The new 718 Gt4/Spyder are here!
Discussion
Twinfan said:
Rojibo said:
How much of a faff is it to just do it on the cheap and swap the tyres out on the same rims as and when you need them?
You risk damaging the wheels each time, and you've got to get the car and tyres (in another much larger car!) to a suitable place each time.Much, much easier to have two sets of wheels and swap them on your driveway like I'll be doing.
TDT said:
Twinfan said:
Rojibo said:
How much of a faff is it to just do it on the cheap and swap the tyres out on the same rims as and when you need them?
You risk damaging the wheels each time, and you've got to get the car and tyres (in another much larger car!) to a suitable place each time.Much, much easier to have two sets of wheels and swap them on your driveway like I'll be doing.
Not to mention removing the stuck on balancing weights and putting a new set on after the tyres are swapped.
My OCD hates that!
PH finally release the comparison they’ve been teasing for ages.
GT4 v 718 GT4… enjoy...
https://youtu.be/6dO8njNsDKc
GT4 v 718 GT4… enjoy...
https://youtu.be/6dO8njNsDKc
Interesting stuff - thanks TDT 
I disagree with Dan regarding the steering, I think the less refined damping of the 981 causes the difference in feel. The whole of the 981 car jiggles about more and fidgets a bit so it's more about the chassis difference than steering per se in my opinion. They do feel a bit different to drive though I agree.
I also think the engine difference is much bigger than he makes out.
It would be interesting to get another journo's back-to-back review for a second opinion...
I disagree with Dan regarding the steering, I think the less refined damping of the 981 causes the difference in feel. The whole of the 981 car jiggles about more and fidgets a bit so it's more about the chassis difference than steering per se in my opinion. They do feel a bit different to drive though I agree.
I also think the engine difference is much bigger than he makes out.
It would be interesting to get another journo's back-to-back review for a second opinion...
Twinfan said:
Interesting stuff - thanks TDT
It would be interesting to get another journo's back-to-back review for a second opinion...
Evo did take a 981 up to the Knockhill launch and wrote a short comparison. I don’t want to misquote and get shot down, but I think they said both great, 718 small improvements in a number of areas that you do notice in a direct comparison, probably wouldn’t in isolation. It would be interesting to get another journo's back-to-back review for a second opinion...
arcamalpha said:
I was interested to read his comment about the seats. I felt the same but assumed it was just that my 981 seats had softened up over the years whilst the 718 ones were fresh and firmer.
That would make sense. I can't see that Porsche would have changed the seat rails, but who knows?gtsralph said:
Inside they sound the same.....
Inside sound was a non-issue for me, if what you prioritise is how it goes down the road, or around a corner.I found the cylinder de-activation and bank-switching noise more weird than anything else.
Edited by TDT on Saturday 7th November 10:24
Overall I would agree with this assessment. Especially the seats as that is exactly how I felt about mine but after a few thousand miles they do seem to have settled down.
Inside they sound the same! WTAF! They most definitely don’t, either that or the 718 he was driving was fettled. That sort of glossing over an elephant in the room rather spoils the overall report for me as it makes me doubt various other observations he makes.
The point about the Gen1 GT4 being so incredibly well balanced and nuanced in its driver interaction is surely the key to its endearing success and why quite rightly it will become a legend.
Excellent summary in the video.
Inside they sound the same! WTAF! They most definitely don’t, either that or the 718 he was driving was fettled. That sort of glossing over an elephant in the room rather spoils the overall report for me as it makes me doubt various other observations he makes.
The point about the Gen1 GT4 being so incredibly well balanced and nuanced in its driver interaction is surely the key to its endearing success and why quite rightly it will become a legend.
Excellent summary in the video.
TDT said:
Inside sound was a non-issue for me, if what you prioritise is how it goes down the road, or around a corner.
I found the cylinder de-activation and bank-switching noise more weird than anything else.
Turn off the auto-stop start every time you get in and that noise goes away I found the cylinder de-activation and bank-switching noise more weird than anything else.
bigmowley said:
Inside they sound the same! WTAF! They most definitely don’t, either that or the 718 he was driving was fettled. That sort of glossing over an elephant in the room rather spoils the overall report for me as it makes me doubt various other observations he makes.
The point about the Gen1 GT4 being so incredibly well balanced and nuanced in its driver interaction is surely the key to its endearing success and why quite rightly it will become a legend.
Excellent summary in the video.
It's interesting, I think they sound more similar than different inside when on the move with the windows up. But then after 15 years of gigging in pubs my ears are probably knackered The point about the Gen1 GT4 being so incredibly well balanced and nuanced in its driver interaction is surely the key to its endearing success and why quite rightly it will become a legend.
Excellent summary in the video.
Windows open they're very different though, as Dan hints at.There are fans of each model, and Dan is clearly a fan of the 981. Like he says, if you're chasing that "first hit of heroin" experience in the 718 GT4 you're not going to get it. Another journo make think differently, although most of them do seem to favour the 981 I think.
I'm clearly an outlier as I'd take the 718 GT4 every day and twice on Sundays for the improved engine
Twinfan said:
TDT said:
Inside sound was a non-issue for me, if what you prioritise is how it goes down the road, or around a corner.
I found the cylinder de-activation and bank-switching noise more weird than anything else.
Turn off the auto-stop start every time you get in and that noise goes away I found the cylinder de-activation and bank-switching noise more weird than anything else.
All those who have owned both will have a view and probably a more accurate view than a journo who drove the 2 over 3 or 4 hours no matter how good the journo is.
I totally disagree regarding the steering I think the new car has moved the game on, in my view you get more feel and sensitivity a better understanding of what is going on, I agree the directness is very similar. I also find the new chassis more composed.
Also disagree on the sound, I and I would think a lot of others drive with the window partly down and the sound of the new car is miles away from the old car which sounded lovely on the standard exhaust. With the windows closed I also think there is a significant difference. Big plus for the older car.
Agree with TDT about the deactivation it makes the car sound awful worse than a 4 cyl 718. First job when you start the car switch off the stop / start as it also switches off the cylinder deactivation.
Not noticed any difference with the seats, pity you cannot get the sports buckets which I find far more comfortable .
With regard to the engine, I have (due to covid) not long had it fully run in so have only enjoyed full revs for a short time but I feel it is better at the top end as it doesn't feel choked like the 981. I also think the new car pulls better from low revs .
I agree with the weighting of the clutch and while it is easier for town driving I do prefer the old car, my old 997RS had a proper weighted clutch. I note the 991 GT3 also has a much lighter clutch not a move forward in my opinion on a GT car.
Guess we will all think the car we own is the better car but as always Porsche with each generation will move the game on, each will be better by small margins and it seems each gets a little softer.
Hopefully next year we can get some miles on the car as I had 3 Euro trips cancelled this funny old year.
As always you have to own and run these cars back to back.
That’s why I am harsh on some cars which really are great cars in their own right, but run them back to back on the same day and you really see the downsides of every model where some times you might overlook it if you only own one.
Shame Dan thinks the steering is a backward step, I gave my 987.2 Spyder to Dan for the EVo review and his 1st comment was “you forget how great the old steering was”
So people get used to the vague eps modern feel and unless you run cars back to back it's ok and why 50% people have no issue in modern steering.
All the things Which frustrate me though came though in his review.
1: long gearing
2: steering feel
3: upright seats.
Imo the 718's not worth the money it now is where the £64k 981 was a steel the 718 carrying over the major flaws makes it imo poor value. But it’s still a class leaning great car.
Funny though some new owners who avoided the 981 GT4 over hype the 718 , but that’s forums and owners sadly.
These issues are so frustrating in that Porsche could fix the issue's for peanuts and make true icon, over just a great car.
This is the 3rd review now on these which has favoured the 981 !
While the new engine might be much better the gearing don't let you see the top end ! So really only noticeable on track.
That’s why I am harsh on some cars which really are great cars in their own right, but run them back to back on the same day and you really see the downsides of every model where some times you might overlook it if you only own one.
Shame Dan thinks the steering is a backward step, I gave my 987.2 Spyder to Dan for the EVo review and his 1st comment was “you forget how great the old steering was”
So people get used to the vague eps modern feel and unless you run cars back to back it's ok and why 50% people have no issue in modern steering.
All the things Which frustrate me though came though in his review.
1: long gearing
2: steering feel
3: upright seats.
Imo the 718's not worth the money it now is where the £64k 981 was a steel the 718 carrying over the major flaws makes it imo poor value. But it’s still a class leaning great car.
Funny though some new owners who avoided the 981 GT4 over hype the 718 , but that’s forums and owners sadly.
These issues are so frustrating in that Porsche could fix the issue's for peanuts and make true icon, over just a great car.
This is the 3rd review now on these which has favoured the 981 !
While the new engine might be much better the gearing don't let you see the top end ! So really only noticeable on track.
Edited by Porsche911R on Saturday 7th November 11:09
Porsche911R said:
As always you have to own and run these cars back to back.
That’s why I am harsh on some cars which really are great cars in their own right, but run them back to back on the same day and you really see the downsides of every model where some times you might overlook it if you only own one.
Shame Dan thinks the steering is a backward step, I gave my 987.2 Spyder to Dan for the EVo review and his 1st comment was “you forget how great the old steering was”
So people get used to the vague eps modern feel and unless you run cars back to back it's ok and why 50% people have no issue in modern steering.
All the things Which frustrate me though came though in his review.
1: long gearing
2: steering feel
3: upright seats.
Imo the 718's not worth the money it now is where the £64k 981 was a steel the 718 carrying over the major flaws makes it imo poor value. But it’s still a class leaning great car.
Funny though some new owners who avoided the 981 GT4 over hype the 718 , but that’s forums and owners sadly.
These issues are so frustrating in that Porsche could fix the issue's for peanuts and make true icon, over just a great car.
This is the 3rd review now on these which has favoured the 981 !
While the new engine might be much better the gearing don't let you see the top end ! So really only noticeable on track.
Does money always come into your assessment of cars That’s why I am harsh on some cars which really are great cars in their own right, but run them back to back on the same day and you really see the downsides of every model where some times you might overlook it if you only own one.
Shame Dan thinks the steering is a backward step, I gave my 987.2 Spyder to Dan for the EVo review and his 1st comment was “you forget how great the old steering was”
So people get used to the vague eps modern feel and unless you run cars back to back it's ok and why 50% people have no issue in modern steering.
All the things Which frustrate me though came though in his review.
1: long gearing
2: steering feel
3: upright seats.
Imo the 718's not worth the money it now is where the £64k 981 was a steel the 718 carrying over the major flaws makes it imo poor value. But it’s still a class leaning great car.
Funny though some new owners who avoided the 981 GT4 over hype the 718 , but that’s forums and owners sadly.
These issues are so frustrating in that Porsche could fix the issue's for peanuts and make true icon, over just a great car.
This is the 3rd review now on these which has favoured the 981 !
While the new engine might be much better the gearing don't let you see the top end ! So really only noticeable on track.
Edited by Porsche911R on Saturday 7th November 11:09
And yes it is a track car and no it’s not a GT3
MannyLon said:
Does money always come into your assessment of cars
Yes and it does for anyone buying anything, be it a car, watch or house. Does not change the flaws in the car though, but when you pay more money you want to see some basic issues fixed.
The 981 got away with it being the 1st track based Cayman and for only £64k. The 718,s not moved the game on, and in some people’s eyes gone backwards in fun, feel and noise and still has the 3 main flaws but with now 3 new ones to boot !!!
Yes we have gained a engine with top end but without a matching gear box it's a bit pointless.
I thought the 981 was a dull drive on the road myself, so for Dan to say the new cars even less exciting and involved is sad news all round. And this is the 3rd review to pick the 981 I have seen as a fun car. if you are not tracking a GT4 , people really need to be buying into Lotus Evora 410 imo.
I would buy another 981 GT4 at £50/55k but then thrown £15k at it. The issue throwing £15/20k at a £90k 718 is , that’s manual GT3 money, So IT,S always about money.
Porsche911R said:
Yes and it does for anyone buying anything, be it a car, watch or house.
Does not change the flaws in the car though, but when you pay more money you want to see some basic issues fixed.
The 981 got away with it being the 1st track based Cayman and for only £64k. The 718,s not moved the game on, and in some people’s eyes gone backwards in fun, feel and noise and still has the 3 main flaws but with now 3 new ones to boot !!!
Yes we have gained a engine with top end but without a matching gear box it's a bit pointless.
I thought the 981 was a dull drive on the road myself, so for Dan to say the new cars even less exciting and involved is sad news all round. And this is the 3rd review to pick the 981 I have seen as a fun car. if you are not tracking a GT4 , people really need to be buying into Lotus Evora 410 imo.
I would buy another 981 GT4 at £50/55k but then thrown £15k at it. The issue throwing £15/20k at a £90k 718 is , that’s manual GT3 money, So IT,S always about money.
Well let’s agree to differ. Money should not come into the assessment of a car. It’s how it feels to the individual.Does not change the flaws in the car though, but when you pay more money you want to see some basic issues fixed.
The 981 got away with it being the 1st track based Cayman and for only £64k. The 718,s not moved the game on, and in some people’s eyes gone backwards in fun, feel and noise and still has the 3 main flaws but with now 3 new ones to boot !!!
Yes we have gained a engine with top end but without a matching gear box it's a bit pointless.
I thought the 981 was a dull drive on the road myself, so for Dan to say the new cars even less exciting and involved is sad news all round. And this is the 3rd review to pick the 981 I have seen as a fun car. if you are not tracking a GT4 , people really need to be buying into Lotus Evora 410 imo.
I would buy another 981 GT4 at £50/55k but then thrown £15k at it. The issue throwing £15/20k at a £90k 718 is , that’s manual GT3 money, So IT,S always about money.
If you’re so obsessed with the price of a car, you should buy an MX5 as they are probably the best value for money driver’s cars. It’s not all about power..
Porsche911R said:
Yes and it does for anyone buying anything, be it a car, watch or house.
Does not change the flaws in the car though, but when you pay more money you want to see some basic issues fixed.
The 981 got away with it being the 1st track based Cayman and for only £64k. The 718,s not moved the game on, and in some people’s eyes gone backwards in fun, feel and noise and still has the 3 main flaws but with now 3 new ones to boot !!!
Yes we have gained a engine with top end but without a matching gear box it's a bit pointless.
I thought the 981 was a dull drive on the road myself, so for Dan to say the new cars even less exciting and involved is sad news all round. And this is the 3rd review to pick the 981 I have seen as a fun car. if you are not tracking a GT4 , people really need to be buying into Lotus Evora 410 imo.
I would buy another 981 GT4 at £50/55k but then thrown £15k at it.The issue throwing £15/20k at a £90k 718 is , that’s manual GT3 money, So IT,S always about money.
Re-gear £6K ?Does not change the flaws in the car though, but when you pay more money you want to see some basic issues fixed.
The 981 got away with it being the 1st track based Cayman and for only £64k. The 718,s not moved the game on, and in some people’s eyes gone backwards in fun, feel and noise and still has the 3 main flaws but with now 3 new ones to boot !!!
Yes we have gained a engine with top end but without a matching gear box it's a bit pointless.
I thought the 981 was a dull drive on the road myself, so for Dan to say the new cars even less exciting and involved is sad news all round. And this is the 3rd review to pick the 981 I have seen as a fun car. if you are not tracking a GT4 , people really need to be buying into Lotus Evora 410 imo.
I would buy another 981 GT4 at £50/55k but then thrown £15k at it.The issue throwing £15/20k at a £90k 718 is , that’s manual GT3 money, So IT,S always about money.
Exhaust manifolds/cats £3K ?
Ehresmann magic £1K ?
What else ? Manthey suspension at £5K ?
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