and depending on driving style (mainly around corner entry) more camber was required. Brian seems quite adept at doing what escaped me, running quickly and not killing tyres with stock suspension (albeit at the limits of what is possible)

Thanks for the reply

Yes I read Brian’s thread, such a small internet as it’s one of the only things that comes up when searching google for 718 and track day.

I’ve been schooled that tyres are evil and must be destroyed so think I’ll be in the same boat as you. Was it the outside edges of the tyres that were wearing when you were running the stock suspension?

You found the brakes ok though?

Are you tall? - any issues with space inside the cabin?

[git-r]

Porsche911R said:

modern cars need less camber due to PTV

I’m not really sure how PTV works but would I be right in thinking it only saves tyres on corner exit not turn in?

[gtsralph]

git-r said:

Thanks for the reply

Yes I read Brian’s thread, such a small internet as it’s one of the only things that comes up when searching google for 718 and track day.

I’ve been schooled that tyres are evil and must be destroyed so think I’ll be in the same boat as you. Was it the outside edges of the tyres that were wearing when you were running the stock suspension?

You found the brakes ok though?

Are you tall? - any issues with space inside the cabin?

Pirelli tyres just did not have decent grip, rolling over loaded front.

Changing to MPSS improved handling with camber maxed out before extensive suspension mods. I now run Cup2 so further reason to crank on camber. But part of the fun is in managing limitations and driving to get best from whatever package, you then get a good idea of how to spend money on improvements.

I try to do smooth and the last set of Cup2 did 7k miles and 8 track days before getting too polluted by other people's rubber on 3 track days in Iberia.

Stock brakes were fine if a little weedy looking, I upgraded them just before 3.8L engine installed because it seemed to be a sensible thing to before adding another 90hp. I recall Steve Rance posting how brakes can be overheated by longer and softer braking versus quicker on/bleed off which allows more cooling recovery time. Rears wear faster than front due to nanny intervention.

I am 6 2 with tall upper body so I run with seats at lowest height to allow comfort wearing helmet.

[LaSource]

git-r said:

Intake/oil/water/transmission temps and oil pressure on track under heavy cornering with the cup 2’s, everything before and after running the extra power would be ideal, knowing this would be hugely reassuring! Lol after many hours googling I haven’t been able to answer any of those questions!

They probably don’t have time to comment.

Do you know how these cars fit for a bigger boned gentleman? (I’m not that fat, it’s the headroom with helmet that usually doesn’t work for me)

So chatting with 9e about the 718s, they have done over 1000 miles of testing on their current tune of the car without any issues. The car ran 64 laps at Spa in total from the data - intake temps, oil temps , coolant etc were unaffected by the tuning lap after lap.
The car has also been maxed out multiple times and has been driven at high speed for long periods.

In terms of the Spa session the point was to run the car at a decent pace on stock geo and brakes. Clearly better dampers / geo and brakes would make it a great car but as I said earlier, for average track day driver probably better brakes and geo would suffice.

In terms of size, the 718 in the video was being driven by a 6' 4" Dane built like a tank In fact he reminds me how him plus his son in the pax seat represented a 100+ kg weight penalty too!

[Porsche911R]

git-r said:

I’m not really sure how PTV works but would I be right in thinking it only saves tyres on corner exit not turn in?

PTV works by automatically applying brakes to the inside rear wheel during a turn in :-) not exit that's PSM

[git-r]

gtsralph said:

Pirelli tyres just did not have decent grip, rolling over loaded front.

Changing to MPSS improved handling with camber maxed out before extensive suspension mods. I now run Cup2 so further reason to crank on camber. But part of the fun is in managing limitations and driving to get best from whatever package, you then get a good idea of how to spend money on improvements.

I try to do smooth and the last set of Cup2 did 7k miles and 8 track days before getting too polluted by other people's rubber on 3 track days in Iberia.

Stock brakes were fine if a little weedy looking, I upgraded them just before 3.8L engine installed because it seemed to be a sensible thing to before adding another 90hp. I recall Steve Rance posting how brakes can be overheated by longer and softer braking versus quicker on/bleed off which allows more cooling recovery time. Rears wear faster than front due to nanny intervention.

I am 6 2 with tall upper body so I run with seats at lowest height to allow comfort wearing helmet.

Sorry, the Pirelli rolled over, did you mean they wore on the edges ?

And for your cup 2’s how was the wear on the outside edge?

Thanks for sharing the info about your car, I bet that’s fantastic to drive!

Fingers crossed I’d fit ok.

[git-r]

LaSource said:

So chatting with 9e about the 718s, they have done over 1000 miles of testing on their current tune of the car without any issues. The car ran 64 laps at Spa in total from the data - intake temps, oil temps , coolant etc were unaffected by the tuning lap after lap.
The car has also been maxed out multiple times and has been driven at high speed for long periods.

In terms of the Spa session the point was to run the car at a decent pace on stock geo and brakes. Clearly better dampers / geo and brakes would make it a great car but as I said earlier, for average track day driver probably better brakes and geo would suffice.

In terms of size, the 718 in the video was being driven by a 6' 4" Dane built like a tank In fact he reminds me how him plus his son in the pax seat represented a 100+ kg weight penalty too!

Huge thanks for sharing this. And that’s how it should be done when tuning. That’d give me full confidence in using them to tune a 718 if I had one.

I’ve a fair bit of experience with track days but am happy to accept I’ll never be that fast. I absolutely love driving on track though, have found the addiction gets worse with age lol!

[git-r]

Porsche911R said:

PTV works by automatically applying brakes to the inside rear wheel during a turn in :-) not exit that's PSM

Ah ok, thanks for explaining that. Is it possible to turn this off completely if required?

[gtsralph]

git-r said:

Sorry, the Pirelli rolled over, did you mean they wore on the edges ?

And for your cup 2’s how was the wear on the outside edge?

Thanks for sharing the info about your car, I bet that’s fantastic to drive!

Fingers crossed I’d fit ok.

They certainly did wear the edges and I could hear it from inside the car.

Cup2 wear pretty even across the tread as were temperatures immediately after each run on track.

I am at Silverstone on May 10 with BaT.

[git-r]

gtsralph said:

They certainly did wear the edges and I could hear it from inside the car.

Cup2 wear pretty even across the tread as were temperatures immediately after each run on track.

I am at Silverstone on May 10 with BaT.

Ok, thanks for that, I thought that’d be the case.
Have fun at Silverstone, please share some footage if you get any

[git-r]

For anyone interested I found this video of a new GTS at Monza.

The driver is very good and has experience of vastly more expensive cars yet rates the GTS very highly saying it’s the best track ready car on the market. He goes into detail in the description, very interesting read as he compares it to his GT3 and reckons that with some better tyres, camber and remap it’’d be as quick.

https://youtu.be/vsQDY4XwxDQ

[boxsey]

git-r said:

I’ve a fair bit of experience with track days but am happy to accept I’ll never be that fast. I absolutely love driving on track though, have found the addiction gets worse with age lol!

So, are you retiring your R32 from track day duty? Have enjoyed watching your youtube vids in the past.

[Porsche911R]

git-r said:

For anyone interested I found this video of a new GTS at Monza.

The driver is very good and has experience of vastly more expensive cars yet rates the GTS very highly saying it’s the best track ready car on the market. He goes into detail in the description, very interesting read as he compares it to his GT3 and reckons that with some better tyres, camber and remap it’’d be as quick.

https://youtu.be/vsQDY4XwxDQ

never be as quick due to the tyre foot print 235/265 and the G will be about 1.3 at best (guessing), on P zero I could not get above 1.1G where my GT4 pulls 1.5g

A modern GT3 RS will pull >1.7g on 265/325 tyres with aero. that's a lot of grip !!!!

But yes they are a fast car done and said all, but a bit dull and still sound naff.

watching normal track cars with PDK is the dullest past time, and the dullest driving experience lol

Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 4th May 13:24

[TDT]

The comments by the driver in the description about the possible effects of even a mild tweak to set up (Tyres, Camber, and Stage1 tune to 400hp) means that if the new GT4 is a step up again on the GTS - the GT4 is gonna be flipping rapid.

Porsche have got a tough job of positioning this correctly, but there is a performance gap to fill in the new/current sports-car lineup - just a question of how close they go to the 911 natural ceiling for the Cayman

[anonymous-user]

Porsche911R said:

But yes they are a fast car done and said all, but a bit dull and still sound naff.

Said the bloke who can’t wait to get his hands on a 20-year old Lotus (Exige Sport 410) with a Toyota Camry engine in it....

Porsche911R said:

I have been waiting for this car for 10 years lol or a car Lotus make I want. This is a car I want and expected Lotus to make, so I am going to buy it.

[Porsche911R]

TDT said:

The comments by the driver in the description about the possible effects of even a mild tweak to set up (Tyres, Camber, and Stage1 tune to 400hp) means that if the new GT4 is a step up again on the GTS - the GT4 is gonna be flipping rapid.

Porsche have got a tough job of positioning this correctly, but there is a performance gap to fill in the new/current sports-car lineup - just a question of how close the go to the 911 natural ceiling for the Cayman

410/420BHP sounds about right for a GT4 in the line up.
A lot of new cars coming out with 400BHP so they can really set it what they feel like from 400 to 450 I guess.

[Porsche911R]

rockin said:

Porsche911R said:

But yes they are a fast car done and said all, but a bit dull and still sound naff.

Said the bloke who can’t wait to get his hands on a 20-year old Lotus (Exige Sport 410) with a Toyota Camry engine in it....

Porsche911R said:

I have been waiting for this car for 10 years lol or a car Lotus make I want. This is a car I want and expected Lotus to make, so I am going to buy it.

yep not a fan of the engine 100% but it has 6 pistons :-) and sounds quite good.

https://binged.it/2JVcPXY

[git-r]

boxsey said:

So, are you retiring your R32 from track day duty? Have enjoyed watching your youtube vids in the past.

That’s nice to hear, thank you

Tbh I’m not really sure. The 32 is fantastic on track and extremely fast putting in lap times similar to modern supercars but I’ve been driving 32’s since 2005! It still makes me smile looking at it and driving it though.

I’ve never driven a ‘proper’ sports car with mid engine so think a cayman might be the answer, esp with it being turbo’d it’d leave some potential tuning if I got bored. I also think it looks absolutely stunning!

[git-r]

Porsche911R said:

never be as quick due to the tyre foot print 235/265 and the G will be about 1.3 at best (guessing), on P zero I could not get above 1.1G where my GT4 pulls 1.5g

A modern GT3 RS will pull >1.7g on 265/325 tyres with aero. that's a lot of grip !!!!

But yes they are a fast car done and said all, but a bit dull and still sound naff.

watching normal track cars with PDK is the dullest past time, and the dullest driving experience lol

Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 4th May 13:24

Wow, they’re some extremely high g you mention - is this peak or sustained and on slicks?

1.1g is good and what I’d expect from a road car.

There’s another video I found of a GTS on track and it’s making some good g:
https://youtu.be/5KtuH-smyXk

[git-r]

TDT said:

The comments by the driver in the description about the possible effects of even a mild tweak to set up (Tyres, Camber, and Stage1 tune to 400hp) means that if the new GT4 is a step up again on the GTS - the GT4 is gonna be flipping rapid.

Porsche have got a tough job of positioning this correctly, but there is a performance gap to fill in the new/current sports-car lineup - just a question of how close they go to the 911 natural ceiling for the Cayman

Agreed, the new GT4 should be very very fast, it has to be a fair bit more powerful that the S/GTS which is already quick. I’ve read some reports of the breaking into the 11’s on the 1/4 and sub 4 seconds to 60 which is SO impressive!