GT4 RS breaks cover then...

[GT4RS]

ChrisW. said:

Romo said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8VsnAHPqR0


Some very nice comments on the RS, especially being a very good road car.

I agree ... there will (probabably) be a lot of disappointed prospective owners ... I heard at Donington of a 992GT3 owner who has just got a new allocation of another 992GT3 so long as he trades his existing car into his supplying dealer ... how boring !

Hearing this doesn’t shock me at all.

[dashobbit]

Mad Scientist said:

You don’t have to go like hot snot to enjoy a trackday. You can’t appreciate the potential of these cars unless you take them on track, but so what if you get overtaken by something that on paper shouldn’t.

Nobody's saying you need to be driving to the car's full potential and be the fastest thing on track, but there's a difference between driving a car around at a snail's pace (which an awful lot of Porsche owners do), and having a car you can at least get 50% of its potential from. Hell, get 30%... get something beyond 'road car pace'

I've no doubt there will be GT4 RS owners that will own the car simply because they can, but drive it to about 1/100th of its potential. IMO, that's pointless, you could own any other car that makes more noise or accelerates faster, as clearly that's all those owners can be doing.

Driving a £150k+ car to be passed by a fairly standard MX5, megane, golf, bmw etc ... you won't be able to convince me that's not frustrating when there are people who genuinely want to get more from the RS than they can the standard GT4, or Cayman S, or Cayman... or their turbo MX5.

If you're being passed by cars with a fraction of the potential, do us all a favour and give the keys to someone who can get more from it

It's only marginally better to see them out on track than find out about ones that never leave de-humidified car storage

[dashobbit]

ChrisW. said:

As to this topic, I am hearing that PCCB's are seeing massive brake pad wear and some are suggesting that steels and ST discs may be the way to go ?

To be fair this is based on only one 4000 mile car ... but it may be worth gathering information for those still not locked-in.

Regarding ST's ... RPM Technic appear to fit them to all their Manthey modified cars ... I guess they know why !!

Edited by ChrisW. on Saturday 13th August 18:45

Manthey have only replaced the PCCBs in 2 instances

1. Someone who ignored the pad wear warning and continued driving round track until... you guessed it. 'Nuff said

2. A race car at 14,000 miles

[Porsche guy]

dashobbit said:

I've no doubt there will be GT4 RS owners that will own the car simply because they can, but drive it to about 1/100th of its potential. IMO, that's pointless,

And there's nothing wrong with that, we don't all want/need to be on a track, certainly not at my age.

[Taffy66]

Porsche guy said:

And there's nothing wrong with that, we don't all want/need to be on a track, certainly not at my age.

I know a guy well who is 76 and getting a GT4 RS in Nov/Dec and will be doing many track days in it as he's done with 991RS WP which has now done 14.5K since he had it from new. I know another guy well who is 74 and one of the fastest on any track day. Had long chats with both of them at Donnington on Thursday and they have no intention whatsoever of stopping doing track days.

However I agree with you 100% in that any lucky GT4 RS buyer is free to use his car in any environment or manner in which he choses as long as they don't 'flip' it just to make a little bit of extra money.

I'm willing to bet that we are far more likely to take our memories with us into the next world rather than the money we scraped together.

[isaldiri]

dashobbit said:

Nobody's saying you need to be driving to the car's full potential and be the fastest thing on track, but there's a difference between driving a car around at a snail's pace (which an awful lot of Porsche owners do), and having a car you can at least get 50% of its potential from. Hell, get 30%... get something beyond 'road car pace'

I've no doubt there will be GT4 RS owners that will own the car simply because they can, but drive it to about 1/100th of its potential. IMO, that's pointless, you could own any other car that makes more noise or accelerates faster, as clearly that's all those owners can be doing.

Driving a £150k+ car to be passed by a fairly standard MX5, megane, golf, bmw etc ... you won't be able to convince me that's not frustrating when there are people who genuinely want to get more from the RS than they can the standard GT4, or Cayman S, or Cayman... or their turbo MX5.

If you're being passed by cars with a fraction of the potential, do us all a favour and give the keys to someone who can get more from it

It's only marginally better to see them out on track than find out about ones that never leave de-humidified car storage

So one should be required to show a certain level of driving ability first before being worthy of buying a car with a certain capability otherwise you only deserve to buy something less good?

It's possibly frustrating when there are people who genuinely want to get more from the RS from a mere standard gt4 or cayman s or cayman or turbo mx5 that slow people only deserve to own. It's also frustrating that people have either more money and/or are willing to pay the overs to get said RS I suppose. If one cared to much about genuinely wanting to get more from the RS - it's fairly simple. Pay up and get one. There isn't a list of the deserving that should get cars while the unworthy should just pick up the leftovers and money talks after all.

[dashobbit]

Porsche guy said:

And there's nothing wrong with that, we don't all want/need to be on a track, certainly not at my age.

Then why would you buy a GT4 RS, to do road car speeds, and never experience what it can actually do?

[dashobbit]

isaldiri said:

So one should be required to show a certain level of driving ability first before being worthy of buying a car with a certain capability otherwise you only deserve to buy something less good?

No… literally not what I said at all

I said there is no point anyone having a car and driving it in a way where any car would do

Nothing to do with talent

However, if you’re only capable of driving a car at 30mph then yes, I would question the sanity and logic of buying one capable of 200mph

[quote]There isn't a list of the deserving that should get cars while the unworthy should just pick up the leftovers and money talks after all.

It’s not about money. It’s about logic

If you buy a GT4 RS and dawdle round at the pace of a road car, it’s an illogical decision

You could have bought literally anything else

If you don’t know what I mean, maybe you’ve not been on track. But trust me, there are plenty of people out there who have literally no need to have a GTx car

[Romo]

Most things in life we don't need, but we want them anyway :-)

[dashobbit]

Romo said:

Most things in life we don't need, but we want them anyway :-)

Very true. And to be clear, I don’t have a militant stance on this - I’m simply saying that every time you see it, you shake your head and think, “what a waste” :-D

[Porsche guy]

Taffy66 said:

Porsche guy said:

And there's nothing wrong with that, we don't all want/need to be on a track, certainly not at my age.

I know a guy well who is 76 and getting a GT4 RS in Nov/Dec and will be doing many track days in it as he's done with 991RS WP which has now done 14.5K since he had it from new. I know another guy well who is 74 and one of the fastest on any track day. Had long chats with both of them at Donnington on Thursday and they have no intention whatsoever of stopping doing track days.

However I agree with you 100% in that any lucky GT4 RS buyer is free to use his car in any environment or manner in which he choses as long as they don't 'flip' it just to make a little bit of extra money.

I'm willing to bet that we are far more likely to take our memories with us into the next world rather than the money we scraped together.

I did all my motor sport in the 60s and 70s, Olivers mount hill climb, Sandtoft sprint, Harwood house, in a highly modified Cortina GT.

No track days then as far as I remember.

Some on here are 'agist' in my view re any GT product, and that wasn't directed at you

77 BTW

[isaldiri]

dashobbit said:

there are plenty of people out there who have literally no need to have a GTx car

Well you could also likewise say there is literally no one who actually needs a GTx car full stop. How logical it is to buy a GTx car to drive on track thinking there is any point in trying to win the day's sprint race or get pole position as compared to....someone dawdling round on track with a car with performance that may or may not be levels beyond their capability is imo rather unclear.

[Taffy66]

Porsche guy said:

I did all my motor sport in the 60s and 70s, Olivers mount hill climb, Sandtoft sprint, Harwood house, in a highly modified Cortina GT.

No track days then as far as I remember.

Some on here are 'agist' in my view re any GT product, and that wasn't directed at you

77 BTW

I am the least 'ageist' person you could hope to meet. The two examples as in my previous post are testament to that in that they are examples of exactly how I would want to spend my life in 20 years time.
You are are a genuine Porsche enthusiast and I include you in a group of people who deserve getting allocations on special Porsches as you don't buy them to 'flip'.
Did you manage to get a GT4 RS allocation, and if so many congrats.

[dashobbit]

isaldiri said:

Well you could also likewise say there is literally no one who actually needs a GTx car full stop. How logical it is to buy a GTx car to drive on track thinking there is any point in trying to win the day's sprint race or get pole position as compared to....someone dawdling round on track with a car with performance that may or may not be levels beyond their capability is imo rather unclear.

Who said anything about ‘winning’? You can’t ‘win’ on a track day. If you have a point to make, counter what is actually being said rather than a position you’ve made up!

The point is incredibly simple. If a road car can go round a track at X speed, and you’re going no faster in a supercar, then who in their right mind would spend all that money on a supercar?

[ChrisW.]

dashobbit said:

ChrisW. said:

As to this topic, I am hearing that PCCB's are seeing massive brake pad wear and some are suggesting that steels and ST discs may be the way to go ?

To be fair this is based on only one 4000 mile car ... but it may be worth gathering information for those still not locked-in.

Regarding ST's ... RPM Technic appear to fit them to all their Manthey modified cars ... I guess they know why !!

Edited by ChrisW. on Saturday 13th August 18:45

Manthey have only replaced the PCCBs in 2 instances

1. Someone who ignored the pad wear warning and continued driving round track until... you guessed it. 'Nuff said

2. A race car at 14,000 miles

I was talking about brake pad wear ... which becomes rather expensive at a set of pads per track day .... ?

[ChrisW.]

GT4RS said:

ChrisW. said:

Romo said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8VsnAHPqR0


Some very nice comments on the RS, especially being a very good road car.

I agree ... there will (probabably) be a lot of disappointed prospective owners ... I heard at Donington of a 992GT3 owner who has just got a new allocation of another 992GT3 so long as he trades his existing car into his supplying dealer ... how boring !

Hearing this doesn’t shock me at all.

But it might make unsuccessful hopefuls' a little more disappointed ?

[TDT]

Before we stray too far off topic….

[isaldiri]

dashobbit said:

The point is incredibly simple. If a road car can go round a track at X speed, and you’re going no faster in a supercar, then who in their right mind would spend all that money on a supercar?

Someone who gets a sense of enjoyment and/or satisfaction out of his ownership and usage of the car. Whether or not that person chooses to or is unable to go around a track compared to someone else in a less capable road car is completely besides the point.

You are the one saying that someone who is on track being passed by far less capable cars should 'do us all a favour and give the keys to someone who can get more from it'. I think that's a bloody condescending attitude to have personally irrespective of how good (as you clearly are) at driving.

Edited by isaldiri on Monday 15th August 00:04

[LiamH66]

isaldiri said:

Someone who gets a sense of enjoyment and/or satisfaction out of his ownership and usage of the car. Whether or not that person chooses to or is unable to go around a track compared to someone else in a less capable road car is completely besides the point.

You are the one saying that someone who is on track being passed by far less capable cars should 'do us all a favour and give the keys to someone who can get more from it'. I think that's a bloody condescending attitude to have personally irrespective of how good (as you clearly are) at driving.

Edited by isaldiri on Monday 15th August 00:04

I think I agree with you pretty much entirely @isaldiri. I had to ask the instructor at the last PEC day I attended to stop apologising for the majority of drivers not being very familiar with track driving. (Fast on the straights, but no confidence in the corners, but hey, they are just not used to it.) It's just part of being on a track open to lots of people, and we shouldn't judge on what they happen to be driving, whether we can afford it ourselves or not.

I haven't done any track days where there are a lot of "ordinary" road cars out there, and the quicker sports cars have always been pretty reasonably driven so far. I can't keep up with GT3s and GT2s in my GT4, but if I ever come across one that's enjoying themselves at a pace less than I can manage, I'll try to pass without unnerving them. If it's a GT4 RS I'll be quietly jealous while doing so. Last track outing included a GT4 Club Sport (full on version with centre locks, slicks and PDK), well-driven. Not sure anything went much faster on the day. Being good at being overtaken is all part of track etiquette, but I am very forgiving of those that are still learning. A while back, that was me, and I try not to forget it.

Liam

[Billy_Whizzzz]

dashobbit said:

Who said anything about ‘winning’? You can’t ‘win’ on a track day. If you have a point to make, counter what is actually being said rather than a position you’ve made up!

The point is incredibly simple. If a road car can go round a track at X speed, and you’re going no faster in a supercar, then who in their right mind would spend all that money on a supercar?

Umm… because buying a car is an emotive thing and not about your own ability and certainly not only about the car’s ability.