Discussion
Geneve said:
That’s interesting, I’ve had seven Porsches with pccbs, routinely changed wheels (relocating is a pain) but never had a problem, but likewise never seen the locating pins 
Therein lies the problem 
To be totally honest, locating the wheel on the guide studs can be tricky too, but at least the wheel is a good 5-6" away from the periphery of that expensive PCCB disc... and once it's located on the two guide studs, it's physically impossible to touch the disc with the wheel when location it on the hub face.
Slippydiff said:
Agreed, they are indeed essential if you have ceramic discs. To not use them is to invite needlessly chipping the disc edges, and rest assured it's very easily done.
The guide studs cost something like £10 + vat each from Porsche, so compared with the cost of a replacement ceramic disc, I would consider them to be an essential investment ... And the fact that Porsche supply them with PCCB cars tells you they consider them essential too
Didn’t supply them with mine!! Had to pay £20 for the pair - but definitely a wise investment The guide studs cost something like £10 + vat each from Porsche, so compared with the cost of a replacement ceramic disc, I would consider them to be an essential investment ... And the fact that Porsche supply them with PCCB cars tells you they consider them essential too
DJMC said:
Apart from breaking a set of ceramics which they've not done with steels afaik.
I wasn't aware that they had - but it doesn't surprise me. I personally think that ceramics are a bit of liability on track (especially) and unnecessary on the road. The reduction in unsprung weight is obviously a good thing and the lack of brake dust nice - but the premium is too high (new) and the risks too great for me personally to buy a car new or secondhand with them.There really is no risk with pccbs, any fragility is 99% heresay from people who have never had them.
The PEC cars have a pretty tough life without issues. OK some attendees might be fairly pedestrian, but the yellow 981GT4 had a lot of track miles on original ceramic rotors with little wear.
Both my kids race (my daughter at a very high level) and they’ve never harmed a set of pccbs in track use (hot laps) although they will go through a set of tyres in a day
They did a half day each in the PEC GT4 and, in their word they pushed it hard, (the instructor knew them and allowed them a lot of latitude). A lot of fun and no fade issues.
You would have to treat pccbs very badly to do any damage, and in the process a lot more components would have taken a battering.
Whether people want them is a personal choice, they are a cost option, but I’m a big advocate for the ‘on road’ benefits - and have no concerns about their durability.
The PEC cars have a pretty tough life without issues. OK some attendees might be fairly pedestrian, but the yellow 981GT4 had a lot of track miles on original ceramic rotors with little wear.
Both my kids race (my daughter at a very high level) and they’ve never harmed a set of pccbs in track use (hot laps) although they will go through a set of tyres in a day
They did a half day each in the PEC GT4 and, in their word they pushed it hard, (the instructor knew them and allowed them a lot of latitude). A lot of fun and no fade issues.
You would have to treat pccbs very badly to do any damage, and in the process a lot more components would have taken a battering.
Whether people want them is a personal choice, they are a cost option, but I’m a big advocate for the ‘on road’ benefits - and have no concerns about their durability.
Geneve said:
There really is no risk with pccbs, any fragility is 99% heresay from people who have never had them.
The PEC cars have a pretty tough life without issues. OK some attendees might be fairly pedestrian, but the yellow 981GT4 had a lot of track miles on original ceramic rotors with little wear.
Both my kids race (my daughter at a very high level) and they’ve never harmed a set of pccbs in track use (hot laps) although they will go through a set of tyres in a day
They did a half day each in the PEC GT4 and, in their word they pushed it hard, (the instructor knew them and allowed them a lot of latitude). A lot of fun and no fade issues.
You would have to treat pccbs very badly to do any damage, and in the process a lot more components would have taken a battering.
Whether people want them is a personal choice, they are a cost option, but I’m a big advocate for the ‘on road’ benefits - and have no concerns about their durability.
I'm largely quoting my PEC instructors views. As I say at the PEC you won't get up to the sort of speeds where fade would be an issue with the standard brakes. I can't say how the brakes would behave at high speeds - but Evo tested Porsche PCBs against the steel discs on both the TTRS and the A110 with 10 repeated stops from 100mph at 30 second intervals. None of the cars faded (pretty impressive) but both the TTRS and Alpine were both a bit more consistent and felt better. The PEC cars have a pretty tough life without issues. OK some attendees might be fairly pedestrian, but the yellow 981GT4 had a lot of track miles on original ceramic rotors with little wear.
Both my kids race (my daughter at a very high level) and they’ve never harmed a set of pccbs in track use (hot laps) although they will go through a set of tyres in a day
They did a half day each in the PEC GT4 and, in their word they pushed it hard, (the instructor knew them and allowed them a lot of latitude). A lot of fun and no fade issues.
You would have to treat pccbs very badly to do any damage, and in the process a lot more components would have taken a battering.
Whether people want them is a personal choice, they are a cost option, but I’m a big advocate for the ‘on road’ benefits - and have no concerns about their durability.
Geneve said:
There really is no risk with pccbs, any fragility is 99% heresay from people who have never had them.
The PEC cars have a pretty tough life without issues. OK some attendees might be fairly pedestrian, but the yellow 981GT4 had a lot of track miles on original ceramic rotors with little wear.
Both my kids race (my daughter at a very high level) and they’ve never harmed a set of pccbs in track use (hot laps) although they will go through a set of tyres in a day
They did a half day each in the PEC GT4 and, in their word they pushed it hard, (the instructor knew them and allowed them a lot of latitude). A lot of fun and no fade issues.
You would have to treat pccbs very badly to do any damage, and in the process a lot more components would have taken a battering.
Whether people want them is a personal choice, they are a cost option, but I’m a big advocate for the ‘on road’ benefits - and have no concerns about their durability.
agreed on that. did 20000m and more than 15 track days with pccb and they were still fine ( 50%worn) as per my opc. i used 3sets of brake pads.The PEC cars have a pretty tough life without issues. OK some attendees might be fairly pedestrian, but the yellow 981GT4 had a lot of track miles on original ceramic rotors with little wear.
Both my kids race (my daughter at a very high level) and they’ve never harmed a set of pccbs in track use (hot laps) although they will go through a set of tyres in a day
They did a half day each in the PEC GT4 and, in their word they pushed it hard, (the instructor knew them and allowed them a lot of latitude). A lot of fun and no fade issues.
You would have to treat pccbs very badly to do any damage, and in the process a lot more components would have taken a battering.
Whether people want them is a personal choice, they are a cost option, but I’m a big advocate for the ‘on road’ benefits - and have no concerns about their durability.
they are great discs, i highly recommand. with proper brake fluid, i had never experienced any fading.
Trgasy said:
agreed on that. did 20000m and more than 15 track days with pccb and they were still fine ( 50%worn) as per my opc. i used 3sets of brake pads.
they are great discs, i highly recommand. with proper brake fluid, i had never experienced any fading.
Yes but that means at 40000 miles you would need to spend nearly £20,000 on replacement rotors (https://www.design911.co.uk/fu/pt66_1646_-cma81-cmo2565/Porsche/Cayman-718/Replacement-for-Ceramic-Disc/ and you will have spent another £5000 or so on pads. By all means correct me if you can get lower prices - but that seems pretty astronomic to me.they are great discs, i highly recommand. with proper brake fluid, i had never experienced any fading.
Edited by bcr5784 on Sunday 23 February 17:01
bcr5784 said:
Yes but that means at 40000 miles you would need to spend nearly £20,000 on replacement rotors (https://www.design911.co.uk/fu/pt66_1646_-cma81-cmo2565/Porsche/Cayman-718/Replacement-for-Ceramic-Disc/ and you will have spent another £5000 or so on pads. By all means correct me if you can get lower prices - but that seems pretty astronomic to me.
Would be interesting to hear from someone who has tracked using steels over an extended period, but £800 a trackday on brakes alone seems like a helluva lot.Edited by bcr5784 on Sunday 23 February 17:01
bcr5784 said:
Yes but that means at 40000 miles you would need to spend nearly £20,000 on replacement rotors (https://www.design911.co.uk/fu/pt66_1646_-cma81-cmo2565/Porsche/Cayman-718/Replacement-for-Ceramic-Disc/ and you will have spent another £5000 or so on pads. By all means correct me if you can get lower prices - but that seems pretty astronomic to me.
those costs are huge, i agree. however, steel disc would not have been much cheaper. count roughly 2/3 steels for 1 pccb. that again depends on driving style. without tracking it, those pccb could have lasted 60000m for me. Edited by bcr5784 on Sunday 23 February 17:01
A friend of mine who has a 997 turbo S still runs pccb at 125000m.
front pads cost 700£ labour inc.
pccb are clearly more expensive but not that much compared to steel IMO. you also have to pay the discs upfront whereas on steel it is spread in several time.
Twinfan said:
Not an option if you want to run the extended warranty.
Lots of variables to take into account with PCCBs, and everyone will have a different opinion. There's no back and white right or wrong.
jzm has an alternative solution that is compliant to warranty...and it is much cheaper than buying new rotors. i think there is a post on that.Lots of variables to take into account with PCCBs, and everyone will have a different opinion. There's no back and white right or wrong.
Try a set of Surface Transform carbon discs.
Check them out at JZM.
My experience is that pads last at least four times as long, the whole braking system runs much cooler, and you don't need to spend 20k on replacing the PCCB's.
The ST's cost £10k and as solid discs they can be skimmed if damaged in kitty litter of by a ham fisted tyre-fitter.
I will be at Oulton at the RS day ... my PCCB's are boxed up as new !
The best thing is that the steel discs can I believe be updated to ST's ... and over the years you will save a fortune on replacing steel discs and pads.
Of course the dealers don't like them, but no longer having to pander to the dealers or warranties means that I can make my own choices on tyres / servicing ... making choices to optimise the fun for my application whilst maximising reliability and service life.
There are things often not done within the recommended service schedule which if a car is worked to it's specification, in my opinion should be. For example, in a well used car does anybody really agree with two year service intervals and only using N rated tyres ?
Check them out at JZM.
My experience is that pads last at least four times as long, the whole braking system runs much cooler, and you don't need to spend 20k on replacing the PCCB's.
The ST's cost £10k and as solid discs they can be skimmed if damaged in kitty litter of by a ham fisted tyre-fitter.
I will be at Oulton at the RS day ... my PCCB's are boxed up as new !
The best thing is that the steel discs can I believe be updated to ST's ... and over the years you will save a fortune on replacing steel discs and pads.
Of course the dealers don't like them, but no longer having to pander to the dealers or warranties means that I can make my own choices on tyres / servicing ... making choices to optimise the fun for my application whilst maximising reliability and service life.
There are things often not done within the recommended service schedule which if a car is worked to it's specification, in my opinion should be. For example, in a well used car does anybody really agree with two year service intervals and only using N rated tyres ?
Edited by ChrisW. on Sunday 23 February 21:17
ChrisW. said:
There are things often not done within the recommended service schedule which if a car is worked to it's specification, in my opinion should be. For example, in a well used car does anybody really agree with two year service intervals and only using N rated tyres ?
i read a few bits on ST discs here and on rennlist. results are promising however i quite fancy the warranty.on my ex 981 gts, i had so many issues (padm, gearbox, spoiler etc...) that i was so glad to be covered by warranty.
ChrisW. said:
For example, in a well used car does anybody really agree with two year service intervals and only using N rated tyres ?
Yes. I'm quite happy to rely on the people who actually design and build the cars. Especially when it's one of the world's most successful manufacturers.If I really thought the only GT4 option was going to cost me £800 a track day for brakes alone, I'd be thinking of alternatives. You can hire a Caterham for the day for little more - EVERYTHING bar track fee included. And there are Lotus alternatives that are only a bit more. How about a 211R for £1295?
And would it really be financially prudent to buy a PCCB equipped car at (say) 20k miles if there was a serious risk of it costing you £20k to replace the discs in your period of ownership? You probably wouldn't if you thought the PDK box was likely to fail while you owned it - which wouldn't cost you half as much. That is the reason that PCCB equipped cars don't command a premium over steel braked cars in the second-hand market.
And would it really be financially prudent to buy a PCCB equipped car at (say) 20k miles if there was a serious risk of it costing you £20k to replace the discs in your period of ownership? You probably wouldn't if you thought the PDK box was likely to fail while you owned it - which wouldn't cost you half as much. That is the reason that PCCB equipped cars don't command a premium over steel braked cars in the second-hand market.
Edited by bcr5784 on Sunday 23 February 21:24
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