GT4 RS breaks cover then...

[TDT]

Twinfan said:

GT4P said:

The 981 and 718 are alike (bar the engine)but with engine mods on the 981 imo it has the edge over the 718 as no GPF

Maybe for sound, which is subjective, but you can't then run an OPC warranty for 15 years unlike the 718. I think the 718 4.0 is potentially a bit punchier lower down too.

Yer pays yer money and takes yer choice...

Privileged to have done both.
Modded 981… might be bit more exciting and tuneful.
But as TwinFan says… nice to be able to run warranty and full factory backing, and not worry about fuel grades.

On the stopwatch, Stage 3 981 Vs std 718 4.0 is going to be close.
More about the driver.

[caymanRS23]

Twinfan said:

You seem to be contradicting yourself a bit there given that the 718 is just a .2 version of the 981. Engine mods alone doesn't solve the 981 GT4 having the same suspension as the 718 so it'll still be "just as naff on the road" and the re-gearing options are sub-optimal (win some, lose some), plus you lose the auto-blip feature.

All GT cars are pointless on the road, but so are Turbos/GTSs/etc. They all have way more power, speed and handling than you can enjoy legally.

There is a gearbox mod for the 981 and the 981 is relatively cheap, hence the preference for it as it solves the utterly cack gearing

Suspension wise, yes, they’re all st on road

Turbo/GTS etc are road cars because of how they ride, but you’re not wrong with the comment re: power..,

… as yes, anyone driving something more powerful than a 1.4 turbo golf (or any modern day hatch with enough room for whatever family they have / stuff they want to tow etc) for their road car is not buying a car to be a “tool for the job”, but is being suckered into buying a car for status / brand / prestige or whatever. But that’s nothing new

[LamedonM]

Is 981 gt4 not the one, the power drops just before reaching 8000rpm?

Is 981 gt4 not the one with not so original engine?

I also believe there is no LED PDLS for 981 gt4

718 gt4 chassis better than 981 gt4 as shown on Nurburgring

The rear look of 718 gt4 more beautiful than 981 gt4

No PDK for 981 gt4

So why are we saying, they are not different?

[Twinfan]

caymanRS23 said:

There is a gearbox mod for the 981 and the 981 is relatively cheap, hence the preference for it as it solves the utterly cack gearing

Same gearbox in the 718 so the same rules apply although yes the cars are cheaper to buy. Factor in the engine mods too and the gap closes. I'd say the 4.0 can pull the standard gears better than the 3.8 though

LamedonM said:

So why are we saying, they are not different?

Some of us aren't Along with the engine, the PASM tuning on the 718 GT4 is substantially different to that of the 981 IMHO.

There's no universal "better" between the two generations, each has their own pros and cons. Especially when comparing the cars as they came from the factory.

[TDT]

Twinfan said:

caymanRS23 said:

There is a gearbox mod for the 981 and the 981 is relatively cheap, hence the preference for it as it solves the utterly cack gearing

Same gearbox in the 718 so the same rules apply although yes the cars are cheaper to buy. Factor in the engine mods too and the gap closes. I'd say the 4.0 can pull the standard gears better than the 3.8 though

As I’ve said before, the GT4 gearing is only a ‘issue’ on the road IMO, from a subjective pov.
I’ve yet to see it proven that it actually makes the car quicker around a circuit… and even then it’s going to be circuit specific.
Yes you change more, but is it quicker? Would love to see some data.

4RS has the combination of c500hp, 9K rpm and super short ratio PDK and short effective final drive with 20inch wheels.
It’s the combination of those that make it so rabidly quick.

[Twinfan]

TDT said:

As I’ve said before, the GT4 gearing is only a ‘issue’ on the road IMO, from a subjective pov.
I’ve yet to see it proven that it actually makes the car quicker around a circuit… and even then it’s going to be circuit specific.
Yes you change more, but is it quicker? Would love to see some data.

Totally agree T. I've never found the gearing an issue on road or track to be honest, and fewer gear changes on track could be an advantage at some circuits.

TDT said:

4RS has the combination of c500hp, 9K rpm and super short ratio PDK and short effective final drive with 20inch wheels.
It’s the combination of those that make it so rabidly quick.

Yep, the combination in the 4RS is absolutely bonkers - it's a mad car, quite a handful when on "full send" and muchos kudos to Porsche for actually putting it into production!

[caymanRS23]

TDT said:

As I’ve said before, the GT4 gearing is only a ‘issue’ on the road IMO, from a subjective pov.
I’ve yet to see it proven that it actually makes the car quicker around a circuit… and even then it’s going to be circuit specific.
Yes you change more, but is it quicker? Would love to see some data.

More focus on the power band, and thus more excitement

I said 981 because it's a fair chunk cheaper than the 718. Any objective improvement in the 718 would be marginal, and isn't worth the premium IMO

I don't think it's about circuit times or data, it's more about excitement. Nobody on here is extracting anything close to the car's capabilities. Frankly, very few gt4 /4rs drivers lap any quicker than a tuned hot hatch or FI'd MX5, but that's another story

Edited by caymanRS23 on Wednesday 12th July 11:35

[RacerMike]

Twinfan said:

TDT said:

As I’ve said before, the GT4 gearing is only a ‘issue’ on the road IMO, from a subjective pov.
I’ve yet to see it proven that it actually makes the car quicker around a circuit… and even then it’s going to be circuit specific.
Yes you change more, but is it quicker? Would love to see some data.

Totally agree T. I've never found the gearing an issue on road or track to be honest, and fewer gear changes on track could be an advantage at some circuits.

TDT said:

4RS has the combination of c500hp, 9K rpm and super short ratio PDK and short effective final drive with 20inch wheels.
It’s the combination of those that make it so rabidly quick.

Yep, the combination in the 4RS is absolutely bonkers - it's a mad car, quite a handful when on "full send" and muchos kudos to Porsche for actually putting it into production!

Plus how often does anyone ever mention the gearing on a GTS or S? It's identical....

[Twinfan]

RacerMike said:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/smilies.htm

Plus how often does anyone ever mention the gearing on a GTS or S? It's identical....

Exactly. The same manual gearbox has been in use across all Cayman and Boxster models since the 987.2...

[Escy]

TDT said:

As I’ve said before, the GT4 gearing is only a ‘issue’ on the road IMO, from a subjective pov.
I’ve yet to see it proven that it actually makes the car quicker around a circuit… and even then it’s going to be circuit specific.
Yes you change more, but is it quicker? Would love to see some data.

4RS has the combination of c500hp, 9K rpm and super short ratio PDK and short effective final drive with 20inch wheels.
It’s the combination of those that make it so rabidly quick.

The 9k rev limit negates the lower ratios. Has anyone worked out the speeds achieved at the rev limit in each gear, GT4 vs 4RS? I bet there is nothing in it.

[Twinfan]

Escy said:

The 9k rev limit negates the lower ratios. Has anyone worked out the speeds achieved at the rev limit in each gear, GT4 vs 4RS? I bet there is nothing in it.

I think I saw somewhere that the max in gear speeds are quite a bit lower in the GT4RS even with the 9k rev limit. This is why it's so manic.

EDIT: found this on Rennlist

Edited by Twinfan on Wednesday 12th July 13:46

[Escy]

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, none of the gear shifts are at the rev limit

[Twinfan]

From the poster "Some calculations comparing the ratios. The peak acceleration numbers in each gear I calculated assume zero drivetrain loss and perfect grip, neither of which are true of course, but are useful for comparison at least."

Here's the thread: https://rennlist.com/forums/718-gts-4-0-gt4-gt4rs-...

EDIT: I think the Shift RPM column is to do with the acceleration calculations, the in-gear speeds are the max at 8k or 9k revs as they seem to match those I've seen on my car and read elsewhere.

Edited by Twinfan on Wednesday 12th July 15:24

[isaldiri]

Escy said:

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, none of the gear shifts are at the rev limit

Er, that's where you shift to from the previous gear at max rpm. It's rather clearly not where one shifts gears.

And I'm not really sure how you can say the 9k limit negates lower gearing. It absolutely doesn't because the 4rs gearing being a good bit higher (ie shorter geared) means there is more force being applied on the wheel which is the bit that gets a car accelerating and that's rather irrespective of rev limit....

[TDT]

isaldiri said:

And I'm not really sure how you can say the 9k limit negates lower gearing. It absolutely doesn't because the 4rs gearing being a good bit higher (ie shorter geared) means there is more force being applied on the wheel which is the bit that gets a car accelerating and that's rather irrespective of rev limit....

Correct.

[Escy]

I'm aware of the performance advantages of the shorter gearing it's just whenever I've seen the criticism of the GT4's gearing it's been about the fact you can't really rev it to the limit without doing silly speeds.

That's why I made the point about the higher rev limit negates the benefit of the shorter gearing. After seeing the graphs that was wrong, you can only compare the PDK's and there is an appreciable speed difference between them.

My Boxster at the rev limit in 4th does the same speed as a GT4 in 3rd. I didn't appreciate just how awful the GT4 gearing was.

[bigmowley]

My personal experience for what it’s worth is that the 4RS is an absolute belter to drive compared the the 4 that I traded in against it. The what speed it does at the red line bit is a red herring. The shorter gearing allied to the torque characteristics of the RS engine make for a super responsive drive even at UK legal speeds. The pick up even at 70MPH in top gear is just on a different level to the GT4 which I found turgid by comparison. It’s sensational to row up and down through the gears even without revving the nuts off it. For me this is what makes a great car rather than a good one, it’s how it feels to drive, how it makes me feel, alive, vivacious, up for it. It suffuses a feeling throughout the car even at mundane speeds.
I do track my cars but I can totally understand people running a 4RS and not tracking it. Not for one second do I consider that a 4.0L GTS is a better car! Quieter, more boring, lifeless maybe, but better? Not a chance.

I have a feeling that the Spyder RS could be brilliant. Without the roof the cabin noise levels will be lower but with more variety and everything else should be the same.

[guyvert1]

Something to break up the stats talk : GT3 Touring Manual & GT4 RS PDK // Nürburgring

[TDT]

MR Performance Kit at Goodwood today.

[caymanRS23]

TDT said:

MR Performance Kit at Goodwood today.

If you're there, try and speak to AP. He's driving the GT4RS MR up the hill (think there's an orange one somewhere), but ask him when can we get the kit...

Apparently this will help nudge things along, as currently it's unknown as to when every dept will be able to give it the green light to get it pushed through. If AP provides 'downward pressure', allegedly this could help

The more people you can get asking him, the better