GT4 RS breaks cover then...

GT4 RS breaks cover then...

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Taffy66

5,964 posts

103 months

Thursday 11th May 2023
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I was at my OPC yesterday and I was told that the full GT4 RS Manthey kit is being launched next week. OPCs are now really pushing these Manthey kits to all their clients who regularly track their cars. Rather bizarrely they're not even going to bother phoning their 'flippers' regarding these kits lol

Digga

40,407 posts

284 months

Thursday 11th May 2023
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Taffy66 said:
I was at my OPC yesterday and I was told that the full GT4 RS Manthey kit is being launched next week. OPCs are now really pushing these Manthey kits to all their clients who regularly track their cars. Rather bizarrely they're not even going to bother phoning their 'flippers' regarding these kits lol
I am not the target market and call me a cynic, but... I think Porsche need to be very careful with the MR sub-brand that it's not diluted or cheapened.

BMW tried and achieved similar with the now ubiquitous M brand. Mercedes with AMG. Neither now mean precisely what they used to.

You can see the shift with the social media 'effluencers' being bussed into Meuspath for vlogs now.

TDT

4,952 posts

120 months

Thursday 11th May 2023
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Digga said:
Taffy66 said:
I was at my OPC yesterday and I was told that the full GT4 RS Manthey kit is being launched next week. OPCs are now really pushing these Manthey kits to all their clients who regularly track their cars. Rather bizarrely they're not even going to bother phoning their 'flippers' regarding these kits lol
I am not the target market and call me a cynic, but... I think Porsche need to be very careful with the MR sub-brand that it's not diluted or cheapened.

BMW tried and achieved similar with the now ubiquitous M brand. Mercedes with AMG. Neither now mean precisely what they used to.

You can see the shift with the social media 'effluencers' being bussed into Meuspath for vlogs now.
I called this way back… that it’s is exactly what will happen.
This is how luxury brands operate.

First ‘GT-’, then ‘-RS’, then ‘WP’, and now MR.

Classic creaming and milking of the market.

isaldiri

18,706 posts

169 months

Thursday 11th May 2023
quotequote all
Digga said:
I am not the target market and call me a cynic, but... I think Porsche need to be very careful with the MR sub-brand that it's not diluted or cheapened.

BMW tried and achieved similar with the now ubiquitous M brand. Mercedes with AMG. Neither now mean precisely what they used to.

You can see the shift with the social media 'effluencers' being bussed into Meuspath for vlogs now.
I wonder how much cause and effect there is. The instagram lot (which ahem.. does include your good self tongue out) go bats now for the MR stuff because it gives the veneer of 'credibility'. Which one cannot help but note has seemingly increased in direct proportion mainly to the (vast) cost of the aero CF bits. M and AMG might mean less for some but they make BMW and Merc an absolute heap of cash. And there is little to no letup in demand for them anyway so tbh there's little to no loss to PAG milking the MR sub-brand for all it's worth. They did so with 'GT' cars after all so.......

Digga

40,407 posts

284 months

Thursday 11th May 2023
quotequote all
isaldiri said:
Digga said:
I am not the target market and call me a cynic, but... I think Porsche need to be very careful with the MR sub-brand that it's not diluted or cheapened.

BMW tried and achieved similar with the now ubiquitous M brand. Mercedes with AMG. Neither now mean precisely what they used to.

You can see the shift with the social media 'effluencers' being bussed into Meuspath for vlogs now.
I wonder how much cause and effect there is. The instagram lot (which ahem.. does include your good self tongue out) go bats now for the MR stuff because it gives the veneer of 'credibility'. Which one cannot help but note has seemingly increased in direct proportion mainly to the (vast) cost of the aero CF bits. M and AMG might mean less for some but they make BMW and Merc an absolute heap of cash. And there is little to no letup in demand for them anyway so tbh there's little to no loss to PAG milking the MR sub-brand for all it's worth. They did so with 'GT' cars after all so.......
Being on the 'gram does not an influencer make.

It is perhaps subtle, but I'd say there's an obvious difference between, say, proper journalists and real (paying) end-users and career social meeja influencers. My take is that, in the long term, a lot of businesses may regret (or at best get no real, added value from) their decisions with regard to the latter.

RacerMike

4,225 posts

212 months

Thursday 11th May 2023
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Manthey makes more sense if you look at it from the German market though. It's very tough to modify a car in Germany (everything has to be TUV approved 'or else') and there's no way the parts offered on the Manthey kits would be series homologated. Furthermore, plenty of people won't want their 3RS to be even more track biased than it is currently. Many of us do, but I don't see how it can be diluted, or is being diluted?

TDT

4,952 posts

120 months

Thursday 11th May 2023
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The thought behind dilution - is that because Porsche have majority stake in the Brand now - they could just take the name and slap it on anything and charge extra...

For the new 992 MR kit we have seen that there parts now go beyond the real go-faster bits into Manthey door sill illuminations and puddle lights... so.

RS means a lot of different things now.

Weissach Pack used to pure performance parts - now its just a visual package.

RacerMike

4,225 posts

212 months

Thursday 11th May 2023
quotequote all
TDT said:
The thought behind dilution - is that because Porsche have majority stake in the Brand now - they could just take the name and slap it on anything and charge extra...

For the new 992 MR kit we have seen that there parts now go beyond the real go-faster bits into Manthey door sill illuminations and puddle lights... so.

RS means a lot of different things now.

Weissach Pack used to pure performance parts - now its just a visual package.
Weissach is technical parts though isn’t it? Mag wheels, Ti cage and Cfrp anti roll bars are all Weissach only no? And as for MR illuminated sills….not really that terrible is it? The sun strip has long been an MR thing and I’d argue that’s far worse (but not really cause I love it laugh ).

Feel like Porsche are very well aware of their target market which is why we have cars like the new 3RS. I honestly don’t think there are many oem’s out there brave enough to offer a car that genuinely has GT3 car levels of downforce (rather than just pretending by quoting an absolute peak they can achieve on a development car in one specific use case….cough….McLaren…cough).

TDT

4,952 posts

120 months

Thursday 11th May 2023
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RacerMike said:
TDT said:
The thought behind dilution - is that because Porsche have majority stake in the Brand now - they could just take the name and slap it on anything and charge extra...

For the new 992 MR kit we have seen that there parts now go beyond the real go-faster bits into Manthey door sill illuminations and puddle lights... so.

RS means a lot of different things now.

Weissach Pack used to pure performance parts - now its just a visual package.
Weissach is technical parts though isn’t it? Mag wheels, Ti cage and Cfrp anti roll bars are all Weissach only no? And as for MR illuminated sills….not really that terrible is it? The sun strip has long been an MR thing and I’d argue that’s far worse (but not really cause I love it laugh ).
WP in 4RS is literally a cosmetic package.
ARBs are not Carbon fibre, nor the drop links.
It does give you access to the Mags.. which you still need to pay an additional £10k + for… they are not included in WP.



I guess you could argue, that by including all the cf chassis parts it really would have been disproportionally expensive for a ‘Cayman’

For 992 3RS, it’s still mainly visual… but you do get cf arbs, drop links and rear shear panel… and the forged mags are included. How gracious of them. Lol



RacerMike said:
Feel like Porsche are very well aware of their target market which is why we have cars like the new 3RS. I honestly don’t think there are many oem’s out there brave enough to offer a car that genuinely has GT3 car levels of downforce (rather than just pretending by quoting an absolute peak they can achieve on a development car in one specific use case….cough….McLaren…cough).
On balance yes…. Very glad that Porsche even makes cars like this… they are brilliant.

Edited by TDT on Thursday 11th May 19:22

caymanRS23

196 posts

93 months

Friday 12th May 2023
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Time will tell as to whether MR become a pawn of Porsche or are allowed to operate independently

For now, the kits have been developed using the same methodology as always. The 4RS one in particular has taken quite a bit of time to get the aero right

The kits have definitely gone up in price since becoming part of tequipment, but given that includes a worldwide warranty blah blah… there are some benefits too


rkwm1

1,476 posts

103 months

Friday 12th May 2023
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Taffy66 said:
It feels very different from the 718GT4 from a driving POV. I have a Manual 718GT4 CS as well which is a truly fantastic car in its own right with possibly the best Manual change in the business. The 718GT4 also seems to have an abundance of torque from low to mid-range compared to the 4RS although my 4RS seems to be very tight still.
Over 5k revs the 4RS comes into its own. The noise the 4RS makes sends goose pimples down your spine whereas a stock GT4 sounds very quiet in comparison. As a road only car, I think the GT4 is better as It's a lot more refined in both ride quality and noise obviously. The GT4's sublime Manual gearbox gives it a layer of interaction no PDK can hope to match no matter how brilliant it is.
On balance, I'd prefer if my 4RS had the same Manual as the GT4 albeit with the same low ratios as the 4RS.
Agree the 4RS can feel a little wanting lower down the rev range, but only in auto mode. When in manual i find it pulls very well even lower down the rev range, but really takes off at 5k +.

Escy

3,958 posts

150 months

Friday 12th May 2023
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That's the thing with n/a engines making high bhp per litre. To make the power higher up you sacrifice torque lower down. Whilst they are fun they aren't great road engines.

RacerMike

4,225 posts

212 months

Friday 12th May 2023
quotequote all
TDT said:
WP in 4RS is literally a cosmetic package.
ARBs are not Carbon fibre, nor the drop links.
It does give you access to the Mags.. which you still need to pay an additional £10k + for… they are not included in WP.

I guess you could argue, that by including all the cf chassis parts it really would have been disproportionally expensive for a ‘Cayman’

For 992 3RS, it’s still mainly visual… but you do get cf arbs, drop links and rear shear panel… and the forged mags are included. How gracious of them. Lol
First appearance of the WP was the 918 though wasn't it? Which was wheels, Ti Bolts, some different brakes and the option of the 'Historic' liveries, so I don't really feel that the 4RS package is any different. Perhaps the 991.2 RS WP raised peoples expectations with the CFRP ARBs, but it was never anything close to being the MR update.

Given Porsche's history in general, I don't think personally there's a significant danger of them diluting things. It's not like we've seen them try and do an 'RS-Line' pack on the C2 like AMG and BMW M have done for example...

TDT

4,952 posts

120 months

Saturday 13th May 2023
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First non-WP in UK?






Edited by TDT on Saturday 13th May 13:51

Twinfan

10,125 posts

105 months

Saturday 13th May 2023
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Nope, there's one been here a little while and it was also at the PCGB day at Oulton Park last Saturday too.

Same colour though...

TDT

4,952 posts

120 months

Saturday 13th May 2023
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Looks like this was delivered in March… but I’ve only just seen it.
It has been been on track.. so maybe same car?

Digga

40,407 posts

284 months

Saturday 13th May 2023
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Beautiful looking machine anyway. Really like that.

Joscal

2,091 posts

201 months

Saturday 13th May 2023
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Serious looking machine in silver.

Twinfan

10,125 posts

105 months

Saturday 13th May 2023
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TDT said:
Looks like this was delivered in March… but I’ve only just seen it.
It has been been on track.. so maybe same car?
Probably then, if it came from an OPC in the North West...

TDT

4,952 posts

120 months

Saturday 13th May 2023
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Ok so there are more…