981 CGTS vs 718 CGTS 4.0 steering

[Steve Rance]

All 911’s understeer - even the race cars. The trick is to adapt your driving style to work out the best way of extracting its potential. In my experience there is no road car that so closely resembles its track version than the 911 GT3. The 996 version was extremely close. The later versions share much more than basic DNA

[n12maser]

Steve, on that note...in your experience is "slow in, fast out" an oversimplification for 911 driving?

[Steve Rance]

It is really. From the the layout of the car you would think it but to be quick you need to work the car into the apex - so fast in fast out to be really on the pace.

In a mid engined car the challenge is to maximise entry speed by picking the correct braking point and entry speed. From turn in, the mid engined layout will enable it to rotate quickly and it just needs to run smoothly into apex without being unsettled so if he's got it right, the driver is basically a passenger until apex. From there, the challenge is to pick up the throttle as early as possible.

A 911 requires an entirely different technique.

[Porsche911R]

Steve Rance said:

It is really. From the the layout of the car you would think it but to be quick you need to work the car into the apex - so fast in fast out to be really on the pace.

In a mid engined car the challenge is to maximise entry speed by picking the correct braking point and entry speed. From turn in, the mid engined layout will enable it to rotate quickly and it just needs to run smoothly into apex without being unsettled so if he's got it right, the driver is basically a passenger until apex. From there, the challenge is to pick up the throttle as early as possible.

A 911 requires an entirely different technique.

both being just as hard to get the lap time imo. As you say the key is corner entry and most GT4 drivers over brake into the apex and will never get the lap times Porsche post. While on paper people say easier, in real life you don't see it in lap times from owners as getting that fast Apex speed requires the skill, you are still trailing the Gt4 and a GT4 will always out brake a 911 due to the faster Apex speed the GT4 can do.

[Steve Rance]

Whilst respecting your opinion, i have been privilaged to race in mid and rear engined cars and been lucky enough to win many races in both. From experience, the rear engined cars were far more difficult to extract performance from.

[bcr5784]

Steve Rance said:

All 911’s understeer - even the race cars. The trick is to adapt your driving style to work out the best way of extracting its potential. In my experience there is no road car that so closely resembles its track version than the 911 GT3. The 996 version was extremely close. The later versions share much more than basic DNA

Wouldn't disagree - but on "real" GT3 cars you have more engineering options to reduce understeer than you have on Cup cars.

I do, however, have to point out, pretty much all racing Caterhams on road tyres are/can be street legal and if you really want to can be driven to the circuit, raced as is and driven home again. Mine occasionally was - but I doubt hardly anyone does these days - rather a shame I think. Worth noting since it was always a proud claim of theirs that more Caterhams are raced worldwide than anything else.

Edited by bcr5784 on Friday 13th November 19:18

Edited by bcr5784 on Friday 13th November 19:21

[Steve Rance]

Sorry. I meant GT cars. Dont under estimate the Cup car. It’s a very quick thing. We stuck a bog standard 997 Cup on pole regularly in the GT cup championship. I get your point on Caterhams. I started racing in them. Built it in my garage and - as you say - drove it to Brands, raced it and drove it home again. Lovely

[CloudStuff]

JasonSteel said:

Porsche911R said:

I did a vid of the early cars here in 2012 and they had a massive dead area straight ahead !

https://youtu.be/JXlgfbgdoQ4

that looks really bad but i drove mine earlier and it's nothing like that. granted, turn in is nowhere near as quick as the current model but even turning a bit makes the car turn and doesn't go in a straight line like that.

are you sure there was nothing wrong with the car? mine has X73 which i think helps vs standard set up or PASM cars.

maybe it's just the very first cars (you say that was 2012) that do that?

I think that’s an intentional feature which is applied as a punishment for choosing that interior.

[James McScotty]

bcr5784 said:

Isn't that what I actually said?

I think you were saying you're a brilliant driver.

What I'm taking about is the physics of mid engine cars when grip runs out.

[Desert Dragon]

James McScotty said:

bcr5784 said:

Isn't that what I actually said?

I think you were saying you're a brilliant driver.

What I'm taking about is the physics of mid engine cars when grip runs out.