Cayman S - Pirelli vs Michelin vs Goodyear
Discussion
Are people actually defending P Zeros? 
The reason companies like Porsche might get away with them on car press cars is probably where these tests are done. Keep them away from water and cold temps and they will be fine enough. Give them cold and wet conditions, especially if they are any more worn than new, and they are horrid. Cars I've driven with P Zeros include Boxster, Cayman, 911 and F-Type. In wet conditions they were horrible on all. I've also driven those 4 cars on PS4Ss and they have been great when wet. In the UK we get plenty rain. The Michelins don't wear as fast either from my experience. The Michelin is a no-brainer vs P Zero.
I've only driven a 911 on the Goodyears of the 4 cars mentioned above and they seemed very good in the wet, however I haven't driven the same model of 911 on any other tyre to be able to compare meaningfully.
The reason companies like Porsche might get away with them on car press cars is probably where these tests are done. Keep them away from water and cold temps and they will be fine enough. Give them cold and wet conditions, especially if they are any more worn than new, and they are horrid. Cars I've driven with P Zeros include Boxster, Cayman, 911 and F-Type. In wet conditions they were horrible on all. I've also driven those 4 cars on PS4Ss and they have been great when wet. In the UK we get plenty rain. The Michelins don't wear as fast either from my experience. The Michelin is a no-brainer vs P Zero.
I've only driven a 911 on the Goodyears of the 4 cars mentioned above and they seemed very good in the wet, however I haven't driven the same model of 911 on any other tyre to be able to compare meaningfully.
bcr5784 said:
I'm afraid you see the world in black and white - as this most recent test referenced above shows the differences between top tyres are not massive and no tyre has everything you might want. The world is grey - even on black circles.
drive them back to back in the rain and then in the summer you will know yourself.where is this magic test giving the P zero the win ?
Porsche911R said:
drive them back to back in the rain and then in the summer you will know yourself.
where is this magic test giving the P zero the win ?
https://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2019-EVO-Summer-Tyre-Test.htm does put them top. Actually I do rate Michelins higher - as I have frequently said. You can find other tests which will change the order. Simple fact is that the difference is nothing like as great as you make out.where is this magic test giving the P zero the win ?
bcr5784 said:
Porsche911R said:
drive them back to back in the rain and then in the summer you will know yourself.
where is this magic test giving the P zero the win ?
https://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2019-EVO-Summer-Tyre-Test.htm does put them top. Actually I do rate Michelins higher - as I have frequently said. You can find other tests which will change the order. Simple fact is that the difference is nothing like as great as you make out.where is this magic test giving the P zero the win ?
Simple fact is you don't have a ********* ****.
Porsche911R said:
FFS no PS4S in that test !! people do my head in on here as of late.
Simple fact is you don't have a ********* ****.
But the difference between the 4 and 4S is not that great on the ROAD see https://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Michelin-Pil...Simple fact is you don't have a ********* ****.
bcr5784 said:
But the difference between the 4 and 4S is not that great on the ROAD see https://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Michelin-Pil...
grasping at straws Fig. to depend on something that is useless; to make a futile attempt at something. Porsche911R said:
grasping at straws Fig. to depend on something that is useless; to make a futile attempt at something.
Let's try a bit of logic. Your argument is that (subjectively) the PS4S is in a different league to the PZero PZ4 in the wet, in particular. https://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Michelin-Pil... says there is little to choose between the PS4 and PS4S in the wet.
https://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2019-EVO-Sum... says that the PZ4 is (subjectively) BETTER than the PS4 in the wet . So that would argue that the PZ4 actually feels BETTER than the PS4 or PS4S in the wet.
Now (unlike you) am not going to argue the case one way or the other - but clearly someone who almost certainly has more experience of tyre tests than you takes a different view to you.
Now (unlike you) I'm not going to resort to personal abuse - but I do think you need to pull your head in.
bcr5784 said:
Porsche911R said:
drive them back to back in the rain and then in the summer you will know yourself.
where is this magic test giving the P zero the win ?
https://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2019-EVO-Summer-Tyre-Test.htm does put them top. Actually I do rate Michelins higher - as I have frequently said. You can find other tests which will change the order. Simple fact is that the difference is nothing like as great as you make out.where is this magic test giving the P zero the win ?
PaulD86 said:
Was that the EVO tyre test that was done in Pirellis neck of the woods during a nice hot summer period and without the obvious Michelin rival? I like EVO mag but if that's the test I think it is then I remember seeing that piece and thinking it was an utter joke and looked more like a paid ad by Pirelli...
yes that one !!In normal tests the P zero comes 25th in braking wet and dry. I doubt Porsche even use the Pz4 one as the N rated as they tend to be behind the curve.
its a daft topic now as any one who sticks up the the Pzero is deluded. They do ok in the dry as they heat up very fast, the down side is on track they then melt after 1/2 a lap !! So for ave joey in the dry it's passable only in N1 (N0 tyre is as I say unforgivable) , if it rains it's utter dog s
t and it's un-trackable.to add to that it heavy, wear rates are low and its noisy !! it's just a s
t tyre.bcr5784 said:
But the difference between the 4 and 4S is not that great on the ROAD see https://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Michelin-Pil...
That’s my understanding too after watching videos comparing Cup2/PS4S/PS4 plus exchanging quite a few emails with Michelin UK. I certainly don’t put them in the same category as PS3, Primacy etc. Alpine fit them to the A110 I believe as clearly it’s one of the best options available for 18” wheels. IIRC Ford didn’t fit them to one of the latter Fiesta STs though as they swapped over to Super Sports halfway through development allegedly.I’m a big Michelin fan - been waiting for years for the PS4 to be launched in the sizes I need as a matching set of SuperSport was never an option. Problem is getting hold of Michelin’s atm (and has been for a while according to some), so may end up having to go with PS2 again 😤
Anyone notice the Diablo on Top Gear was fitted with Pirellis by the way!
Porsche911R said:
yes that one !!
In normal tests the P zero comes 25th in braking wet and dry. I doubt Porsche even use the Pz4 one as the N rated as they tend to be behind the curve.
its a daft topic now as any one who sticks up the the Pzero is deluded. They do ok in the dry as they heat up very fast, the down side is on track they then melt after 1/2 a lap !! So for ave joey in the dry it's passable only in N1 (N0 tyre is as I say unforgivable) , if it rains it's utter dog st and it's un-trackable.
to add to that it heavy, wear rates are low and its noisy !! it's just a st tyre.
Even by your standards that is a load of tosh. In normal tests the P zero comes 25th in braking wet and dry. I doubt Porsche even use the Pz4 one as the N rated as they tend to be behind the curve.
its a daft topic now as any one who sticks up the the Pzero is deluded. They do ok in the dry as they heat up very fast, the down side is on track they then melt after 1/2 a lap !! So for ave joey in the dry it's passable only in N1 (N0 tyre is as I say unforgivable) , if it rains it's utter dog s
t and it's un-trackable.to add to that it heavy, wear rates are low and its noisy !! it's just a s
t tyre.Firstly let me dismiss the track point - irrelevant to most owners, and YOU frequently say how the Cayman mullahs its tyres with standard geo. And as is oft said on the road the difference PS4 to PS4S is not that great.
Now wet and dry braking - relative to the PS4 PZ4 (https://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2019-EVO-Summer-Tyre-Test.htm) comes FIRST in Wet handling and braking and 3rd in dry braking just behind the PS4.
Now, of course that is PS4 not PS4S. But if you consider the PZ4 a crap tyre then you must consider the PS4 a crap tyre too. Do you?
Schmed said:
Bcr, you need help man. The P-Zero is st.
Provide some instrumented/independent evidence. It's those who can't who need help. If the P-Zero was so awful it would be reflected in wet/dry lap times and stopping distances. Simply not the case - if your subjective "evidence" is significantly different it's you, not me that needs help.t.Edited by bcr5784 on Tuesday 13th October 20:47
bcr5784 said:
Schmed said:
Bcr, you need help man. The P-Zero is st.
Provide some instrumented/independent evidence. It's those who can't who need help. If the P-Zero was so awful it would be reflected in wet/dry lap times and stopping distances. Simply not the case - if your subjective "evidence" is significantly different it's you, not me that needs help.t.Edited by bcr5784 on Tuesday 13th October 20:47
Instrumented tests, magazine articles, paid for reviews, there’s a billion of them out there being continually updated, and the landscape keeps changing. You won’t find a review saying p-zeroes are better than Michelins in the UHP tests because they’re not. At least as far as 2020, and from there we can only hope.
Schmed said:
Bcr tell me, what tyres are you currently running on your A110? I’d wager Michelin. Now if you’d actually binned them and replaced with Pirelli’s (as many owners here have done exactly the reverse, i.e. binning the Pirelli’s), perhaps you have a point.
Of course I'm running PS4s - all cars come with it. There are owners who (911R?) apparently have binned Pirellis in favour of Michelins. And doubtless if there were an independent instrumented test which showed a different tyre had a significant edge - in areas which I consider important, on the A110 I might switch. But I would require the information of instrumented tests and/or the opinion of a highly respected reviewer (as opposed to some random keyboard warrier unable to make analytical judgements) to make me consider the change.
bcr5784 said:
Even by your standards that is a load of tosh.
Firstly let me dismiss the track point - irrelevant to most owners, and YOU frequently say how the Cayman mullahs its tyres with standard geo. And as is oft said on the road the difference PS4 to PS4S is not that great.
Now wet and dry braking - relative to the PS4 PZ4 (https://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2019-EVO-Summer-Tyre-Test.htm) comes FIRST in Wet handling and braking and 3rd in dry braking just behind the PS4.
Now, of course that is PS4 not PS4S. But if you consider the PZ4 a crap tyre then you must consider the PS4 a crap tyre too. Do you?
Pzero over heats on track within a lap, why is that irrelevant?Firstly let me dismiss the track point - irrelevant to most owners, and YOU frequently say how the Cayman mullahs its tyres with standard geo. And as is oft said on the road the difference PS4 to PS4S is not that great.
Now wet and dry braking - relative to the PS4 PZ4 (https://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2019-EVO-Summer-Tyre-Test.htm) comes FIRST in Wet handling and braking and 3rd in dry braking just behind the PS4.
Now, of course that is PS4 not PS4S. But if you consider the PZ4 a crap tyre then you must consider the PS4 a crap tyre too. Do you?
Many owners like to try their oem car on track.
that test was fixed, go see a none sponsor test the pzero came 25th in brake test and the crapper PS4 1st.
I don’t run PS4’s and would never buy one or can comment on it., I ran supersports at least 10 sets, Plus have ran 4 sets of PS4S the best road tyre on the market and the super sport replacement.
I might look at Goodyear super sport R next time but will prob stick to what I know.
Pz4 and PS4's are not the tyres we are talking about.
We are talking about N0 pzero and N1 pzero and PS4S.
Why are you making up stuff ? It’s odd.
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