981 CGTS vs 718 CGTS 4.0 steering

[Andyoz]

Stunters said:

I do

I did over 120 miles in the GTS 4.0 in two separate test drives, and it was more than enough to tempt me out of my 981 GT4.

Out of interest, what were the main reason for making the 981 GT4 to 718 GTS jump? The GTS 4.0 seems to be selling like hotcakes (which they obviously deserve)

[James McScotty]

Stunters said:

I did over 120 miles in the GTS 4.0 in two separate test drives, and it was more than enough to tempt me out of my 981 GT4.

The 981 GT4 has the front end of a GT3, and a bespoke GT3-style rear suspension, AIUI.

Do you think the steering & handling of the new GTS 4.0 is better than the 981 GT4?

[James McScotty]

Rich.H said:

As a complete package, in my opinion, the 718 GTS 4.0 is a significant step on from the 981 GTS (see my comments on the 718 GTS thread).

Whether it is worth the cost to swap is something I will need to consider. Or whether this changes my original plan of replacing my 981 with a Carrera T......

Try and give one a go and make your own mind up?

Rich

Yes, I'll try one after lockdown, maybe also a 981 GT4, if available.

[Porsche911R]

James McScotty said:

The 981 GT4 has the front end of a GT3, and a bespoke GT3-style rear suspension, AIUI.

Do you think the steering & handling of the new GTS 4.0 is better than the 981 GT4?

so it has adjustable front LCA and nothing like 911 rear suspension which is multilink.
people saying trick sus or a GT3 front end is not the B all imo, not much great about a GT3 front end !

what I did like on the GT4 is the ESC, the GTS always has crap PSM.
it's very hard to know how far they have gone with the GTS, I def would not be tracking one over a GT4 as you cannot get the camber
but you can fit GT3 LCA arms I guess.

Is a GTS more GT4 spec or just a GTS with 4.0l engine. they fixed the engine but left the 10 year old gear box in it !
If you like PDK then imo you are in for a treat if you like manual it's sill a halfway house and just buy a GT3.

[JayK12]

Rich.H said:

I have owned a 981 Cayman GTS for over three years and covered 30k miles. It was set up with a mild “fast road” geo by Center Gravity after a few months ownership and wears Michelin PS4S now, following a set each of N0 and N1 PZero

For context, this is my first Porsche and indeed, sports car of any sort. My previous cars have mostly been powerful front or 4WD hatches.

In my time with the car, it has been driven in the Swiss Alps / Dolomites / N.Wales / NC500 etc. And I have enjoyed every mile and never really considered the steering to be an issue at all. I guess it’s what JayK12 and cossers say - I just drove the car as it was, pretty quick at times, and felt the car to be agile and direct. Feel? Felt alright to me.

So today, I had 70 miles in a 718 Boxster GTS 4.0. Thoughts? The first thing that struck me was the smaller steering wheel. Definitely prefer that. Although if i buy a 4.0, I will tick the option to have the wheel fitted straight at the factory....

Steering feel? Well, I have been reading this thread since the start and expected there to be night and day difference based on some comments. I have to say, I did not find it. Better, yes, in my view, but I didn’t suddenly regret the 30k miles in a 981. Maybe I have wooden hands (although a PEC instructor did comment once on my “good hands”....!!??)

The roads were damp today. It wasn’t my car and I was on the public roads so not exactly pushing on. Oh, and it was on PZeros in case you wanted to know

So there you go, just an opinion from a brief, recent experience

Rich

I did fit a GT4/Spyder steering wheel to my 981, as I thought the wheel was too big. then I had the stichting changed to match the gts pack already in the car. Felt so much better in my hands. Also fitted the GT4/Spyder manual short shifter. 2 really great modifications and all geniune Porsche parts. If i got another 981 it would be a daily so PDK, but i would fit the 718 Sports PDK wheel to it, you do need to replace the airbag too.

[Royal Jelly]

Porsche911R said:

so it has adjustable front LCA and nothing like 911 rear suspension which is multilink.
people saying trick sus or a GT3 front end is not the B all imo, not much great about a GT3 front end !

what I did like on the GT4 is the ESC, the GTS always has crap PSM.
it's very hard to know how far they have gone with the GTS, I def would not be tracking one over a GT4 as you cannot get the camber
but you can fit GT3 LCA arms I guess.

Is a GTS more GT4 spec or just a GTS with 4.0l engine. they fixed the engine but left the 10 year old gear box in it !
If you like PDK then imo you are in for a treat if you like manual it's sill a halfway house and just buy a GT3.

Yawn.

Have you heard yourself?

The tosh you spout on here, contrary to the world’s well-regarded motoring journalists beggars belief. Every thread you stick your nose in becomes overrun with semi-literate scrawl mimicking a drunk Tom Kristensen wannabe.

Please put a sock in it. I don’t doubt you know your onions when it comes to modifying cars for race setup, but the constant, predictable garbage you spout makes the Porsche forum a far less pleasant place.

Back to the OP - the 981 EPAS coupled with the chassis will be absolutely fine for 99% of owners. Most of those that parrot the criticism are literally sheep that heard it somewhere and wouldn’t know the difference.

The steering is superb, the grip is huge, the balance is perfect. The steering feel could be better, but don’t confuse that for the steering itself. You have to be driving like an absolute bellend on the road for it to affect your progress. Either that, or you’re unable to adapt.

[JayK12]

Porsche911R said:

Lexington59 said:

And so to summarise this thread:

981 owners and a few ex owners see nothing wrong with the steering

Everyone else acknowledges it is a problem.

No smoke without fire then I guess....

bit like the slow laps people post and ask whats wrong with this lap !, they look fast but 30 seconds off what the car can do, watch a proper driver, the steering wheels always moving as the driver explores the levels of grip and is correcting to the mm ie making the car dance on the limit.
imo you cannot do that in a 981 S and not many people want too so are very happy.

Yes you can do that in a 981, theres more to getting a car on the limit than just steering, you should know that as your a pro driver.

[TDT]

James McScotty said:

Stunters said:

I did over 120 miles in the GTS 4.0 in two separate test drives, and it was more than enough to tempt me out of my 981 GT4.

The 981 GT4 has the front end of a GT3, and a bespoke GT3-style rear suspension, AIUI.

Do you think the steering & handling of the new GTS 4.0 is better than the 981 GT4?

For 120miles to the shops & office and back I’d prefer a GTS too. I had one for 3years as my daily and loved it.
But from turn 1 on any circuit being in the GT4 is going to be a different league.

Horses for courses. Buy the correct car for your usage.

Edited by TDT on Thursday 5th November 09:27

[Porsche911R]

Royal Jelly said:

Yawn.

Have you heard yourself?

The tosh you spout on here, contrary to the world’s well-regarded motoring journalists beggars belief. Every thread you stick your nose in becomes overrun with semi-literate scrawl mimicking a drunk Tom Kristensen wannabe.

Please put a sock in it. I don’t doubt you know your onions when it comes to modifying cars for race setup, but the constant, predictable garbage you spout makes the Porsche forum a far less pleasant place.

Back to the OP - the 981 EPAS coupled with the chassis will be absolutely fine for 99% of owners. Most of those that parrot the criticism are literally sheep that heard it somewhere and wouldn’t know the difference.

The steering is superb, the grip is huge, the balance is perfect. The steering feel could be better, but don’t confuse that for the steering itself. You have to be driving like an absolute bellend on the road for it to affect your progress. Either that, or you’re unable to adapt.

just shows how very little you know to post such personal abuse !! as for "motoring journalists " they post utter tosh these days for click bate and don't own any of the cars they rave about.

I was setting up cars at 12 years old, all be it on 10th scale but full on race set up's on full geo 10th scale rigs, and have now driven over a million miles and at 17 was doing 40kmiles a year, which was great training, you have to have seat time.
I have done rally training school, race training, owned a race licence, have been tought by at least 4 real and still current race drivers, done drift school. Mirca etc etc been top 30 in the UK at 10th scale racing with name in mags etc, won many events at sim racing and always post a fastest lap at any corporate sim event be it Sim expo NEC, PEC or OPC or car events, I think I have 3 lap records for the days held on sims. ALso did the timed how fast events at Bedford and did many 30-130 events in my TTRS. My sim rig is about £10k worth and hones skills in other area's and keeps your reaction and eye in at 51 years old. Also have numerous Karting trophies from Daytona, I would say at least 5 or 6.

I owned car 008 from Lotus motorsport and tracked that for 3 years, I then built a track Exige on 36MM 2 way Ohlins and AP disks etc and tracked that for 3 years, , I then built a 987.2 tracked based 987.2 Spyder (8K spend) and tracked that for 4 years, I tracked my GT4 and set that up to my spec on month one of buying it and my GT3 is very custom with CUP race parts fitted.

inbetween all that I have owned 996 gt3' BMW all models, inc CSL, DTM, V8etc, Nobles etc etc 80+ cars to base an opinion on inc 9 Porkers.
and my main daily is a modded CS Golf. Also spent 5 years on race super bikes and I admit I am not a good rider and happy to have come out of those years alive.

My whole life I have lived just cars from 12 years old competing at national level to now paying at it.

what's your driving and Porsche history just of interest ? and what mods have you done to your 981 S ? to get to your formed opinion vs mine.

Edited by Porsche911R on Thursday 5th November 10:08

[JayK12]

Porsche911R said:

Royal Jelly said:

Yawn.

Have you heard yourself?

The tosh you spout on here, contrary to the world’s well-regarded motoring journalists beggars belief. Every thread you stick your nose in becomes overrun with semi-literate scrawl mimicking a drunk Tom Kristensen wannabe.

Please put a sock in it. I don’t doubt you know your onions when it comes to modifying cars for race setup, but the constant, predictable garbage you spout makes the Porsche forum a far less pleasant place.

Back to the OP - the 981 EPAS coupled with the chassis will be absolutely fine for 99% of owners. Most of those that parrot the criticism are literally sheep that heard it somewhere and wouldn’t know the difference.

The steering is superb, the grip is huge, the balance is perfect. The steering feel could be better, but don’t confuse that for the steering itself. You have to be driving like an absolute bellend on the road for it to affect your progress. Either that, or you’re unable to adapt.

just shows how very little you know to post such crap !! as for "motoring journalists " they post utter tosh these days for click bate and don't own any of the cars they rave about.

I was setting up cars at 12 years old, all be it on 10th scale but full on race set up's on full geo 10th scale rigs, and have now driven over a million miles and at 17 was doing 40kmiles a year, which was great training, you have to have seat time.
I have done rally training school, race training, owned a race licence, have been tought by at least 4 real and still current race drivers, done drift school. Mirca etc etc been top 30 in the UK at 10th scale racing with name in mags etc, won many events at sim racing and always post a fastest lap at any corporate sim event be it Sim expo NEC, PEC or OPC or car events, I think I have 3 lap records for the days held on sims. ALso did the timed how fast events at Bedford and did many 30-130 events in my TTRS. My sim rig is about £10k worth and hones skills in other area's and keeps your reaction and eye in at 51 years old. Also have numerous Karting trophies from Daytona, I would say at least 5 or 6.

I owned car 008 from Lotus motorsport and tracked that for 3 years, I then built a track Exige on 36MM 2 way Ohlins and AP disks etc and tracked that for 3 years, , I then built a 987.2 tracked based 987.2 Spyder (8K spend) and tracked that for 4 years, I tracked my GT4 and set that up to my spec on month one of buying it and my GT3 is very custom with CUP race parts fitted.

inbetween all that I have owned 996 gt3' BMW all models, inc CSL, DTM, V8etc, Nobles etc etc 80+ cars to base an opinion on inc 9 Porkers.
and my main daily is a modded CS Golf.

My whole life I have lived just cars from 12 years old competing at national level to now paying at it.

what's your driving and Porsche history just of interest ? and what mods have you done to your 981 S ? to get to your formed opinion vs mine.

Edited by Porsche911R on Thursday 5th November 10:06

Couldn't beat my sim time though..................come and race in our sim group, I invited you but you never replied, you'll get murder racing against fast people.

[Royal Jelly]

Porsche911R said:

just shows how very little you know to post such personal abuse !! as for "motoring journalists " they post utter tosh these days for click bate and don't own any of the cars they rave about.

I was setting up cars at 12 years old, all be it on 10th scale but full on race set up's on full geo 10th scale rigs, and have now driven over a million miles and at 17 was doing 40kmiles a year, which was great training, you have to have seat time.
I have done rally training school, race training, owned a race licence, have been tought by at least 4 real and still current race drivers, done drift school. Mirca etc etc been top 30 in the UK at 10th scale racing with name in mags etc, won many events at sim racing and always post a fastest lap at any corporate sim event be it Sim expo NEC, PEC or OPC or car events, I think I have 3 lap records for the days held on sims. ALso did the timed how fast events at Bedford and did many 30-130 events in my TTRS. My sim rig is about £10k worth and hones skills in other area's and keeps your reaction and eye in at 51 years old. Also have numerous Karting trophies from Daytona, I would say at least 5 or 6.

I owned car 008 from Lotus motorsport and tracked that for 3 years, I then built a track Exige on 36MM 2 way Ohlins and AP disks etc and tracked that for 3 years, , I then built a 987.2 tracked based 987.2 Spyder (8K spend) and tracked that for 4 years, I tracked my GT4 and set that up to my spec on month one of buying it and my GT3 is very custom with CUP race parts fitted.

inbetween all that I have owned 996 gt3' BMW all models, inc CSL, DTM, V8etc, Nobles etc etc 80+ cars to base an opinion on inc 9 Porkers.
and my main daily is a modded CS Golf. Also spent 5 years on race super bikes and I admit I am not a good rider and happy to have come out of those years alive.

My whole life I have lived just cars from 12 years old competing at national level to now paying at it.

what's your driving and Porsche history just of interest ? and what mods have you done to your 981 S ? to get to your formed opinion vs mine.

Edited by Porsche911R on Thursday 5th November 10:08

My hero.

You’ve completely missed my point, but that’s hardly surprising.

Never mind.

[Twinfan]

Porsche911R said:

[Andyoz]

Do the SIM machines run hydraulic or EPAS steering

[kevs 172]

JayK12 said:

Porsche911R said:

Royal Jelly said:

Yawn.

Have you heard yourself?

The tosh you spout on here, contrary to the world’s well-regarded motoring journalists beggars belief. Every thread you stick your nose in becomes overrun with semi-literate scrawl mimicking a drunk Tom Kristensen wannabe.

Please put a sock in it. I don’t doubt you know your onions when it comes to modifying cars for race setup, but the constant, predictable garbage you spout makes the Porsche forum a far less pleasant place.

Back to the OP - the 981 EPAS coupled with the chassis will be absolutely fine for 99% of owners. Most of those that parrot the criticism are literally sheep that heard it somewhere and wouldn’t know the difference.

The steering is superb, the grip is huge, the balance is perfect. The steering feel could be better, but don’t confuse that for the steering itself. You have to be driving like an absolute bellend on the road for it to affect your progress. Either that, or you’re unable to adapt.

just shows how very little you know to post such crap !! as for "motoring journalists " they post utter tosh these days for click bate and don't own any of the cars they rave about.

I was setting up cars at 12 years old, all be it on 10th scale but full on race set up's on full geo 10th scale rigs, and have now driven over a million miles and at 17 was doing 40kmiles a year, which was great training, you have to have seat time.
I have done rally training school, race training, owned a race licence, have been tought by at least 4 real and still current race drivers, done drift school. Mirca etc etc been top 30 in the UK at 10th scale racing with name in mags etc, won many events at sim racing and always post a fastest lap at any corporate sim event be it Sim expo NEC, PEC or OPC or car events, I think I have 3 lap records for the days held on sims. ALso did the timed how fast events at Bedford and did many 30-130 events in my TTRS. My sim rig is about £10k worth and hones skills in other area's and keeps your reaction and eye in at 51 years old. Also have numerous Karting trophies from Daytona, I would say at least 5 or 6.

I owned car 008 from Lotus motorsport and tracked that for 3 years, I then built a track Exige on 36MM 2 way Ohlins and AP disks etc and tracked that for 3 years, , I then built a 987.2 tracked based 987.2 Spyder (8K spend) and tracked that for 4 years, I tracked my GT4 and set that up to my spec on month one of buying it and my GT3 is very custom with CUP race parts fitted.

inbetween all that I have owned 996 gt3' BMW all models, inc CSL, DTM, V8etc, Nobles etc etc 80+ cars to base an opinion on inc 9 Porkers.
and my main daily is a modded CS Golf.

My whole life I have lived just cars from 12 years old competing at national level to now paying at it.

what's your driving and Porsche history just of interest ? and what mods have you done to your 981 S ? to get to your formed opinion vs mine.

Edited by Porsche911R on Thursday 5th November 10:06

Couldn't beat my sim time though..................come and race in our sim group, I invited you but you never replied, you'll get murder racing against fast people.

He’d have you in a peddle car though. Sounds like he has loads of experience setting up toy cars!

[JayK12]

Twinfan said:

Porsche911R said:

No wonder Mercedes have not resigned LH yet, they are negotiating with 911R!

[Royal Jelly]

Twinfan said:

Porsche911R said:

Shame there isn’t a cringe smiley, isn’t it?

[James McScotty]

Porsche911R said:

so it has adjustable front LCA and nothing like 911 rear suspension which is multilink.
people saying trick sus or a GT3 front end is not the B all imo, not much great about a GT3 front end !

what I did like on the GT4 is the ESC, the GTS always has crap PSM.
it's very hard to know how far they have gone with the GTS, I def would not be tracking one over a GT4 as you cannot get the camber
but you can fit GT3 LCA arms I guess.

Is a GTS more GT4 spec or just a GTS with 4.0l engine. they fixed the engine but left the 10 year old gear box in it !
If you like PDK then imo you are in for a treat if you like manual it's sill a halfway house and just buy a GT3.

It's great to have your expert input.

[Twinfan]

Royal Jelly said:

Shame there isn’t a cringe smiley, isn’t it?

Indeed. It's just what 911R does, eveything is a game of Top Trumps

[JayK12]

Twinfan said:

Royal Jelly said:

Shame there isn’t a cringe smiley, isn’t it?

Indeed. It's just what 911R does, eveything is a game of Top Trumps

Mate he got a 10k sim rig, can drive from 30 to 130mph in a straight line and has 5/6 kartin throphies, we just can't compete with this type of professional race driver.

[Royal Jelly]

JayK12 said:

Twinfan said:

Royal Jelly said:

Shame there isn’t a cringe smiley, isn’t it?

Indeed. It's just what 911R does, eveything is a game of Top Trumps

Mate he got a 10k sim rig, can drive from 30 to 130mph in a straight line and has 5/6 kartin throphies, we just can't compete with this type of professional race driver.

Don’t take the piss. He was playing with toys at 12.