Discussion
Slippydiff said:
ATM said:
Thanks
I'm still topping up the clutch fluid every couple of weeks depending if I use the car. I really should get someone with a brain to look at it but no idea who that is. Suspect most Porsche mechanics would have never seen one of these pdk boxes in pieces.
https://austrin-engineering.co.uk/I'm still topping up the clutch fluid every couple of weeks depending if I use the car. I really should get someone with a brain to look at it but no idea who that is. Suspect most Porsche mechanics would have never seen one of these pdk boxes in pieces.
This is the result of my aquaplaning on the M5. I’ve never felt to utterly helpless. In lane 3 (lanes 1 & 2 were drenched. 3 was better, or so I thought….)
Then it happened. Large area of standing water and before I knew it the car yawed rapidly left, for which I instinctively countered and then it gripped and put me straight into the barrier. Lost track of how many times I span but came to rest across lanes 1&2 facing the wrong way. Saving grace was that it was 0630 on a Sunday morning. Sadly that could also have been a contributing factor as there was insufficient traffic to clear the water.
Car was a write off and insurance paid out. I’ve since bought another GT4 and swapped the Cup2’s for PS4S. Feel much more comfortable on them.
Then it happened. Large area of standing water and before I knew it the car yawed rapidly left, for which I instinctively countered and then it gripped and put me straight into the barrier. Lost track of how many times I span but came to rest across lanes 1&2 facing the wrong way. Saving grace was that it was 0630 on a Sunday morning. Sadly that could also have been a contributing factor as there was insufficient traffic to clear the water.
Car was a write off and insurance paid out. I’ve since bought another GT4 and swapped the Cup2’s for PS4S. Feel much more comfortable on them.
Bincenzo said:
This is the result of my aquaplaning on the M5. I’ve never felt to utterly helpless. In lane 3 (lanes 1 & 2 were drenched. 3 was better, or so I thought….)
Then it happened. Large area of standing water and before I knew it the car yawed rapidly left, for which I instinctively countered and then it gripped and put me straight into the barrier. Lost track of how many times I span but came to rest across lanes 1&2 facing the wrong way. Saving grace was that it was 0630 on a Sunday morning. Sadly that could also have been a contributing factor as there was insufficient traffic to clear the water.
Car was a write off and insurance paid out. I’ve since bought another GT4 and swapped the Cup2’s for PS4S. Feel much more comfortable on them.
YesThen it happened. Large area of standing water and before I knew it the car yawed rapidly left, for which I instinctively countered and then it gripped and put me straight into the barrier. Lost track of how many times I span but came to rest across lanes 1&2 facing the wrong way. Saving grace was that it was 0630 on a Sunday morning. Sadly that could also have been a contributing factor as there was insufficient traffic to clear the water.
Car was a write off and insurance paid out. I’ve since bought another GT4 and swapped the Cup2’s for PS4S. Feel much more comfortable on them.
I'm glad you're ok
I did this with my first Boxster in 2004. However mine pointed straight at the barrier once it exited the standing water. Looks like you had a similar experience to me in that crash. Driver corner clipped the barrier and that spun me round very fast. The police that attended told me I was lucky to live. They have attended some incidents where the nose of the car gets wedged between posts rather than bouncing off one of the posts. If the car gets wedged [at whatever speed you are going] and stops quickly the occupants can carry on travelling at speed, exit through the wind screen and end up on the other side of the motorway or down the opposite grass verge.
I dont want to sound like a scare monger but remember that PS4S tyres wont save you if there is standing water. They will be better at dealing with standing water than the Cup 2 yes. But there will be a depth of water that they cant handle at a given speed.
So your enemies here are -
- the weight distribution of the car - not much weight over the nose like a traditional car
- the width of the tyres - skinnier tyres are better at cutting through standing water
- the type of tyres - I prefer winter tyres in the colder months because the tread is clearly better at dispersing water
- speed obviously - because slower will prevent aquaplaning - not accusing you of speeding obviously
I now drive very slowly if it is very wet. Like 50mph slow.
Bincenzo said:
Thanks. Agree fully on all counts and am very aware that aquaplaning will happen to all tyres if certain conditions are met. I’ve certainly gained a whole new level of respect for puddles, that’s for sure.
I've started following trucks from a reasonable distance thinking that if the truck has dispersed the water I have a better chance of following in his tracks. Although with water which is flowing from one side of the motorway to the other like a little river I'm not sure this stands up. But hopefully it helps.Bincenzo said:
This is the result of my aquaplaning on the M5. I’ve never felt to utterly helpless. In lane 3 (lanes 1 & 2 were drenched. 3 was better, or so I thought….)
Then it happened. Large area of standing water and before I knew it the car yawed rapidly left, for which I instinctively countered and then it gripped and put me straight into the barrier. Lost track of how many times I span but came to rest across lanes 1&2 facing the wrong way. Saving grace was that it was 0630 on a Sunday morning. Sadly that could also have been a contributing factor as there was insufficient traffic to clear the water.
Car was a write off and insurance paid out. I’ve since bought another GT4 and swapped the Cup2’s for PS4S. Feel much more comfortable on them.
What speed were you doing when you came off ?Then it happened. Large area of standing water and before I knew it the car yawed rapidly left, for which I instinctively countered and then it gripped and put me straight into the barrier. Lost track of how many times I span but came to rest across lanes 1&2 facing the wrong way. Saving grace was that it was 0630 on a Sunday morning. Sadly that could also have been a contributing factor as there was insufficient traffic to clear the water.
Car was a write off and insurance paid out. I’ve since bought another GT4 and swapped the Cup2’s for PS4S. Feel much more comfortable on them.
Schmed said:
What speed were you doing when you came off ?
About 65. Pretty sure I didn’t lose any speed before I hit the barrier. In hindsight (wonderful thing) I should have been in the 50s, but it wasn’t actually raining at the time. There had clearly been a massive downpour but as you can see from the picture, it had stopped. Interestingly, the Highways Agency muppet that stayed with me (massively unhelpful throughout) mentioned that this was a notorious spot and they’d attended a few similar accidents over lockdown - no traffic to disperse the water. Bincenzo said:
Schmed said:
What speed were you doing when you came off ?
About 65. Pretty sure I didn’t lose any speed before I hit the barrier. In hindsight (wonderful thing) I should have been in the 50s, but it wasn’t actually raining at the time. There had clearly been a massive downpour but as you can see from the picture, it had stopped. Interestingly, the Highways Agency muppet that stayed with me (massively unhelpful throughout) mentioned that this was a notorious spot and they’d attended a few similar accidents over lockdown - no traffic to disperse the water. https://www.tyrereviews.com/Tyre/Michelin/Pilot-Sp...
Koolkat969 said:
Just mentioned in the other thread that the Cup2's you were on have low aqua plaining reserves according to results of the tyre tests.
https://www.tyrereviews.com/Tyre/Michelin/Pilot-Sp...
Yup, the latest Cup2s are cack in standing water. Proper dodgy in the wet in general unless they're warm. Cold and wet is nasty.https://www.tyrereviews.com/Tyre/Michelin/Pilot-Sp...
PS4Ss are a world apart in those conditions
although the other things ATM talks about above still come into play:- the weight distribution of the car - not much weight over the nose like a traditional car
- the width of the tyres - skinnier tyres are better at cutting through standing water
- speed obviously - because slower will prevent aquaplaning - not accusing you of speeding obviously
ATM said:
Yes
I'm glad you're ok
I did this with my first Boxster in 2004. However mine pointed straight at the barrier once it exited the standing water. Looks like you had a similar experience to me in that crash. Driver corner clipped the barrier and that spun me round very fast. The police that attended told me I was lucky to live. They have attended some incidents where the nose of the car gets wedged between posts rather than bouncing off one of the posts. If the car gets wedged [at whatever speed you are going] and stops quickly the occupants can carry on travelling at speed, exit through the wind screen and end up on the other side of the motorway or down the opposite grass verge.
I dont want to sound like a scare monger but remember that PS4S tyres wont save you if there is standing water. They will be better at dealing with standing water than the Cup 2 yes. But there will be a depth of water that they cant handle at a given speed.
So your enemies here are -
- the weight distribution of the car - not much weight over the nose like a traditional car
- the width of the tyres - skinnier tyres are better at cutting through standing water
- the type of tyres - I prefer winter tyres in the colder months because the tread is clearly better at dispersing water
- speed obviously - because slower will prevent aquaplaning - not accusing you of speeding obviously
I now drive very slowly if it is very wet. Like 50mph slow.
Counterintuitive I know, but a good summer tyre - eg Michelin PS4S - will (tread depth for tread depth) often out perform winter tyres in aquaplaning tests. Have a Google of some of the tests. The sipe / tread pattern in a winter tyre is more about grip in cold / slippery conditions than water clearance. I'm glad you're ok
I did this with my first Boxster in 2004. However mine pointed straight at the barrier once it exited the standing water. Looks like you had a similar experience to me in that crash. Driver corner clipped the barrier and that spun me round very fast. The police that attended told me I was lucky to live. They have attended some incidents where the nose of the car gets wedged between posts rather than bouncing off one of the posts. If the car gets wedged [at whatever speed you are going] and stops quickly the occupants can carry on travelling at speed, exit through the wind screen and end up on the other side of the motorway or down the opposite grass verge.
I dont want to sound like a scare monger but remember that PS4S tyres wont save you if there is standing water. They will be better at dealing with standing water than the Cup 2 yes. But there will be a depth of water that they cant handle at a given speed.
So your enemies here are -
- the weight distribution of the car - not much weight over the nose like a traditional car
- the width of the tyres - skinnier tyres are better at cutting through standing water
- the type of tyres - I prefer winter tyres in the colder months because the tread is clearly better at dispersing water
- speed obviously - because slower will prevent aquaplaning - not accusing you of speeding obviously
I now drive very slowly if it is very wet. Like 50mph slow.
But whatever your tyre, it is the tread depth and tyre width that mainly determines aquaplaning tendency - at least up until a standing water depth where no tyre will resist it. Don't leave it til they are just legal
Twinfan said:
Yup, the latest Cup2s are cack in standing water. Proper dodgy in the wet in general unless they're warm. Cold and wet is nasty.
PS4Ss are a world apart in those conditions although the other things ATM talks about above still come into play:
- the weight distribution of the car - not much weight over the nose like a traditional car
- the width of the tyres - skinnier tyres are better at cutting through standing water
- speed obviously - because slower will prevent aquaplaning - not accusing you of speeding obviously
In the cold and wet PS4S are pretty nasty too. PS4Ss are a world apart in those conditions
although the other things ATM talks about above still come into play:- the weight distribution of the car - not much weight over the nose like a traditional car
- the width of the tyres - skinnier tyres are better at cutting through standing water
- speed obviously - because slower will prevent aquaplaning - not accusing you of speeding obviously
11°C, only driven 6 miles, wet road, GTS4.0, cruising at modest speed on NSL road (55) spun off road into ditch and written off. First the back stepped out, then the front.
My second set, almost new (done 388 miles) PS4S N0
Perhaps interestingly, one of the first questions that a professional crash investigator asked was “was the car on Michelin’s?”
Faboukous tyres when properly warmed up but they don’t like the cold and wet.
Discombobulate said:
Counterintuitive I know, but a good summer tyre - eg Michelin PS4S - will (tread depth for tread depth) often out perform winter tyres in aquaplaning tests. Have a Google of some of the tests. The sipe / tread pattern in a winter tyre is more about grip in cold / slippery conditions than water clearance.
But whatever your tyre, it is the tread depth and tyre width that mainly determines aquaplaning tendency - at least up until a standing water depth where no tyre will resist it. Don't leave it til they are just legal
I fell for this summer better than winter story but I won't do it again. I Aquaplaned on summer tyres in December while I had a set of winters off the car waiting for the conditions to get worse before I swapped over. The tread on these summer tyres wasn't 8mm but it also wasn't 3mm. I still have them so I should really measure them. But whatever your tyre, it is the tread depth and tyre width that mainly determines aquaplaning tendency - at least up until a standing water depth where no tyre will resist it. Don't leave it til they are just legal
I'm not saying these tests are flawed or I know better. I just think that testing a brand new summer tyre which is fresh as a daisy might perform differently than one which is 2 years old and has done a few thousand miles. The tests don't tell us that. We can't all have new tyres all the time, that's impossible. I just know I Aquaplaned on used Summers in early December even though I had a set of used winters off the car. I don't want to do that again.
ATM said:
I dropped it off on Saturday at this gearbox specialist and left it there for them to look at. Fingers crossed I get some good news this week. Its been 3 years since the crash so I decided its make or break for the car. If they tell me it will be silly money to fix then the car will have to go. If its good news and it can be repaired for a reasonable amount then its bodywork next.ATM said:
I dropped it off on Saturday at this gearbox specialist and left it there for them to look at. Fingers crossed I get some good news this week. Its been 3 years since the crash so I decided its make or break for the car. If they tell me it will be silly money to fix then the car will have to go. If its good news and it can be repaired for a reasonable amount then its bodywork next.
Fingers crossed. Keen to hear about the repairability of the PDKs. When I had my 2.9 PDK Cayman, a lot of rhetoric at the time was “if it has any problems at all, it’s a sealed unit and the whole thing gets swapped”.
That was about £10k and I began to see an ageing PDK as a risk factor. I’ve somewhat softened my stance since, as they’re generally reliable units now, but still very keen to see how you get on.
delays said:
ATM said:
I dropped it off on Saturday at this gearbox specialist and left it there for them to look at. Fingers crossed I get some good news this week. Its been 3 years since the crash so I decided its make or break for the car. If they tell me it will be silly money to fix then the car will have to go. If its good news and it can be repaired for a reasonable amount then its bodywork next.
Fingers crossed. Keen to hear about the repairability of the PDKs. When I had my 2.9 PDK Cayman, a lot of rhetoric at the time was “if it has any problems at all, it’s a sealed unit and the whole thing gets swapped”.
That was about £10k and I began to see an ageing PDK as a risk factor. I’ve somewhat softened my stance since, as they’re generally reliable units now, but still very keen to see how you get on.
I also thought they were complicated too but now I have ran mine low on fluid several times and it continues to work absolutely fine I am also softening. We all know Porsche cars are not cheap - you have to pay to play.
The PDK in the 981 is slightly different to the earlier 987 in that it has a cooler on the side - the passenger side. I say this because I ripped out the half shaft from the passenger side during the crash. I'm hoping this was flapping round and made contact with some of the pipes to the cooler or the cooler itself and perhaps punctured it slightly. Surely this can be repaired but thats all guess work.
The other option is a 2nd hand box. I did see a couple on eBay over the years. Either to salvage parts from or to replace mine entirely.
ATM said:
I fell for this summer better than winter story but I won't do it again. I Aquaplaned on summer tyres in December while I had a set of winters off the car waiting for the conditions to get worse before I swapped over. The tread on these summer tyres wasn't 8mm but it also wasn't 3mm. I still have them so I should really measure them.
I'm not saying these tests are flawed or I know better. I just think that testing a brand new summer tyre which is fresh as a daisy might perform differently than one which is 2 years old and has done a few thousand miles. The tests don't tell us that. We can't all have new tyres all the time, that's impossible. I just know I Aquaplaned on used Summers in early December even though I had a set of used winters off the car. I don't want to do that again.
My summer tyres were "as fresh as a daisy" and still behaved as it they were made of teflon.I'm not saying these tests are flawed or I know better. I just think that testing a brand new summer tyre which is fresh as a daisy might perform differently than one which is 2 years old and has done a few thousand miles. The tests don't tell us that. We can't all have new tyres all the time, that's impossible. I just know I Aquaplaned on used Summers in early December even though I had a set of used winters off the car. I don't want to do that again.
Additionally, to confound the general accepted mythology, the worn to 4mm P-Zero N1 that were fitted on the rental 718S that I did 1500 miles on, including some truly awful October weather did nit give a moments concern despite some very hard driving.
Wollemi said:
ATM said:
I fell for this summer better than winter story but I won't do it again. I Aquaplaned on summer tyres in December while I had a set of winters off the car waiting for the conditions to get worse before I swapped over. The tread on these summer tyres wasn't 8mm but it also wasn't 3mm. I still have them so I should really measure them.
I'm not saying these tests are flawed or I know better. I just think that testing a brand new summer tyre which is fresh as a daisy might perform differently than one which is 2 years old and has done a few thousand miles. The tests don't tell us that. We can't all have new tyres all the time, that's impossible. I just know I Aquaplaned on used Summers in early December even though I had a set of used winters off the car. I don't want to do that again.
My summer tyres were "as fresh as a daisy" and still behaved as it they were made of teflon.I'm not saying these tests are flawed or I know better. I just think that testing a brand new summer tyre which is fresh as a daisy might perform differently than one which is 2 years old and has done a few thousand miles. The tests don't tell us that. We can't all have new tyres all the time, that's impossible. I just know I Aquaplaned on used Summers in early December even though I had a set of used winters off the car. I don't want to do that again.
Additionally, to confound the general accepted mythology, the worn to 4mm P-Zero N1 that were fitted on the rental 718S that I did 1500 miles on, including some truly awful October weather did nit give a moments concern despite some very hard driving.
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