New GTS or GT4
Discussion
Stunters said:
Maybe in your opinion.
Not in mine
To those of you who are giving Porsche911R a hard time because you hold a different opinion - please think about how it appears to others who read these threads - especially if you have never driven the GTS 4.0, or even the current or previous GT4 for any length of time.
Yes, I know I'm defending a random bloke on the internet but he does have plenty of decent advice to offer. Even if you don't agree with him. he clearly has a passion for proper cars and proper driving and I would lay odds that he can actually drive pretty darn well too.
Have a read on the 911 thread of the GT3 for under a £120k and the recent posts. You might then edit your post Not in mine
To those of you who are giving Porsche911R a hard time because you hold a different opinion - please think about how it appears to others who read these threads - especially if you have never driven the GTS 4.0, or even the current or previous GT4 for any length of time.
Yes, I know I'm defending a random bloke on the internet but he does have plenty of decent advice to offer. Even if you don't agree with him. he clearly has a passion for proper cars and proper driving and I would lay odds that he can actually drive pretty darn well too.
Goldjono said:
I also agree with 911R, I’ve driven 981 GT4s and 991 GT3s on the track and would pick an GT3 over a GT4 on the track everytime. My current fun road car is a 718 Cayman GTS 4.0 and I have 718 Spyder on order (summer tyres), it is the only car I would replace the GTS 4.0 with and If didn’t have a hankering for a VW California I would probably keep both.
The large wing on the GT4 just doesn’t appeal to me, the GTS 4.0 is the best non GT car that Porsche have produced in a long long time and anyone discounting it in favour of a 718 GT4 should at very least try it before discounting, as £11k buys lot of premium unleaded, epic road trips, track days and even a JCR or other exhaust. It won’t however compensate for a small winkie though.
That’s fine. GTS is a great road car. I chose the GT4 as it’s better for road and track IMO. I don’t like 911s so would never consider a GT3. The large wing on the GT4 just doesn’t appeal to me, the GTS 4.0 is the best non GT car that Porsche have produced in a long long time and anyone discounting it in favour of a 718 GT4 should at very least try it before discounting, as £11k buys lot of premium unleaded, epic road trips, track days and even a JCR or other exhaust. It won’t however compensate for a small winkie though.
Edited by Goldjono on Sunday 18th October 20:22
Everyone has their own tastes but then you get people criticising others for their choices.
Without any skin in this game, I’d have assumed that if you wanted a GT4, then you’d know about it. It strikes me as a similar comparison to a Turbo S vs a GT3.
They’re both undoubtedly incredible at what they do, but fundamentally different in what they’re about. One is more useable more of the time, the other far more focussed, and the king when circumstances accommodate.
I suspect that once I considered how I intended to use the car, the decision would be simple (notwithstanding budget, of course). Obviously the odd berk will choose one over the other to proclaim Nordschleife times in the pub rather than the one that’s most suitable for them, but I can’t see it being a difficult choice for 99% of prospective buyers. Equally so for a same-budget GTS4.0 vs 981GT4. They just cater for different needs, magnificently, by all accounts.
They’re both undoubtedly incredible at what they do, but fundamentally different in what they’re about. One is more useable more of the time, the other far more focussed, and the king when circumstances accommodate.
I suspect that once I considered how I intended to use the car, the decision would be simple (notwithstanding budget, of course). Obviously the odd berk will choose one over the other to proclaim Nordschleife times in the pub rather than the one that’s most suitable for them, but I can’t see it being a difficult choice for 99% of prospective buyers. Equally so for a same-budget GTS4.0 vs 981GT4. They just cater for different needs, magnificently, by all accounts.
Royal Jelly said:
Without any skin in this game, I’d have assumed that if you wanted a GT4, then you’d know about it. It strikes me as a similar comparison to a Turbo S vs a GT3.
They’re both undoubtedly incredible at what they do, but fundamentally different in what they’re about. One is more useable more of the time, the other far more focussed, and the king when circumstances accommodate.
I suspect that once I considered how I intended to use the car, the decision would be simple (notwithstanding budget, of course). Obviously the odd berk will choose one over the other to proclaim Nordschleife times in the pub rather than the one that’s most suitable for them, but I can’t see it being a difficult choice for 99% of prospective buyers. Equally so for a same-budget GTS4.0 vs 981GT4. They just cater for different needs, magnificently, by all accounts.
not as easy as that now, as no one knew the GTS would be a 4.0l and be really the GT4 without a few bits for £11k less so it's not fundamentally different as you state.They’re both undoubtedly incredible at what they do, but fundamentally different in what they’re about. One is more useable more of the time, the other far more focussed, and the king when circumstances accommodate.
I suspect that once I considered how I intended to use the car, the decision would be simple (notwithstanding budget, of course). Obviously the odd berk will choose one over the other to proclaim Nordschleife times in the pub rather than the one that’s most suitable for them, but I can’t see it being a difficult choice for 99% of prospective buyers. Equally so for a same-budget GTS4.0 vs 981GT4. They just cater for different needs, magnificently, by all accounts.
The GTS will do road better ofcourse, but will still be a great track car. GT4 will not be as easy to use on the road and I dare say be a bit duller, and only be a very slighty better track car and only for the top drivers.
IMO due to no overs on GT4's and the GTS being a better road car it's maybe pissed a few owners off who are now in the wrong car and also cannot sell at overs.
GT4 was a no brainer when the old GTS was turbo, now it's not an easy choice.
in the GT3 market there is no other option bar the Touring, a GT3 owner don't buy a turbo S.
Porsche911R said:
not as easy as that now, as no one knew the GTS would be a 4.0l and be really the GT4 without a few bits for £11k less so it's not fundamentally different as you state.
The GTS will do road better ofcourse, but will still be a great track car. GT4 will not be as easy to use on the road and I dare say be a bit duller, and only be a very slighty better track car and only for the top drivers.
IMO due to no overs on GT4's and the GTS being a better road car it's maybe pissed a few owners off who are now in the wrong car and also cannot sell at overs.
GT4 was a no brainer when the old GTS was turbo, now it's not an easy choice.
in the GT3 market there is no other option bar the Touring, a GT3 owner don't buy a turbo S.
Think where you get confused is that the GT4 is aimed for the track. It's never been marketed as a road car.The GTS will do road better ofcourse, but will still be a great track car. GT4 will not be as easy to use on the road and I dare say be a bit duller, and only be a very slighty better track car and only for the top drivers.
IMO due to no overs on GT4's and the GTS being a better road car it's maybe pissed a few owners off who are now in the wrong car and also cannot sell at overs.
GT4 was a no brainer when the old GTS was turbo, now it's not an easy choice.
in the GT3 market there is no other option bar the Touring, a GT3 owner don't buy a turbo S.
You're not seriously saying that the GTS is a better track car?
MannyLon said:
Porsche911R said:
not as easy as that now, as no one knew the GTS would be a 4.0l and be really the GT4 without a few bits for £11k less so it's not fundamentally different as you state.
The GTS will do road better ofcourse, but will still be a great track car. GT4 will not be as easy to use on the road and I dare say be a bit duller, and only be a very slighty better track car and only for the top drivers.
IMO due to no overs on GT4's and the GTS being a better road car it's maybe pissed a few owners off who are now in the wrong car and also cannot sell at overs.
GT4 was a no brainer when the old GTS was turbo, now it's not an easy choice.
in the GT3 market there is no other option bar the Touring, a GT3 owner don't buy a turbo S.
Think where you get confused is that the GT4 is aimed for the track. It's never been marketed as a road car.The GTS will do road better ofcourse, but will still be a great track car. GT4 will not be as easy to use on the road and I dare say be a bit duller, and only be a very slighty better track car and only for the top drivers.
IMO due to no overs on GT4's and the GTS being a better road car it's maybe pissed a few owners off who are now in the wrong car and also cannot sell at overs.
GT4 was a no brainer when the old GTS was turbo, now it's not an easy choice.
in the GT3 market there is no other option bar the Touring, a GT3 owner don't buy a turbo S.
You're not seriously saying that the GTS is a better track car?
Obviously the point about pissed-off owners buying a car for the wrong reasons when the GTS4.0 didn’t exist is irrelevant in the context of comparing the two cars. Not every Porsche conversation needs to be about residuals and ‘overs’.
They’re two very different Porsches.
Royal Jelly said:
Exactly. The GT4 is very different to the GTS4.0, it has suspension pillaged largely from a GT3 for one, making it a very different beast. The GTS4.0 is essentially ‘just’ a well-optioned Cayman S with more oomph. The GT4 is a very focussed car for certain circumstances; ie the track or certain road conditions. Hence my drawing of parallels with the turbo S and GT3. One is a daily road car, the other isn’t.
Obviously the point about pissed-off owners buying a car for the wrong reasons when the GTS4.0 didn’t exist is irrelevant in the context of comparing the two cars. Not every Porsche conversation needs to be about residuals and ‘overs’.
They’re two very different Porsches.
Indeed. 911R just likes to put down other peope's choices, but never the cars he currently owns Obviously the point about pissed-off owners buying a car for the wrong reasons when the GTS4.0 didn’t exist is irrelevant in the context of comparing the two cars. Not every Porsche conversation needs to be about residuals and ‘overs’.
They’re two very different Porsches.
GT4 vs GTS 4.0 is an interesting debate - to be quite honest I was not considering either until they announced the GTS 4.0. Admittedly I initially thought 'but its not a GT4' and 'if only I could get a GT4' but in truth the GT4 suits my purposes less, which is handy!
I've ordered a GTS 4.0 hopefully for delivery end of November (build starts on Friday). I've always bought the 'top of the range' model by default in the past, but on this occasion I've really thought about what is important to me specifically. I've been through a couple of high powered turbocharged DCT cars recently and they just didn't tickle me the way my old e46 M3 did (ie I miss manual, NA, high revving, accessible).
In any case, my main interests in the GTS 4.0 were:
- NA manual drivetrain (GTS and GT4)
- relatively accessible fun (ie entertaining at less than prison-sentence-speed) (GTS moreso)
- not too obvious (GTS)
- liveable with on a day-to-day basis (fun drives as well as shopping, Europe drives) (IMO GTS)
- able to have a conversation inside without shouting (looking at you F80 M3!) (logically GTS)
I'm not a driving God or hero, but have always loved cars and driving. Maybe for some the GT4 is necessary to have fun but I'm not that guy. I also like the idea of being able to enjoy it without being noticed in the way a GT4 would be (if that makes sense) - I'm buying this for me, not for anyone else!
I think the GTS 4.0 is a 'now or never' type purchase in the sense that I can't see something like this being released again, given the march towards EVs - hence it is my first new car purchase. For me the GT4 is likely to be a bit too hardcore for my requirements, and tips me back away from being able to have fun at more reasonable speeds.
I have no doubt that the GT4, in the right hands, in the right environment is ultimately more capable, but some of that capability comes at a cost that doesn't suit my needs.
I've ordered a GTS 4.0 hopefully for delivery end of November (build starts on Friday). I've always bought the 'top of the range' model by default in the past, but on this occasion I've really thought about what is important to me specifically. I've been through a couple of high powered turbocharged DCT cars recently and they just didn't tickle me the way my old e46 M3 did (ie I miss manual, NA, high revving, accessible).
In any case, my main interests in the GTS 4.0 were:
- NA manual drivetrain (GTS and GT4)
- relatively accessible fun (ie entertaining at less than prison-sentence-speed) (GTS moreso)
- not too obvious (GTS)
- liveable with on a day-to-day basis (fun drives as well as shopping, Europe drives) (IMO GTS)
- able to have a conversation inside without shouting (looking at you F80 M3!) (logically GTS)
I'm not a driving God or hero, but have always loved cars and driving. Maybe for some the GT4 is necessary to have fun but I'm not that guy. I also like the idea of being able to enjoy it without being noticed in the way a GT4 would be (if that makes sense) - I'm buying this for me, not for anyone else!
I think the GTS 4.0 is a 'now or never' type purchase in the sense that I can't see something like this being released again, given the march towards EVs - hence it is my first new car purchase. For me the GT4 is likely to be a bit too hardcore for my requirements, and tips me back away from being able to have fun at more reasonable speeds.
I have no doubt that the GT4, in the right hands, in the right environment is ultimately more capable, but some of that capability comes at a cost that doesn't suit my needs.
n12maser said:
Porsche could have called the GTS 4.0 a GT4 Touring and charge almost the same as GT4.
Agree with 911R, that the engine is the same as the GT4 is very significant this generation.
Yes I know it doesn't have the same suspension setup but the engine is the heart of a car. Total bargain!
I’m sure there are other differences. Agree with 911R, that the engine is the same as the GT4 is very significant this generation.
Yes I know it doesn't have the same suspension setup but the engine is the heart of a car. Total bargain!
How much would the suspension cost?
n12maser said:
Porsche could have called the GTS 4.0 a GT4 Touring and charge almost the same as GT4.
The new 992 GTS may follow in the footsteps of the Caysters and there won't be a Touring option for the GT3 - the GTS will be it. It makes a lot of sense as the stepping stone between the GT models and the rest of the range as it shares engine development costs across models which is going to be important as we move to electrification.n12maser said:
Porsche could have called the GTS 4.0 a GT4 Touring and charge almost the same as GT4.
Agree with 911R, that the engine is the same as the GT4 is very significant this generation.
Yes I know it doesn't have the same suspension setup but the engine is the heart of a car. Total bargain!
Agreed, the engine is a peach. The GTS4.0 is the one I’d have, but the engine doesn’t make it a GT4 - it makes it a Cayman S with a beautiful 4.0 lump. Agree with 911R, that the engine is the same as the GT4 is very significant this generation.
Yes I know it doesn't have the same suspension setup but the engine is the heart of a car. Total bargain!
thecrow said:
GT4 vs GTS 4.0 is an interesting debate - to be quite honest I was not considering either until they announced the GTS 4.0. Admittedly I initially thought 'but its not a GT4' and 'if only I could get a GT4' but in truth the GT4 suits my purposes less, which is handy!
I've ordered a GTS 4.0 hopefully for delivery end of November (build starts on Friday). I've always bought the 'top of the range' model by default in the past, but on this occasion I've really thought about what is important to me specifically. I've been through a couple of high powered turbocharged DCT cars recently and they just didn't tickle me the way my old e46 M3 did (ie I miss manual, NA, high revving, accessible).
In any case, my main interests in the GTS 4.0 were:
- NA manual drivetrain (GTS and GT4)
- relatively accessible fun (ie entertaining at less than prison-sentence-speed) (GTS moreso)
- not too obvious (GTS)
- liveable with on a day-to-day basis (fun drives as well as shopping, Europe drives) (IMO GTS)
- able to have a conversation inside without shouting (looking at you F80 M3!) (logically GTS)
I'm not a driving God or hero, but have always loved cars and driving. Maybe for some the GT4 is necessary to have fun but I'm not that guy. I also like the idea of being able to enjoy it without being noticed in the way a GT4 would be (if that makes sense) - I'm buying this for me, not for anyone else!
I think the GTS 4.0 is a 'now or never' type purchase in the sense that I can't see something like this being released again, given the march towards EVs - hence it is my first new car purchase. For me the GT4 is likely to be a bit too hardcore for my requirements, and tips me back away from being able to have fun at more reasonable speeds.
I have no doubt that the GT4, in the right hands, in the right environment is ultimately more capable, but some of that capability comes at a cost that doesn't suit my needs.
This totally echoes my sentiments. I took delivery of my CGTS at the beginning of August and I absolutely love everything about it. I could have stretched to a GT4 but for me the GTS offers everything I need and goes under the radar.I've ordered a GTS 4.0 hopefully for delivery end of November (build starts on Friday). I've always bought the 'top of the range' model by default in the past, but on this occasion I've really thought about what is important to me specifically. I've been through a couple of high powered turbocharged DCT cars recently and they just didn't tickle me the way my old e46 M3 did (ie I miss manual, NA, high revving, accessible).
In any case, my main interests in the GTS 4.0 were:
- NA manual drivetrain (GTS and GT4)
- relatively accessible fun (ie entertaining at less than prison-sentence-speed) (GTS moreso)
- not too obvious (GTS)
- liveable with on a day-to-day basis (fun drives as well as shopping, Europe drives) (IMO GTS)
- able to have a conversation inside without shouting (looking at you F80 M3!) (logically GTS)
I'm not a driving God or hero, but have always loved cars and driving. Maybe for some the GT4 is necessary to have fun but I'm not that guy. I also like the idea of being able to enjoy it without being noticed in the way a GT4 would be (if that makes sense) - I'm buying this for me, not for anyone else!
I think the GTS 4.0 is a 'now or never' type purchase in the sense that I can't see something like this being released again, given the march towards EVs - hence it is my first new car purchase. For me the GT4 is likely to be a bit too hardcore for my requirements, and tips me back away from being able to have fun at more reasonable speeds.
I have no doubt that the GT4, in the right hands, in the right environment is ultimately more capable, but some of that capability comes at a cost that doesn't suit my needs.
Porsche911R said:
not as easy as that now, as no one knew the GTS would be a 4.0l and be really the GT4 without a few bits for £11k less so it's not fundamentally different as you state.
The GTS will do road better ofcourse, but will still be a great track car. GT4 will not be as easy to use on the road and I dare say be a bit duller, and only be a very slighty better track car and only for the top drivers.
IMO due to no overs on GT4's and the GTS being a better road car it's maybe pissed a few owners off who are now in the wrong car and also cannot sell at overs.
GT4 was a no brainer when the old GTS was turbo, now it's not an easy choice.
in the GT3 market there is no other option bar the Touring, a GT3 owner don't buy a turbo S.
Imagine how things will play out off the 992 Gets gets the 4.0l engine The GTS will do road better ofcourse, but will still be a great track car. GT4 will not be as easy to use on the road and I dare say be a bit duller, and only be a very slighty better track car and only for the top drivers.
IMO due to no overs on GT4's and the GTS being a better road car it's maybe pissed a few owners off who are now in the wrong car and also cannot sell at overs.
GT4 was a no brainer when the old GTS was turbo, now it's not an easy choice.
in the GT3 market there is no other option bar the Touring, a GT3 owner don't buy a turbo S.
Goldjono said:
I’m pretty certain the 992 GTS will use a de-tuned version of the 992 turbos 3.8 rather than the 4.0 from either the GT3 or 718.
Either engine option will make it a great option as a road car I feelBigger worry is the Hard Brexit Dea and the implications of what tariffs may be applied and will they lead to cancelled orders , big price hikes etc
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