981S vs 718 base
Discussion
Bottom line - drive both over extended periods in the way that you will USE the car and make up your own mind. Remember that some on here KNEW that the 718 would be AWFUL (because it was a 4 pot turbo - and they are all, by definition awful) before anyone had driven - or even heard it. So just look for the issues raised - but ignore everyone elses opinion.
bcr5784 said:
Plenty of people do notice the poor throttle response of the 981S - at least compared with the best engines of the past. You can't get kangaroo petrol any more for that very reason - at least not on series production cars. Perhaps someone with a data logger could check it out - I'm sure of the outcome - but I'm sure that wouldn't want the issue confused by facts.
Driving around turbo lag is also a case of being in the right gear. As it happens I prefer the 981S engine to the 718 one overall too, but it is more complex issue to me than just lag. If others prefer the mid range response of the 718 so be it.
In turbo cars that hide their lag well you tend to feel the delay when you apply the power on the exit of a corner, that just doesn't happen in the 981.Driving around turbo lag is also a case of being in the right gear. As it happens I prefer the 981S engine to the 718 one overall too, but it is more complex issue to me than just lag. If others prefer the mid range response of the 718 so be it.
Edited by bcr5784 on Sunday 18th November 17:46
I quite enjoyed my time with a base 718, I agree with Moose that you lose in terms of throttle precision and drama but on the otherhand you gain slightly better handling, updated tech and shorter gearing to entice you back to manual. It really depends what ticks most boxes for you as the driver.
bcr5784 said:
Bottom line - drive both over extended periods in the way that you will USE the car and make up your own mind. Remember that some on here KNEW that the 718 would be AWFUL (because it was a 4 pot turbo - and they are all, by definition awful) before anyone had driven - or even heard it. So just look for the issues raised - but ignore everyone elses opinion.
To be fair the 718 was worse than I expected ;-)I would have hoped that Porsche could have done a much better job with the noise as there are better sounding 4 pots out there. Re the turbo lag in a FI 4 pot , well they can;t change physics so no surprises there.
So yep you could predict it, and yes you would have been right.
To be clear, awful as in what they could / would have done but for emissions. Still now they have extra emission filters being fitted early reports suggest the sound is more muted (again as expected) even with PSE as standard. Be interesting to see how lag is comparable as presumably they have had to change the engine mapping to compensate for the loss in power, it may only be marginal but we can all predict what happens when you have to do that. Physics is great isn’t it ie it is predictable lol
jonttt said:
To be fair the 718 was worse than I expected ;-)
I would have hoped that Porsche could have done a much better job with the noise as there are better sounding 4 pots out there.
My thoughts exactly. I was expecting not to like the engine, but I wasn't expecting to hate it...I would have hoped that Porsche could have done a much better job with the noise as there are better sounding 4 pots out there.
cmoose has always hated 981. 718 is even newer and even more hated.
The 981 torque curve is not "inconsistent" - that's hogwash. It's simply an engine that has to be revved in order to get anything out of it - just like the older cars. By modern standards they're all very low on torque, or "driveability", so if you don't like that, buy a 718.
718 with PDK is a seriously quick car for the money. IMO a base 718 with PDK would easily see off the base or manual 981s and probably keep pace with even the fanciest ones.
The 981 torque curve is not "inconsistent" - that's hogwash. It's simply an engine that has to be revved in order to get anything out of it - just like the older cars. By modern standards they're all very low on torque, or "driveability", so if you don't like that, buy a 718.
718 with PDK is a seriously quick car for the money. IMO a base 718 with PDK would easily see off the base or manual 981s and probably keep pace with even the fanciest ones.
JasonSteel said:
there's definitely a dip in torque and if it's an easy fix i'll consider it.
The percentage change is small and the revs are rising so in terms of "driveability" I don't consider it particularly relevant. The car's got 6 gears and it needs to be revved - there are plenty of gear ratios to choose from. If you're "caught in the wrong gear" that's simply a fact of life with a Porsche N/A 6-pot. Tuning might make a small change to the shape of the curve but it will never change the fundamental character of these engines. Put simply, if you want to get a 6-pot Boxster/Cayman moving you need to change down and rev the nuts off it.Schmed said:
I actually quite like it. It just has a rougher edge, in my view the the '6 is massively overrated.
Sports exhaust on the downchange is good fun. The numerous cyclists I overtake and downchange while passing appear to enjoy the overrun too, I can tell by their friendly waves
It can be so easy to mistake cyclists for being rude but I can assure you the two fingers they stick up at you is to inform you how many cylinders are missing from the engine of a 718. Sports exhaust on the downchange is good fun. The numerous cyclists I overtake and downchange while passing appear to enjoy the overrun too, I can tell by their friendly waves
I'm jesting by the way. This forum needs to lighten up a little!
JasonSteel said:
there's definitely a dip in torque and if it's an easy fix i'll consider it.
the 718 isn't for me, and i don't really get along with PDK either...
As you say there is a significant dip in the torque curve the 718 isn't for me, and i don't really get along with PDK either...
As you can see the 991 doesn't suffer from it - presumably because of the different plenum on the 911. All 981s - including the GT4 have it. How easy it is to fix I can't say - but the poor response in the dip was one of my pet hates with my 981S. I have seen fixes but only as part of a more major engine mod.
bcr5784 said:
As you can see the 991 doesn't suffer from it - presumably because of the different plenum on the 911. All 981s - including the GT4 have it. How easy it is to fix I can't say - but the poor response in the dip was one of my pet hates with my 981S. I have seen fixes but only as part of a more major engine mod.
What do you do drive around in 6th all the time. Utter drivel.testdrive_tv said:
bcr5784 said:
As you can see the 991 doesn't suffer from it - presumably because of the different plenum on the 911. All 981s - including the GT4 have it. How easy it is to fix I can't say - but the poor response in the dip was one of my pet hates with my 981S. I have seen fixes but only as part of a more major engine mod.
What do you do drive around in 6th all the time. Utter drivel.But do try to keep a civil tongue in your head and make a sensible comment rather than resorting to abuse - there is far too much of that on this forum.
bcr5784 said:
If it doesn't bother you fine. But you will see if you trawl round the forum that it bothers some of us - including the poster which my response was addressed to. Try overtaking at 50 in 3rd (manual) and you are in the middle of the dip and the car seems to take forever to respond. Sure you can use 2nd but some of us don't want to have to use 2nd ALL the time on B roads to get past. If the gearing on the 981 was more sensible it would be far less of an issue . It's still an issue with PDK - but less of one.
But do try to keep a civil tongue in your head and make a sensible comment rather than resorting to abuse - there is far too much of that on this forum.
If you took the time to post accurately it would help keep the thread on track, I haven't been abusive toward you.But do try to keep a civil tongue in your head and make a sensible comment rather than resorting to abuse - there is far too much of that on this forum.
First you mentioned throttle response and now you are into torque dips spoiling the 981, as you've said above your issue is long gearing in the manual car (which I agree with btw).
I would also say that if you are struggling to overtake in 3rd then you should consider improvement in the planning of your manoeuver.
Edited by testdrive_tv on Wednesday 21st November 18:37
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