981 CGTS vs 718 CGTS 4.0 steering

[Slippydiff]

Tripe Bypass said:

But that electric pump in the Cup cars is from an old Astra. There's no CANBUS, no sensors at all, just power and the ignition cable running to it.

This is correct, there were no sensors at all with the original 996 GT3 rack driven by the 997 Cup/Astra electric pump in my old Mk 1 996 GT3, likewise in the 977 Cup. I suspect it may have been a fault peculiar to my converted car, irrespective it didn't detracted from the drive, nor indeed did it occur at critical points/speeds whilst I was driving, so perhaps the pump occasionally drew too much current and/or the electrical system struggled at lower engine speeds.
It certainly made the steering consistently heavier (which wasn't a bad thing) almost as if it was able to provide less assistance than the OE hydraulic engine driven pump, maybe that's why it was specified in the first place ?

Edited by Slippydiff on Monday 2nd November 23:13

[Porsche911R]

It's very basic and a motorsport item you can fit to any 996.997 etc to gain about 8bhp and reduce unwanted engine drag and heat in the rear mouted pump.

The electric servo pump is just to motivate power steering fluid.

ALso removes weight from the rear and put's it back in the front.

modding your 996,Cayman, 997 with these is common .

I cannot see a engine driven pump giving more feel over the electric servo pump.

It's was on my planned 997.1 GT3 mod list, Porsche have used these for ever in the Cup series.

Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 3rd November 09:41

[JayK12]

James McScotty said:

I'm currently running a 2014 981 CGTS, manual. I'm considering switching to the new 4.0.

I'm interested primarily in any steering feedback changes between the two cars. Have Porsche significantly improved the steering "feel"? Any input from people who've driven both would be much appreciated.

I had a 981 GTS for 3 years, it was on X73 and Pirelli's with no GEO changes. I had a 718S for a couple of weeks and the steering did have more feel to it, felt less numb/vague. But in real world terms for me, the 981 steering didn't detract from the car, I was really able to hussle that thing and loved driving it on the twisties, felt in the dry i could really lean on the front end. The only thing was in the damp/wet you did want more from the steering but that was just a confidence thing, PS4S would of been better. On track the 981 was fine, didn't have a problem with the steering. Not sure why the resident race drivers get hung up on it so much, I'd have another for sure.

[Spyder75]

JayK12 said:

James McScotty said:

I'm currently running a 2014 981 CGTS, manual. I'm considering switching to the new 4.0.

I'm interested primarily in any steering feedback changes between the two cars. Have Porsche significantly improved the steering "feel"? Any input from people who've driven both would be much appreciated.

I had a 981 GTS for 3 years, it was on X73 and Pirelli's with no GEO changes. I had a 718S for a couple of weeks and the steering did have more feel to it, felt less numb/vague. But in real world terms for me, the 981 steering didn't detract from the car, I was really able to hussle that thing and loved driving it on the twisties, felt in the dry i could really lean on the front end. The only thing was in the damp/wet you did want more from the steering but that was just a confidence thing, PS4S would of been better. On track the 981 was fine, didn't have a problem with the steering. Not sure why the resident race drivers get hung up on it so much, I'd have another for sure.

Very good assessment and similar to my feelings. Cold wet road it gave little back so it felt like I had to tip toe into corners. After I got used to it and had tracked it I knew the grip was there so it was less of an issue. Still can’t believe Porsche let them out of the house like this though.

[Lexington59]

Coming from a 987 I could never get on with the steering in the 981. It is definitely a lot better in the 718.

If you've only had a fairly limited exposure than maybe you could live with it. I couldn't.

Surprises me when people say it's marginal. Personally I think the difference is pretty noticeable.

[Porsche911R]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Again it's the difference in getting the last 5% to 10% from the car, most don't drive at 70% so don't care about the last 10%.
I have been hooning abut at the limit of grip today cross county for 70 odd miles, you need confidence in the car to do this and the only way is via the steering wheel. Makes it quite exciting in this weather.

Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 3rd November 12:26

[JayK12]

Spyder75 said:

JayK12 said:

James McScotty said:

I'm currently running a 2014 981 CGTS, manual. I'm considering switching to the new 4.0.

I'm interested primarily in any steering feedback changes between the two cars. Have Porsche significantly improved the steering "feel"? Any input from people who've driven both would be much appreciated.

I had a 981 GTS for 3 years, it was on X73 and Pirelli's with no GEO changes. I had a 718S for a couple of weeks and the steering did have more feel to it, felt less numb/vague. But in real world terms for me, the 981 steering didn't detract from the car, I was really able to hussle that thing and loved driving it on the twisties, felt in the dry i could really lean on the front end. The only thing was in the damp/wet you did want more from the steering but that was just a confidence thing, PS4S would of been better. On track the 981 was fine, didn't have a problem with the steering. Not sure why the resident race drivers get hung up on it so much, I'd have another for sure.

Very good assessment and similar to my feelings. Cold wet road it gave little back so it felt like I had to tip toe into corners. After I got used to it and had tracked it I knew the grip was there so it was less of an issue. Still can’t believe Porsche let them out of the house like this though.

I jumped in, took it for a test drive which you don't get much out of it, puchsed it, then took it to the NC500 with friends, they were in much more capable machinary, and all excellent drivers, ex rally driver in there etc. We had dry weather for a week of Scottish roads and they were empty, I learn't quick that the 981 chassis, engine, gearbox were sublime, the steering wasn't much of a problem once i really lent on the front, the grip was mega. In the end the steering didn't bother me at all for the rest of my ownership enough to sell it when i test drove a GT4, or and Exige, it was still the road car i wanted. If i was going back to the NC500, give me a manual 981 GTS again any day of the week. Only sold it to try a Radical SR3.

[JayK12]

Porsche911R said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Again it's the difference in getting the last 5% to 10% from the car, most don't drive at 70% so don't care about the last 10%.
I have been hooning abut at the limit of grip today cross county for 70 odd miles, you need confidence in the car to do this and the only way is via the steering wheel. Makes it quite exciting in this weather.

Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 3rd November 12:26

Im on the edge of grip in my heavy fat 300e hybrid which has crap weight distruction, stty brakes for the weight and performance, stty dead tyres everyday, you wanna try the steering on this if you think the 981 is bad, but i can still extract all its capablity.

[bcr5784]

Firstly let me agree that the 718s steering is noticeable improvement over the 981s. But lets not get ahead of ourselves - is it as good as an Evora, let an Elise or Caterham - not by some margin. And something like a Formula Ford is step ahead again.The fact that the 718 specs admit to a "steering pulse generator" suggests that greater impression of "feel" may at least in part be akin the artificial sounds which are supposed to enhance engine noise. So talking about getting the last 5 or 10% on the road is rather fanciful. In any case if you are driving at 90 or 95% (of track speeds) on the road you are heading for a BIG accident.

[Milnsey]

Might be placebo effect , but I have noticed improved steering feel on my 981 CGTS since swapping to PS4Ss from Goodyears

[Nyloc20]

Lexington59 said:

Coming from a 987 I could never get on with the steering in the 981. It is definitely a lot better in the 718.

If you've only had a fairly limited exposure than maybe you could live with it. I couldn't.

Surprises me when people say it's marginal. Personally I think the difference is pretty noticeable.

Can’t comment on the 718 but the steering on my 981 is definitely inferior to my previous 987. It maybe isn’t a big deal to some people but steering and handling are the most important driving requirements for me. I’ll be moving it on in the near future.

[Rich.H]

I have owned a 981 Cayman GTS for over three years and covered 30k miles. It was set up with a mild “fast road” geo by Center Gravity after a few months ownership and wears Michelin PS4S now, following a set each of N0 and N1 PZero

For context, this is my first Porsche and indeed, sports car of any sort. My previous cars have mostly been powerful front or 4WD hatches.

In my time with the car, it has been driven in the Swiss Alps / Dolomites / N.Wales / NC500 etc. And I have enjoyed every mile and never really considered the steering to be an issue at all. I guess it’s what JayK12 and cossers say - I just drove the car as it was, pretty quick at times, and felt the car to be agile and direct. Feel? Felt alright to me.

So today, I had 70 miles in a 718 Boxster GTS 4.0. Thoughts? The first thing that struck me was the smaller steering wheel. Definitely prefer that. Although if i buy a 4.0, I will tick the option to have the wheel fitted straight at the factory....

Steering feel? Well, I have been reading this thread since the start and expected there to be night and day difference based on some comments. I have to say, I did not find it. Better, yes, in my view, but I didn’t suddenly regret the 30k miles in a 981. Maybe I have wooden hands (although a PEC instructor did comment once on my “good hands”....!!??)

The roads were damp today. It wasn’t my car and I was on the public roads so not exactly pushing on. Oh, and it was on PZeros in case you wanted to know

So there you go, just an opinion from a brief, recent experience

Rich

[Lexington59]

And so to summarise this thread:

981 owners and a few ex owners see nothing wrong with the steering

Everyone else acknowledges it is a problem.

No smoke without fire then I guess....

[Porsche911R]

Lexington59 said:

And so to summarise this thread:

981 owners and a few ex owners see nothing wrong with the steering

Everyone else acknowledges it is a problem.

No smoke without fire then I guess....

because a lot of people have come from Worse cars to 981's or worse chassie's , I guess but people who have come from Lotus or 987 think it;s crap.
the 981 chassis is a great thing and they do drive mega even with no feel. it's a great mid engine platform vs a Merc barge.

I test drive 981's all the time, as you get them as loan cars all the time, it's always stopped me from buying one.
I did buy a 981 Spyder to get a new GT3 and while I drove it pretty fast the steering feel was poor, but it don't stop you from driving it fast and I did treat it as a "lifestyle car" so was not bothered, many people own these as life style cars and are not bothered, does not mean it's good, just means the owners don't care that much you can see that when most of these cars at 6 years old still have cracked org P-zero tyres on them.

I drove the 991.1 GT3 cannot say I am that impressed with the steering on the 991.1 GT3's but no one moans.

I thought I could get over it so bought a 991.1 GTS and fitted PS4S, I kept the car a 2 months as it was just crap "for me" vs the other cars I owned.
when you spend £90k on a GTS you expect it to be better than a £20k Golf, it wasn't so I still have the golf now at 40k miles.

If 981 and 991.1 owners are happy with it that's great news imo, for me and it seems 60% people it's not good enough and is the ruin of the cars.

bit like the slow laps people post and ask whats wrong with this lap !, they look fast but 30 seconds off what the car can do, watch a proper driver, the steering wheels always moving as the driver explores the levels of grip and is correcting to the mm ie making the car dance on the limit.
imo you cannot do that in a 981 S and not many people want too so are very happy.

[Porsche911R]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

very hard to gain anything from it to be fair.

A test drive in new cars are always fun and I doubt some ones or you even will want to drive the snot off it at the limit in the wet lol

also no one can drive any ltd car like GT4, GT3, spyders etc so you have to buy blind.

I test drove the 991.1 GTS for about 5 miles and thought it would be ok, it's wasn't.

[Porsche911R]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

You can drive the car over it's limit of grip, and in this weather you don't even have to be going fast.
I am sure we all drop the clutch a little hard with a few extra revs out of T junction and oppersite lock up the road, it's called fun.

I said to you don't post slow laps of cars, I understand it, you are having issue with it for some reason, but you keep posting links to slow laps !

[Porsche911R]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I am not saying that, I would be a paid racing driving if I could drive that well.

you must power your car out of bends for a laugh PSM off no ? or play with the limits of grip available off round abouts etc.

I have some basic skills which if I feel good with the car I do ok with it, but it's not Pro levels.

[James McScotty]

Rich.H said:

Steering feel? Well, I have been reading this thread since the start and expected there to be night and day difference based on some comments. I have to say, I did not find it. Better, yes, in my view, but I didn’t suddenly regret the 30k miles in a 981. Maybe I have wooden hands (although a PEC instructor did comment once on my “good hands”....!!??)

The roads were damp today. It wasn’t my car and I was on the public roads so not exactly pushing on. Oh, and it was on PZeros in case you wanted to know

So there you go, just an opinion from a brief, recent experience

Rich

Thanks. I've owned my 981 CGTS for nearly three years. The steering isn't terrible, I was just wondering/hoping that the 718 steering feel might be better, but if there's not much in it, I'll probably not bother "upgrading".

FWIW, I previously owned a 997 C2S, and the steering feel wasn't too great in that. Best steering feels I've experienced have been in front-engined cars - an old 924 and an E36 BMW.

[Stunters]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I do

I did over 120 miles in the GTS 4.0 in two separate test drives, and it was more than enough to tempt me out of my 981 GT4.
And I also test drove an Elise, Exige and Evora just to make sure I wanted to stay with a Cayman and not move to Lotus.

My cars go on track occasionally and my imminent GTS - expected to be delivered next week - will be no exception. I am very much looking forward to taking delivery, running it in, and then getting it on track next year.

[Rich.H]

James McScotty said:

Thanks. I've owned my 981 CGTS for nearly three years. The steering isn't terrible, I was just wondering/hoping that the 718 steering feel might be better, but if there's not much in it, I'll probably not bother "upgrading".

FWIW, I previously owned a 997 C2S, and the steering feel wasn't too great in that. Best steering feels I've experienced have been in front-engined cars - an old 924 and an E36 BMW.

As a complete package, in my opinion, the 718 GTS 4.0 is a significant step on from the 981 GTS (see my comments on the 718 GTS thread).

Whether it is worth the cost to swap is something I will need to consider. Or whether this changes my original plan of replacing my 981 with a Carrera T......

Try and give one a go and make your own mind up?

Rich