718 GT4 - Have I lost the plot?
Discussion
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Torque wins lap times on LIKE for like cars !so they will do the same speed as the same BHP but the one with more Torque at the apex will get to it's max speed faster and then thus a faster straight line speed as it got to the same speed in a shorter distance than the car with less torque.
That's Torque for you :-) not sure why you are so hung up on cars with no torque ! every one here love the stuff. GT3 is a good point in question, the car has such a little amount more but feels night and day faster and better to drive, but both have about 500PS.
Basic car stuff. no point quoting meaningless numbers or 2.5k revs, the fact is like for like cars the one with more torque laps faster.
Olivera said:
All of the fast nurburgring lap times and other magazine test videos have the driver changing at around 7500rpm in the GT4. The Porsche book figure is peak power at 7400rpm.
we will never know what the difference is, as I did not vbox it and no one else ever will.but I never red lined my GT4 it did not seem to do anything ! I also then had a 981 Spyder and ment to do it again I drove that even lower revs after my GT4 ownship, it seems to make no odds, if anything the Sypder was faster as it had 10k miles on it and just felt like it had more go.
so you have a win win, you pretend the max red line is 7k revs and then you don't notice the long gearing either, the extra Torque from the 3.8 and changing at 7k revs was the nicest way to drive them on the road imo.
I wish I vboxed the performance difference now. to 200kph.
red line a GT4 and it's just noise and you tend to run out of road, people laughed but you can just leave these cars in 3rd gear and not bother changing on a B road, it was juts not an exciting car to drive sadly.
isaldiri said:
^ this. Power on the ground is what determines optimum shift points so that's gearing affected as well. Iirc on the gt4 you still rev to 7800 until 4th gear when changing very slightly before then becomes the better option.
but the GT4 makes peak power at 6.4 rpm ! it's great all this on paper talk, but in the real world the vbox figures would be closer than you would think imo. when you drive these cars you don't go wow and get the feeling the cars doing anything above 6.5k revs,what you are thinking about then is ffs how long does it take before I can change gear again , stupid long gearing ! it's pretty painful the GT4 from 6.5k to 7.5k and seem to take an age ! even if it's faster it feels s
t, hence I never did it when I ran the 981 Spyder.change gear at 7.8k revs or what ever it is, you drop to 7.1 revs both which are a lower than the peak BHP at 6.5k revs !
change gear at 6.5 revs drop the car to 5.7 revs which is still more BHP than at 7.1 revs !!! and you also get another 60 lb/ft torque ! while having more BHP and both on a climb rate to peak.
as no one changes gear at true red line, you might land your self in the GT4 6.8 dip !! changing at 7.5k revs also !
I am just saying there is not much in it out in the real world if you shift at 6.5k or 7.5k as far as in car feel for speed goes.
no on paper states will prove other wise or forum talk about under the curve data, only real vbox data would show the difference.
even if it's just in your head due to having 60 lf/ft more torque the car feels better and more alive short shifting imo the added plus also is you shift more .
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I bring up a stat, not really needed but a stat which is a fact about the GT2RS , you talk about having sex with kids to make a point on a 993 price ! Like wise I did not then respond to the 3 pages of sex with kids talk ! and hence you did not have to bring up 2.5k revs to make a point later .I think you need to take a look in the mirror on the "There is something wrong with you, old stick" statement lol
If anything my 981 Spyder feels slightly quicker than my GT4..This is probably down to being slightly lighter overall plus having sigificantly less unsprung weight, due to smaller wheels,tyres ans brakes.In fact my Spyder already feels too quick for UK roads and my GT3 needs to be driven with some restraint to avoid attention from the fuzz..
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I kept well out of that thread as you noticed, so not nasty in any way shape or form, I am now making a statement after you keep calling me a fool, and it's you making the personal attacks time and time again. You call me out and keep making personal attacks I'll requote you, it's that simple. they were your words , yet you call me the fool !again in this thread you call me a fool for what the 3rd time ! after telling me "There is something wrong with you"
you also say to me "all the gear no idea" and mush worse, so grow up a bit.
and now "penetrate your thick skull" to add to this line of abuse !
you have really big issue....!!! and cannot debate a BHP GT4 issue without being nasty yourself !
Edited by Porsche911R on Thursday 27th September 10:33
anonymous said:
[redacted]
If you think I get the abuse I deserve given out by yourself then you are the nasty person in these forum conflicts.It's as simple as that. I try and conduct myself in a non personal manner when I have strong opinions on items.
You like 5 or 6 of the main abusers sadly result to personal abuse.
Porsche911R said:
but the GT4 makes peak power at 6.4 rpm ! it's great all this on paper talk, but in the real world the vbox figures would be closer than you would think imo. when you drive these cars you don't go wow and get the feeling the cars doing anything above 6.5k revs,what you are thinking about then is ffs how long does it take before I can change gear again , stupid long gearing ! it's pretty painful the GT4 from 6.5k to 7.5k and seem to take an age ! even if it's faster it feels st, hence I never did it when I ran the 981 Spyder.
change gear at 7.8k revs or what ever it is, you drop to 7.1 revs both which are a lower than the peak BHP at 6.5k revs !
change gear at 6.5 revs drop the car to 5.7 revs which is still more BHP than at 7.1 revs !!! and you also get another 60 lb/ft torque ! while having more BHP and both on a climb rate to peak.
as no one changes gear at true red line, you might land your self in the GT4 6.8 dip !! changing at 7.5k revs also !
I am just saying there is not much in it out in the real world if you shift at 6.5k or 7.5k as far as in car feel for speed goes.
no on paper states will prove other wise or forum talk about under the curve data, only real vbox data would show the difference.
even if it's just in your head due to having 60 lf/ft more torque the car feels better and more alive short shifting imo the added plus also is you shift more .
Look. The maths says optimum shifting is at the 7800 rpm for pure acceleration in most gears. Unless Porsche are lying about the engine dyno and it's hugely different to claimed, I prefer to believe the maths that what you think you feel. t, hence I never did it when I ran the 981 Spyder.change gear at 7.8k revs or what ever it is, you drop to 7.1 revs both which are a lower than the peak BHP at 6.5k revs !
change gear at 6.5 revs drop the car to 5.7 revs which is still more BHP than at 7.1 revs !!! and you also get another 60 lb/ft torque ! while having more BHP and both on a climb rate to peak.
as no one changes gear at true red line, you might land your self in the GT4 6.8 dip !! changing at 7.5k revs also !
I am just saying there is not much in it out in the real world if you shift at 6.5k or 7.5k as far as in car feel for speed goes.
no on paper states will prove other wise or forum talk about under the curve data, only real vbox data would show the difference.
even if it's just in your head due to having 60 lf/ft more torque the car feels better and more alive short shifting imo the added plus also is you shift more .
isaldiri said:
Look. The maths says optimum shifting is at the 7800 rpm for pure acceleration in most gears. Unless Porsche are lying about the engine dyno and it's hugely different to claimed, I prefer to believe the maths that what you think you feel.
we have about 40 or 50 Dyno plots from the GT4 which prove the Porsche dyno is made up :-(So as I stated without vboxing the cars, making up figures from Porsche seems daft imo. I used my GT4 for 2 years and ran the Spyder as a full daily car though the summer, the cars feel lifeless higher up the revs in the real world which backs up all these plots on 3rd party dyno's, so without real data we are at a stuck point to carry on with it as I don't trust Porsche dyno plot for the car at all.
you owned one did you not and sold it pretty quick , what were the reasons for selling ? engine, gearing or some thing else ?
Edited by Porsche911R on Thursday 27th September 11:15
Porsche911R said:
we have about 40 or 50 Dyno plots from the GT4 which prove the Porsche dyno is made up :-(
So as I stated without vboxing the cars, making up figures from Porsche seems daft imo. I used my GT4 for 2 years and ran the Spyder as a full daily car though the summer, the cars feel lifeless higher up the revs in the real world which backs up all these plots on 3rd party dyno's, so without real data we are at a stuck point to carry on with it as I don't trust Porsche dyno plot for the car at all.
you owned one did you not and sold it pretty quick , what were the reasons for selling ? engine, gearing or some thing else ?
Porsche factory graphSo as I stated without vboxing the cars, making up figures from Porsche seems daft imo. I used my GT4 for 2 years and ran the Spyder as a full daily car though the summer, the cars feel lifeless higher up the revs in the real world which backs up all these plots on 3rd party dyno's, so without real data we are at a stuck point to carry on with it as I don't trust Porsche dyno plot for the car at all.
you owned one did you not and sold it pretty quick , what were the reasons for selling ? engine, gearing or some thing else ?
SportAuto dyno
Power drops off roughly the same rate as the factory graph after 7400 rpm. It's not going to change the ideal shift points.
Why I sold my gt4 shortly is no bearing on what we are disagreeing on - ie whether acceleration is optimised at the rev limit....
isaldiri said:
Power drops off roughly the same rate as the factory graph after 7400 rpm. It's not going to change the ideal shift points.
Why I sold my gt4 shortly is no bearing on what we are disagreeing on - ie whether acceleration is optimised at the rev limit....
why are you ignoring the 6.5 peak ? and that drop off after that ? any way as I said, I only go on real data, I have proved many people wrong before with a Vbox over maths, as on the road things are just different.Why I sold my gt4 shortly is no bearing on what we are disagreeing on - ie whether acceleration is optimised at the rev limit....
Porsche911R said:
why are you ignoring the 6.5 peak ? and that drop off after that ? any way as I said, I only go on real data, I have proved many people wrong before with a Vbox over maths, as on the road things are just different.
6.5 peak is torque. What matters as has been repeatedly said is power on the ground, power being torque x rpm. The power at 7500+ with a lower gear is still higher than the power with the next gear up at whatever rpm that will be. As i said, the theory definitely trumps what you think you feel....isaldiri said:
6.5 peak is torque. What matters as has been repeatedly said is power on the ground, power being torque x rpm. The power at 7500+ with a lower gear is still higher than the power with the next gear up at whatever rpm that will be. As i said, the theory definitely trumps what you think you feel....
6.5k is peak BHP :-) it drops off then has a 2nd lower peak, what are you looking at ;-)Porsche911R said:
6.5k is peak BHP :-) it drops off then has a 2nd lower peak, what are you looking at ;-)
I should be asking you that question. Torque peak is 6500 but power is what really matters and is essentially the same from 6500 to 7400 ~390PS. Shifting at 6500 drops you far lower down the power curve on the next gear than doing so at 7500+.Gassing Station | Boxster/Cayman | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff