Thanks for the advice - I did it!

[AshVX220]

ATM said:

I dont want to start banging on about 911's here but maybe just a little if I may. The difference when you drive a 911 is you can feel the weight at the back of the car. I dont care what is quicker or better for now just think about that weight in the back. You can be a bit more brutal with the throttle mid bend and just give it full throttle once turned and it will almost never slip or slide. It feels like that weight is on top of your outer back wheel pressing it down so it will just grip - which it kind of is. But the play off is that sometimes the car doesn't feel like it wants to turn in or rotate. You can easily adjust that with the throttle - so even though we are not supposed to be adjusting the throttle mid bend you can really feel the difference a bit of adjustment makes. Lifting off the throttle will move weight forward and give you more front end grip and its really noticeable in the 911 because all the weight is in the back. I find it harder to feel that in a mid engined car. I also like the way a 911 seems to have so much rear end grip when powering out of a bend that you can basically forget about the chance of it starting to slide as it will just dig in and grind its way out. OK 911 waffle ends.

911 waffle continuation
I know what you mean, when I moved abroad I had to sell my VX, but the mate I tracked the VX with had a 996 and so for my last track day we took that instead and you're right you could really feel that wight over the back end and it instilled confidence to accelerate harder out of the corner. But compared to the VX the added weight was really noticeable to me. I'm hoping (and from my "less than 2 weeks" with the Cayman I think) I will notice the added weight on track, but not much, especially as it's mostly in the "right" place.

[ATM]

AshVX220 said:

911 waffle continuation
I know what you mean, when I moved abroad I had to sell my VX, but the mate I tracked the VX with had a 996 and so for my last track day we took that instead and you're right you could really feel that wight over the back end and it instilled confidence to accelerate harder out of the corner. But compared to the VX the added weight was really noticeable to me. I'm hoping (and from my "less than 2 weeks" with the Cayman I think) I will notice the added weight on track, but not much, especially as it's mostly in the "right" place.

Brilliant

Yes I think you might learn more using a heavier and perhaps slower car but that depends on your skill set so dont want to sound like a know it all. I've been de-tyre-ing my cars so that I can feel more movement and at slower speeds. If a heavier car moves around more than a lighter car or if it is easier to feel that movement you might find the heavier cayman better to learn in or improve in than the vx. But again its all swings and rounds.

There is still the little 17 inch wheel set available for your cayman which has teeny tiny 205 fronts and 235 rears.

I'm going to get a picture at some point comparing the 205 fronts on the 996 with the massive 235 on the 981.

[AshVX220]

ATM said:

Brilliant

Yes I think you might learn more using a heavier and perhaps slower car but that depends on your skill set so dont want to sound like a know it all. I've been de-tyre-ing my cars so that I can feel more movement and at slower speeds. If a heavier car moves around more than a lighter car or if it is easier to feel that movement you might find the heavier cayman better to learn in or improve in than the vx. But again its all swings and rounds.

There is still the little 17 inch wheel set available for your cayman which has teeny tiny 205 fronts and 235 rears.

I'm going to get a picture at some point comparing the 205 fronts on the 996 with the massive 235 on the 981.

Yes, the tyre size on the Cayman is huge (to me at least) at 235 front and 265 rear on 18's. My VX had 175 front and 225 rear on 17's. So I think the Cayman will stick a lot more than the VX did, but the VX weighed nothing and was extremely agile. I imagine I'm going to notice the extra weight and grip when I really push on in the Cayman. I may save up a bit and see if I can get those thinner tyres for the Cayman for track days, I don't mind if they slow my cornering speed, I'll still be having fun and the tyres won't be as expensive to replace!

[ATM]

AshVX220 said:

ATM said:

Brilliant

Yes I think you might learn more using a heavier and perhaps slower car but that depends on your skill set so dont want to sound like a know it all. I've been de-tyre-ing my cars so that I can feel more movement and at slower speeds. If a heavier car moves around more than a lighter car or if it is easier to feel that movement you might find the heavier cayman better to learn in or improve in than the vx. But again its all swings and rounds.

There is still the little 17 inch wheel set available for your cayman which has teeny tiny 205 fronts and 235 rears.

I'm going to get a picture at some point comparing the 205 fronts on the 996 with the massive 235 on the 981.

Yes, the tyre size on the Cayman is huge (to me at least) at 235 front and 265 rear on 18's. My VX had 175 front and 225 rear on 17's. So I think the Cayman will stick a lot more than the VX did, but the VX weighed nothing and was extremely agile. I imagine I'm going to notice the extra weight and grip when I really push on in the Cayman. I may save up a bit and see if I can get those thinner tyres for the Cayman for track days, I don't mind if they slow my cornering speed, I'll still be having fun and the tyres won't be as expensive to replace!

I'm becoming a thinner tyre is better bore especially in winter as I did this Dec 18. If you've never aquaplaned at speed then trust me you dont want to. Second Porsche I have destroyed due to aquaplaning so I should know better.

[AshVX220]

ATM said:

I'm becoming a thinner tyre is better bore especially in winter as I did this Dec 18. If you've never aquaplaned at speed then trust me you dont want to. Second Porsche I have destroyed due to aquaplaning so I should know better.

Bloody hell, that must have been horrendous!! I aquaplaned once in the VX (mainly due to lightness), but fortunately it was in a straight line and after about 25-30ft I was back with grip again, horrible feeling though.

[Andyoz]

AshVX220 said:

Shiverman said:

Andyoz said:

ATM said:

AshVX220 said:

ATM said:

AshVX220 said:

Thanks for the advice Shiverman and ATM, I'll look into those options, it may make the car that bit more "fun" on track days etc.

I found the sport mode a bit too angry on my early 997.1 c2s. So its not a firm recommendation from me. I'm just informing you that its available if you decide to go that way.

Thanks ATM, good insight as always, I think I'll get a couple of track days under my belt first and see how she is there before I do anything to it.

Never drove mine on track. The 997 gen 1 may have been different throttle wise and obviously the bigger 3.8 may respond differently to a more aggressive throttle map. I just found that once you were used to the throttle then altering its behaviour via the sport button meant you had to almost learn how to use the throttle pedal all over again. I didn't want to do that.

I don't get it either

Why learn heel/toe with one setting and then have to adjust...I've found the stock 987 setting fine. Just push the pedal harder and faster! I thought we were buying these cars for their analogue feel.

I guess that's why we're all different. I use 'sport' all the time unless I'm poodling around and the slightly sharper response from sport (or the pedal box) makes H&T a little easier imo to blip the throttle. I also haven't had any issues recalibrating my brain/foot to the different modes. When you want to be 'on it' I'm concentrating anyway and appreciating the more twitchy and aggressive sport mode when the car lifts its skirts and just goes.

OP - I'm also not a fan of modding cars tbh partly as I run with Porsche warranty. I chose pedal box at the time as it was cheaper than having my OPC install the sport button and after I sold the car I sold the pedal box separately and recouped a chunk fo the money I'd spent on it.

I think the best way to see if the sport button is going to be for you is to drive a car that has one installed and switch it on and off to see what it does and whether this appeals to you.

In the end you've got a lovely car so maybe you don't need this feature as you seem to be massively enjoying it without.

Yeah, I agree, I am loving the car so far, it does everything I would want from a car and feels so nice to drive. I'm no driving God and don't even know how to H&T! I know the theory but don't know how to do it in practice and I'm not too keen on trying it on the public roads etc and when I'm on track I don't feel comfortable enough to try it when I'm focussing on lines etc. Maybe I'll do some training somewhere that will give the opportunity to learn it in a safe environment.

I just find the flat 6 in the Cayman a great engine to heel/toe with compared to alot of other cars (particularly modern cars with turbos and over servo'd brakes).

Just break it down into stages. Start by learning rev matching on downshifts. Practice just braking in your normal driving using the heel/toe foot position (without even heel/toeing) to get the muscle memory.

Then start the actual heel/toe practice. It'll click after a few weeks/months. If the sound of rev matching in a flat 6 doesn't you addicted then no car will . It can do so much for a cars weight balance on track.

Edited by Andyoz on Wednesday 15th July 14:08

[ATM]

AshVX220 said:

ATM said:

I'm becoming a thinner tyre is better bore especially in winter as I did this Dec 18. If you've never aquaplaned at speed then trust me you dont want to. Second Porsche I have destroyed due to aquaplaning so I should know better.

Bloody hell, that must have been horrendous!! I aquaplaned once in the VX (mainly due to lightness), but fortunately it was in a straight line and after about 25-30ft I was back with grip again, horrible feeling though.

The problem with both of my moments was the rotation. Best way to explain it is a video. A momentary loss of grip I would like to think I could deal with. But when the car rotates like this and you dont have much room to correct so you just cant get out of it unscathed. My first incident in a Boxtser back in 2004 I put down to poor tyres and perhaps poor alignment. So I thought in my 981 with better tyres and regular alignment checks I would be fine - but no. Car immediately rotated [AGAIN] and then when it grips afterwards you have to try to deal with the aftermath. The rotation takes less than a second. Imagine someone picking up your car while you are travelling at err lets say 70 and then rotating it slightly and then placing it back down again. How the F do you deal with that. I kept the car pointing straight-ish and narrowly missed contact with the central reservation but then was maybe too aggressive getting back onto the road after having had 2 wheels off the road and in the rubbish at the centre that I ended up heading for the grass basically and thats when I decided to brake. More info here -

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[ATM]

The 17 wheels are cheap. Here is a couple of sets. Obviously you need a new set of tyres as well. Unfortunately the odd ball tyre size can work out more expensive than the fatter tyre sizes so you might be better off buying some with usable tyres already fitted.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/293611151767



https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/223967446493

[AshVX220]

Excellent, thanks ATM. I reckon in those sizes I could get the same Bridgestones I had for the VX which were a good track and road tyre.

[Shiverman]

AshVX220 said:

Excellent, thanks ATM. I reckon in those sizes I could get the same Bridgestones I had for the VX which were a good track and road tyre.

I've got a set of wheels tucked in my warehouse at work. They are on winter tyres atm and unmarked from memory. PM me if interested and I'll give you the sizes and offsets and you can see if they will fit.

[ATM]

Shiverman said:

AshVX220 said:

Excellent, thanks ATM. I reckon in those sizes I could get the same Bridgestones I had for the VX which were a good track and road tyre.

I've got a set of wheels tucked in my warehouse at work. They are on winter tyres atm and unmarked from memory. PM me if interested and I'll give you the sizes and offsets and you can see if they will fit.

Which design are these?

[Shiverman]

ATM said:

Which design are these?

Fronts are 987.362.122.06 6.5Jx17H2-ET55
Rears are 987.362.126.01 8Jx17H2-ET40

[ATM]

Shiverman said:

ATM said:

Which design are these?

Fronts are 987.362.122.06 6.5Jx17H2-ET55
Rears are 987.362.126.01 8Jx17H2-ET40

OK thanks

Top tyre there is dated 2008 or 2009 - cant tell - so should really go straight in the bin but I'd hazard a guess that an older winter like this is better than a brand new fat summer in snowy or icy conditions.

[Shiverman]

ATM said:

OK thanks

Top tyre there is dated 2008 or 2009 - cant tell - so should really go straight in the bin but I'd hazard a guess that an older winter like this is better than a brand new fat summer in snowy or icy conditions.

I think 2009 if I'm reading the right code - but either way, quite old now.