The new 718 Gt4/Spyder are here!
Discussion
Bedlamater said:
As he mentions, if you want a louder exhaust note then buy and aftermarket one of which there will no doubt be a number of options.
"They might end up being slightly louder without the filter, maybe. I bet..."From what I understand, messing around with the particulate filter is complicated from a number of stand points and will be seen as an illegal modification so it might take some time for those to materialise if at all.
Anyway, the author uses 'might' and 'I bet' which suggest hope and speculation. In the US, I have no doubt options will exist and that new owners will be modifying them before delivery. The car tested at Knockhill will be a euro spec car so a US car may not even want for modification.
Mutema said:
"They might end up being slightly louder without the filter, maybe. I bet..."
From what I understand, messing around with the particulate filter is complicated from a number of stand points and will be seen as an illegal modification so it might take some time for those to materialise if at all.
Anyway, the author uses 'might' and 'I bet' which suggest hope and speculation. In the US, I have no doubt options will exist and that new owners will be modifying them before delivery. The car tested at Knockhill will be a euro spec car so a US car may not even want for modification.
The problem lies with the back pressure created by the GPFs..The ECU is very sensitive to this hence the reason all non GPF mandatory countries are fitted with a meshed grille within the exhaust to mimic the GPFs back pressure..Removing this GPF/mesh will play hell with the ECU's brain and send the car into limp mode..This will require an ECU re-flash which will almost certainly invalidate the warranty,insurance and be illegal..From what I understand, messing around with the particulate filter is complicated from a number of stand points and will be seen as an illegal modification so it might take some time for those to materialise if at all.
Anyway, the author uses 'might' and 'I bet' which suggest hope and speculation. In the US, I have no doubt options will exist and that new owners will be modifying them before delivery. The car tested at Knockhill will be a euro spec car so a US car may not even want for modification.
Any exhaust mod will have to be limited to the centre rear muffler behind the GPF IMO..
This will be sorted quickly by the aftermarket industry (i.e. same as dealing with decats), assuming it is actually going to be bad as you say.
I remember when the 999.1 GT3 and some tale was bandied about that the car is so sensitive and finely tuned that changing the exhaust (and backpressure) would blow the car into smithereens.
I smiled when I saw my 997 system would bolt straight onto a 991...
I remember when the 999.1 GT3 and some tale was bandied about that the car is so sensitive and finely tuned that changing the exhaust (and backpressure) would blow the car into smithereens.
I smiled when I saw my 997 system would bolt straight onto a 991...
Mad Scientist said:
All good fun these reviews, and certainly better than love island, but all this talk of lighter clutch, fanny steering, less edge is complete balls. Do they really think they can recall 2015 that well? I’d bet my left foot (which I need for the light 718 clutch) they didn’t drive a 981 up to Knockhill.
I wonder who copies who in these circles too, because they all say the same things. This guy Dan also seems to have taken some journalism instruction off Chris Harris.
I’ll do a proper review of the 981 vs 718 myself, as I’ll have both of them in my garage.
The other thing I think is hilarious is how many people actually think there will be one of these for everyone who wants one!
This. See and read it all the time in modern-day car journalism. A lot of it is complete tosh.I wonder who copies who in these circles too, because they all say the same things. This guy Dan also seems to have taken some journalism instruction off Chris Harris.
I’ll do a proper review of the 981 vs 718 myself, as I’ll have both of them in my garage.
The other thing I think is hilarious is how many people actually think there will be one of these for everyone who wants one!
I've read all the reviews I can find on the 718 GT4 and it's the same regurgitated stuff from the press release. Regarding Dan taking instruction from Chris Harris, iirc Chris may have gave him a leg-up in the industry several years ago. Both from Bristol and mates. Dan was a (good) Rally journalist and transferred to reviewing. He appeared in one of his CH On Cars vids back in c2012-2013 and then joined evo after CH left to write for PH
thelostboy said:
This will be sorted quickly by the aftermarket industry (i.e. same as dealing with decats), assuming it is actually going to be bad as you say.
I remember when the 999.1 GT3 and some tale was bandied about that the car is so sensitive and finely tuned that changing the exhaust (and backpressure) would blow the car into smithereens.
I smiled when I saw my 997 system would bolt straight onto a 991...
I think you’re wrong there...they’ve introduced new MOT rules because of people removing DPF’s. If a car has a factory fitted GPF fitted removing it means your car isn’t road legal....which voids your insurance. I remember when the 999.1 GT3 and some tale was bandied about that the car is so sensitive and finely tuned that changing the exhaust (and backpressure) would blow the car into smithereens.
I smiled when I saw my 997 system would bolt straight onto a 991...
Really not worth the risk in my book as that’s an automatic six points and a few hundred quid...never mind the liability if you have an accident.
Cheib said:
I think you’re wrong there...they’ve introduced new MOT rules because of people removing DPF’s. If a car has a factory fitted GPF fitted removing it means your car isn’t road legal....which voids your insurance.
Really not worth the risk in my book as that’s an automatic six points and a few hundred quid...never mind the liability if you have an accident.
Agree a far cry form deleting 2 of the 4 cats, my car passes an MOT with 2 cats, you cannot remove the filters. So that's that.Really not worth the risk in my book as that’s an automatic six points and a few hundred quid...never mind the liability if you have an accident.
won't be long with the 20k new police that they will also target car drivers more doing spot checks.
It's game over for modding new cars imo.
Cheib said:
I think you’re wrong there...they’ve introduced new MOT rules because of people removing DPF’s. If a car has a factory fitted GPF fitted removing it means your car isn’t road legal....which voids your insurance.
Really not worth the risk in my book as that’s an automatic six points and a few hundred quid...never mind the liability if you have an accident.
+1Really not worth the risk in my book as that’s an automatic six points and a few hundred quid...never mind the liability if you have an accident.
Porsche911R said:
Cheib said:
I think you’re wrong there...they’ve introduced new MOT rules because of people removing DPF’s. If a car has a factory fitted GPF fitted removing it means your car isn’t road legal....which voids your insurance.
Really not worth the risk in my book as that’s an automatic six points and a few hundred quid...never mind the liability if you have an accident.
Agree a far cry form deleting 2 of the 4 cats, my car passes an MOT with 2 cats, you cannot remove the filters. So that's that.Really not worth the risk in my book as that’s an automatic six points and a few hundred quid...never mind the liability if you have an accident.
won't be long with the 20k new police that they will also target car drivers more doing spot checks.
It's game over for modding new cars imo.
Cheib said:
I think you’re right about spot checks....will be seen by 99.9% of the general public as a good thing too.
You have to be kidding. Spot checks for dpf removal that will be done by a miniscule % of the car owning population even if dfp removal voids your insurace (I'll take your word for that to be true)? Unless you have an obviously loud and noisy car, the chances of being stopped for something like that is imo going to be negligible. There's simply not enough chance of raising enough money on this sort of thing by plod for them to bother randomly stopping people for. There are far easier ways for them to sting people's wallets after all and it doesn't actually present a real risk to anyone (even if it did it's not entirely obvious it would be that much higher priority either....!)
isaldiri said:
You have to be kidding. Spot checks for dpf removal that will be done by a miniscule % of the car owning population even if dfp removal voids your insurace (I'll take your word for that to be true)?
Unless you have an obviously loud and noisy car, the chances of being stopped for something like that is imo going to be negligible. There's simply not enough chance of raising enough money on this sort of thing by plod for them to bother randomly stopping people for. There are far easier ways for them to sting people's wallets after all and it doesn't actually present a real risk to anyone (even if it did it's not entirely obvious it would be that much higher priority either....!)
to quote:Unless you have an obviously loud and noisy car, the chances of being stopped for something like that is imo going to be negligible. There's simply not enough chance of raising enough money on this sort of thing by plod for them to bother randomly stopping people for. There are far easier ways for them to sting people's wallets after all and it doesn't actually present a real risk to anyone (even if it did it's not entirely obvious it would be that much higher priority either....!)
It will also fail if the MOT tester finds evidence that the DPF has been tampered with.
yes it's a mindfield, but I doubt any one wants to have a car which cannot pass an MOT.
removing it is for noise, and that's also being looked at, so you would get a double wammy, stopped for noise in the 1st place, then no filter !!
Agree the chances of being pulled by Plod especially in a newish Porsche GT are virtually zero and this will be little different once police numbers are increased as they won't have the resources to commit to Trafpol specialists which are expensive.
They are more likely to target urban scrotes at meets in modded Corsas etc.
They are more likely to target urban scrotes at meets in modded Corsas etc.
All sounds good for current 981 gt4/spyder owners as keepers! Maybe worth more in the long term than the 718!
Same is happening across all cars, my wife wanted a JCW so I made sure we got one of the last new pre gpf models(June 2018) although the pre November 2017 cars are better as cut off date for EU noise regs emitted from exhausts.
Same is happening across all cars, my wife wanted a JCW so I made sure we got one of the last new pre gpf models(June 2018) although the pre November 2017 cars are better as cut off date for EU noise regs emitted from exhausts.
av185 said:
Could be.
Happening with the 458 488, 997 GTS 991 S etc.
May well happen with the 991.2 GT3 and 992 for the same reasons in time.
As already mentioned I think the potential 10% Brexit surcharge could well dictate the overall popularity of the 718 GT4/Spyder.
Agree. I think it’ll end up being a low numbers car for the UK market due to mainly economic conditions/brexit, and also slightly because of the fact it’s both better and worse in some ways than the old one, so a tricky sell to some.Happening with the 458 488, 997 GTS 991 S etc.
May well happen with the 991.2 GT3 and 992 for the same reasons in time.
As already mentioned I think the potential 10% Brexit surcharge could well dictate the overall popularity of the 718 GT4/Spyder.
isaldiri said:
Cheib said:
I think you’re right about spot checks....will be seen by 99.9% of the general public as a good thing too.
You have to be kidding. Spot checks for dpf removal that will be done by a miniscule % of the car owning population even if dfp removal voids your insurace (I'll take your word for that to be true)? Unless you have an obviously loud and noisy car, the chances of being stopped for something like that is imo going to be negligible. There's simply not enough chance of raising enough money on this sort of thing by plod for them to bother randomly stopping people for. There are far easier ways for them to sting people's wallets after all and it doesn't actually present a real risk to anyone (even if it did it's not entirely obvious it would be that much higher priority either....!)
Police force stops self entitled, selfish boy racers abusing the environment....great headlines for BIB.
I'd consider myself a car enthusiast (perhaps the boring type in your view), and will raise my hand in saying I've had the slightly louder exhaust and decat in my day, totally get the appeal.
This is 2019 and the evidence about what our choices do to the environment has reached more people than ever. Soon we will all need to wake up to that reality and stop selfishly removing GPFs and cats just to enjoy a bit more volume.
My view is of course not entirely devoid of hypocrisy as I own a 2011 model which has no GPF and spews out twice the co2 of many modern stuff. But at least I'm keeping the cats where they are.
This is 2019 and the evidence about what our choices do to the environment has reached more people than ever. Soon we will all need to wake up to that reality and stop selfishly removing GPFs and cats just to enjoy a bit more volume.
My view is of course not entirely devoid of hypocrisy as I own a 2011 model which has no GPF and spews out twice the co2 of many modern stuff. But at least I'm keeping the cats where they are.
I think you're bowing to pressure unnecessarily there.
For many Porsche GT owners, it is not their only car. As the classifieds show, many owners of these cars do a pathetic amount of miles. As a result, the environmental impact versus a rep on the road 365 days a year is small.
I can't believe people actually think there will be the resource or inclination to do 'spot checks'.
For many Porsche GT owners, it is not their only car. As the classifieds show, many owners of these cars do a pathetic amount of miles. As a result, the environmental impact versus a rep on the road 365 days a year is small.
I can't believe people actually think there will be the resource or inclination to do 'spot checks'.
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