981 CGTS vs 718 CGTS 4.0 steering
Discussion
These were my thoughts on the steering when I drove the 718 Cayman GTS 4.0 demonstrator at Tewkesbury OPC in July. The car has now been sold and they don't currently have a demonstrator.
The car was on Pirellis. I haven't driven a 981 GTS, my reference points were the 981GT4 and the 987.1S:
"The steering is a little less sharp on initial turn-in than my GT4 with the smallest hint of float or slack, but it's the kind of thing you'd probably only notice in a direct comparison. Elsewhere, the steering is nicer than the GT4. It has marginally but significantly more feel, and is slightly lighter to use. I tend to prefer heavier steering but there is a small degree of artificiality in the GT4's steering action which is absent from this next-generation EPAS system in the GTS."
The car was on Pirellis. I haven't driven a 981 GTS, my reference points were the 981GT4 and the 987.1S:
"The steering is a little less sharp on initial turn-in than my GT4 with the smallest hint of float or slack, but it's the kind of thing you'd probably only notice in a direct comparison. Elsewhere, the steering is nicer than the GT4. It has marginally but significantly more feel, and is slightly lighter to use. I tend to prefer heavier steering but there is a small degree of artificiality in the GT4's steering action which is absent from this next-generation EPAS system in the GTS."
RichDS said:
Sure - Stockport (newly opened) but my sales contact moved over from Wilmslow
Will revert in due course
Sorry OT. Will revert in due course
I passed this on the M60 and noticed it was new. It looks a pretty good size. They’re not planning on closing the Wilmslow one are they? As that’s my new local.
Rojibo said:
Sorry OT.
I passed this on the M60 and noticed it was new. It looks a pretty good size. They’re not planning on closing the Wilmslow one are they? As that’s my new local.
Yes nice place much more spacious than wilmslow and bolton - although they’re nice too to be fair.I passed this on the M60 and noticed it was new. It looks a pretty good size. They’re not planning on closing the Wilmslow one are they? As that’s my new local.
Doubt it, far too much coin around wilmslow lol
I used to have a 987.2 with its sublime hydraulic steering.
I did drive a few 981s and hated them all because of the numb, life and feel less steering, especially in the central / midpoint. I never considered moving from 987.2 to 981 just because of the steering.
The first 718 I drove was an S and I was impressed by how much the steering had improved over the the 981, and Then tried a GTS (2.5) which was a smaller but definite improvement. It was convincing enough to order GTS4.0 although I specified PCCB for lower unsprung weight to aid feel and perhaps also importantly the PSP option which as well as reducing effort at very low speed improves feel at higher speeds. It also came on PS4S.
As a result I am completely satisfied with the steering in my GTS4.0, in terms of road feel it is very close to my 987.2, whilst giving advantages of the quicker rack and filtering of unnecessary unwanted information. There’s no doubt in my mind the that the steering of the 982 (718) is enormously improved over the 981.
I did drive a few 981s and hated them all because of the numb, life and feel less steering, especially in the central / midpoint. I never considered moving from 987.2 to 981 just because of the steering.
The first 718 I drove was an S and I was impressed by how much the steering had improved over the the 981, and Then tried a GTS (2.5) which was a smaller but definite improvement. It was convincing enough to order GTS4.0 although I specified PCCB for lower unsprung weight to aid feel and perhaps also importantly the PSP option which as well as reducing effort at very low speed improves feel at higher speeds. It also came on PS4S.
As a result I am completely satisfied with the steering in my GTS4.0, in terms of road feel it is very close to my 987.2, whilst giving advantages of the quicker rack and filtering of unnecessary unwanted information. There’s no doubt in my mind the that the steering of the 982 (718) is enormously improved over the 981.
My previous 981 CGTS was on Pireli tires, also enhanced the horible Ackerman effect.
The steering;
1 Very slow initial steering response, like in a slow motion.Really nothing happend, the Cayman is a Go-Cart, so it has to behave like one; steering action=steering reaction, but it was far from it.On initial steering input it felt like a super tanker.
2 The self-centering force to strong, on high turning speeds I always had the feeling to fight with the steering input
My soulution to this annoying behavior; I sold the car.
Waitiing now for the GT4 PDK, November 30th it will be produced
The steering;
1 Very slow initial steering response, like in a slow motion.Really nothing happend, the Cayman is a Go-Cart, so it has to behave like one; steering action=steering reaction, but it was far from it.On initial steering input it felt like a super tanker.
2 The self-centering force to strong, on high turning speeds I always had the feeling to fight with the steering input
My soulution to this annoying behavior; I sold the car.
Waitiing now for the GT4 PDK, November 30th it will be produced
Romo said:
My previous 981 CGTS was on Pireli tires, also enhanced the horible Ackerman effect.
The steering;
1 Very slow initial steering response, like in a slow motion.Really nothing happend, the Cayman is a Go-Cart, so it has to behave like one; steering action=steering reaction, but it was far from it.On initial steering input it felt like a super tanker.
2 The self-centering force to strong, on high turning speeds I always had the feeling to fight with the steering input
My soulution to this annoying behavior; I sold the car.
Waitiing now for the GT4 PDK, November 30th it will be produced
I take it the 718 GT4 has better steering? Have you tried other variants?The steering;
1 Very slow initial steering response, like in a slow motion.Really nothing happend, the Cayman is a Go-Cart, so it has to behave like one; steering action=steering reaction, but it was far from it.On initial steering input it felt like a super tanker.
2 The self-centering force to strong, on high turning speeds I always had the feeling to fight with the steering input
My soulution to this annoying behavior; I sold the car.
Waitiing now for the GT4 PDK, November 30th it will be produced
^ Yes, even the 981 GT4 has far better steering compared to the 981 C GTS
When I bought the 981 CGTS 2014, there was no GT4, it wasn't even known there would be one.
But later I drove the 981 GT4, it was so much better on steering IMHO, that I knew instantly I wanted one, but only PDK, that PDK never came, until the 718 GT4.
I also have test-driven all 718 variants, on steering much better, but the 4 cilinder engines are a let down to me, not only on sound, but also on mechanical characteristics;
- Raw running behavior
- Droning
The S is even worse on that matter.
So these cars left me stone cold
For the 718 it was a little surprising the GT4 came before the GTS 4.0, but I will not take the risk again not to go for the best and sportiest set up. I don't know if steering difference between the GT4 4.0 and GTS 4.0 are as big as the 981 series. There are differences in suspension set up, and maybe, just maybe this gives a different (better?) steering feel for the GT4.
Given my 981 experience and the now PDK GT4 availability I'm not taking any risks;
I`ve ordered the 718 GT4 PDK, Gentian, PCCB, LWB, and some other minor stuf on it. ETA january 2021
When I bought the 981 CGTS 2014, there was no GT4, it wasn't even known there would be one.
But later I drove the 981 GT4, it was so much better on steering IMHO, that I knew instantly I wanted one, but only PDK, that PDK never came, until the 718 GT4.
I also have test-driven all 718 variants, on steering much better, but the 4 cilinder engines are a let down to me, not only on sound, but also on mechanical characteristics;
- Raw running behavior
- Droning
The S is even worse on that matter.
So these cars left me stone cold
For the 718 it was a little surprising the GT4 came before the GTS 4.0, but I will not take the risk again not to go for the best and sportiest set up. I don't know if steering difference between the GT4 4.0 and GTS 4.0 are as big as the 981 series. There are differences in suspension set up, and maybe, just maybe this gives a different (better?) steering feel for the GT4.
Given my 981 experience and the now PDK GT4 availability I'm not taking any risks;
I`ve ordered the 718 GT4 PDK, Gentian, PCCB, LWB, and some other minor stuf on it. ETA january 2021
Edited by Romo on Friday 30th October 15:45
Edited by Romo on Friday 30th October 15:47
Edited by Romo on Friday 30th October 15:50
That sounds amazing, I'm slightly green.
Come to think of it, I've had 718 Boxsters as loan cars, but I was so put off by the engine noise that I don't remember anything much about the steering.
I don't find the 981 steering quite so terrible, but it's also obvious that there is room for improvement with the feel, hence my question.
Come to think of it, I've had 718 Boxsters as loan cars, but I was so put off by the engine noise that I don't remember anything much about the steering.
I don't find the 981 steering quite so terrible, but it's also obvious that there is room for improvement with the feel, hence my question.
^ At that time, 2014, I still had my BMW E82 1M.
The steering compared; 1M vs 981 C GTS
1 HPS vs EPS; BMW better
2 Initial steering input reaction; BMW miles ahead
3 Self Centering force; BMW fare more less, far more better
The BMW steering was on every issue the better one.
Than I sold the 1M, bought the 1st generation F87 M2
Also EPS for the first time, it steered better vs the GTS, very vast steering rack, just the way I love it.
For 3 months now I'm owning a M2CS Hockenheim Silver, CCB, and all other goodies, it steers just wonderful, even better than the OGM2
Just a few months from now the M2CS will be accompanied by the 718 GT4.
I do not have other car wishes for now :-)
The steering compared; 1M vs 981 C GTS
1 HPS vs EPS; BMW better
2 Initial steering input reaction; BMW miles ahead
3 Self Centering force; BMW fare more less, far more better
The BMW steering was on every issue the better one.
Than I sold the 1M, bought the 1st generation F87 M2
Also EPS for the first time, it steered better vs the GTS, very vast steering rack, just the way I love it.
For 3 months now I'm owning a M2CS Hockenheim Silver, CCB, and all other goodies, it steers just wonderful, even better than the OGM2
Just a few months from now the M2CS will be accompanied by the 718 GT4.
I do not have other car wishes for now :-)
I must confess that I've never noticed the very strong self-centering forces which you encountered, and as for turning-in "like a supertanker", I have the opposite experience. The 981 is very eager to turn-in.
Here's Harris on the turn-in characteristics of a 981 S:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT2wkhg6LTQ&t=...
The only criticism of the steering I have is a relative lack of feel.
Here's Harris on the turn-in characteristics of a 981 S:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT2wkhg6LTQ&t=...
The only criticism of the steering I have is a relative lack of feel.
The 981 C GTS had a turn in like a lazy Sunday morning :-)
Not sharp like a razor at all.
The BMW 1M however, that car turned in, like no other.
Harris video 2013, but later on every respectable car journalist criticized the steering, well I criticized it in 2014 myself.
Not sharp like a razor at all.
The BMW 1M however, that car turned in, like no other.
Harris video 2013, but later on every respectable car journalist criticized the steering, well I criticized it in 2014 myself.
Edited by Romo on Saturday 31st October 15:46
Edited by Romo on Saturday 31st October 15:47
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