N0 tyres - any favourites?
Discussion
jcosh said:
I really don't understand the hate for P Zero's, I have no problem with them on my 991.2 GTS. Although I have just bought a set of CUP2's for track days. Saving the P Zeros for road, where they are great.
They are actually quite a good tyre in the dry but I found once they get about 50% worn they lose grip Also not the best in the cold and wet . The mIchelin is just better in every area
EvoSid said:
jcosh said:
I really don't understand the hate for P Zero's, I have no problem with them on my 991.2 GTS. Although I have just bought a set of CUP2's for track days. Saving the P Zeros for road, where they are great.
They are actually quite a good tyre in the dry but I found once they get about 50% worn they lose grip Also not the best in the cold and wet . The mIchelin is just better in every area
I got PS4S fitted just because they were cheap, but otherwise would have went P Zero again. Think there’s a lot of other people just repeating what others have said online. I think they’re a great tyre and Porsche wouldn’t have made them a standard fitment if they only worked in ideal conditions.
le_gazman said:
EvoSid said:
jcosh said:
I really don't understand the hate for P Zero's, I have no problem with them on my 991.2 GTS. Although I have just bought a set of CUP2's for track days. Saving the P Zeros for road, where they are great.
They are actually quite a good tyre in the dry but I found once they get about 50% worn they lose grip Also not the best in the cold and wet . The mIchelin is just better in every area
I got PS4S fitted just because they were cheap, but otherwise would have went P Zero again. Think there’s a lot of other people just repeating what others have said online. I think they’re a great tyre and Porsche wouldn’t have made them a standard fitment if they only worked in ideal conditions.
For track use, I use Cup 2 (not tried Cup 2R yet) as you will find that the MPS4S will get hot and go off quite quickly - unless full wet conditions, of course, then I use the MP4S (I haven't got a third set of wheels with Rainsports fitted; though they won't be N0 anyway ...)
Edited by Evo9lution on Monday 12th April 13:05
I had Pirelli P Zero N1s on my car when it was new, and commuting through its first winter was interesting to say the least.
Luckily the rears only lasted 12,000 miles so I swapped out all four on the advice of the forum for Eagle F1s - which was a revelation. Not only were they quieter they also lasted twice as long and actually had grip in the wet and cold. I ended up binning the half worn P zero fronts as they were so bad.
I would love to try the Michelin’s but they don’t make them in my wheel size (18”).
Luckily the rears only lasted 12,000 miles so I swapped out all four on the advice of the forum for Eagle F1s - which was a revelation. Not only were they quieter they also lasted twice as long and actually had grip in the wet and cold. I ended up binning the half worn P zero fronts as they were so bad.
I would love to try the Michelin’s but they don’t make them in my wheel size (18”).
Edited by jimbo761 on Monday 12th April 07:49
jimbo761 said:
I had Pirelli P Zero N1s on my car when it was new, and commuting through its first winter was interesting to say the least.
Luckily the rears only lasted 12,000 miles so I swapped out all four on the advice of the forum for Eagle F1s - which was a revelation. Not only were they quieter they also lasted twice as long and actually had grip in the wet and cold. I ended up binning the half worn P zero fronts as they were so bad.
I would love to try the Michelin’s but they don’t make them in my wheel size (18”).
You can fit MPS4 for 18" rims. Still a very good tyre!Luckily the rears only lasted 12,000 miles so I swapped out all four on the advice of the forum for Eagle F1s - which was a revelation. Not only were they quieter they also lasted twice as long and actually had grip in the wet and cold. I ended up binning the half worn P zero fronts as they were so bad.
I would love to try the Michelin’s but they don’t make them in my wheel size (18”).
Evo9lution said:
jimbo761 said:
I had Pirelli P Zero N1s on my car when it was new, and commuting through its first winter was interesting to say the least.
Luckily the rears only lasted 12,000 miles so I swapped out all four on the advice of the forum for Eagle F1s - which was a revelation. Not only were they quieter they also lasted twice as long and actually had grip in the wet and cold. I ended up binning the half worn P zero fronts as they were so bad.
I would love to try the Michelin’s but they don’t make them in my wheel size (18”).
You can fit MPS4 for 18" rims. Still a very good tyre!Luckily the rears only lasted 12,000 miles so I swapped out all four on the advice of the forum for Eagle F1s - which was a revelation. Not only were they quieter they also lasted twice as long and actually had grip in the wet and cold. I ended up binning the half worn P zero fronts as they were so bad.
I would love to try the Michelin’s but they don’t make them in my wheel size (18”).
If the warranty lapses I would certainly consider them or the SuperSports.
The F1's are still pretty good though, I've not had any issues with them at all.
jimbo761 said:
Evo9lution said:
jimbo761 said:
I had Pirelli P Zero N1s on my car when it was new, and commuting through its first winter was interesting to say the least.
Luckily the rears only lasted 12,000 miles so I swapped out all four on the advice of the forum for Eagle F1s - which was a revelation. Not only were they quieter they also lasted twice as long and actually had grip in the wet and cold. I ended up binning the half worn P zero fronts as they were so bad.
I would love to try the Michelin’s but they don’t make them in my wheel size (18”).
You can fit MPS4 for 18" rims. Still a very good tyre!Luckily the rears only lasted 12,000 miles so I swapped out all four on the advice of the forum for Eagle F1s - which was a revelation. Not only were they quieter they also lasted twice as long and actually had grip in the wet and cold. I ended up binning the half worn P zero fronts as they were so bad.
I would love to try the Michelin’s but they don’t make them in my wheel size (18”).
If the warranty lapses I would certainly consider them or the SuperSports.
The F1's are still pretty good though, I've not had any issues with them at all.
I don't live in the UK, though, so cannot vouch for what they say there but I'd be surprised if they could refuse to pay out on warranty work because of non-N-rated tyres being fitted. I'd imagine that Trading Standards would have a field day on that one, especially given that tyre technology moves on so fast - I'd much rather have Cup 2s or MP4Ss on a CGT, for example, than the original OEM-approved tyre even if they were not N-rated (OK, it will be out of warranty but the point is, why would one not fit the best tyres ...?).
Not had P Zeros on a 911 but they came on my R8. They were under 2 years old from the date stamp and the cracking in the tread grooves was really bad on 2 of them. They still had 6mm left on them and I changed them to MPS4S and the difference on colder damp days was huge.
I find the new tyres to be so much more confident inspiring and I am over the moon with them.
I find the new tyres to be so much more confident inspiring and I am over the moon with them.
I had two sets of P Zeros before changing to PS4S. The PZERO is certainly the more sporty tyre and much more pointy/direct than the PS4S. If you like this aspect don’t expect the PS4S to feel the same, basically the PZERO has a much stiffer sidewall and it’s this that causes the juddering while slow manoeuvring (especially when cold). The problem with the PZERO is in cold/wet conditions it does let go quite suddenly without a great deal of warning. The PS4s is a little softer, the back end feels a bit more mobile, you can actually feel better what the tyre is doing and has a more predictable/gradual loss of grip. In the warm and dry the PZERO limits are probably higher, in the cold/wet the PS4S is much more confidence inspiring and possibly higher limits. Warm and wet probably similar limits but easier to predict the PS4s. All IMO and YMMV.
I actually preferred the PZERO in the warm/dry. But overall the Cold/wet weakness makes the PS4S the better tyre. It’s much better here and only slightly worse in warm/dry.
I actually preferred the PZERO in the warm/dry. But overall the Cold/wet weakness makes the PS4S the better tyre. It’s much better here and only slightly worse in warm/dry.
Evo9lution said:
As I need 20" tyres, mine are N-rated but I was told that non-N-rated MPS4S wouldn't be an issue for the warranty anyway (same would be true for MPS4 for 18" rims); they're basically the same tyre and how is a tyre going to affect the warranty (especially if they're OEM size) anyway?
I don't live in the UK, though, so cannot vouch for what they say there but I'd be surprised if they could refuse to pay out on warranty work because of non-N-rated tyres being fitted. I'd imagine that Trading Standards would have a field day on that one, especially given that tyre technology moves on so fast - I'd much rather have Cup 2s or MP4Ss on a CGT, for example, than the original OEM-approved tyre even if they were not N-rated (OK, it will be out of warranty but the point is, why would one not fit the best tyres ...?).
There’s an important difference between the manufacturers new car warranty, which is protected by EU law, and still applies (for now?) in the UK and it would indeed by hard to argue that the “wrong” tyres affected other parts of the car. I don't live in the UK, though, so cannot vouch for what they say there but I'd be surprised if they could refuse to pay out on warranty work because of non-N-rated tyres being fitted. I'd imagine that Trading Standards would have a field day on that one, especially given that tyre technology moves on so fast - I'd much rather have Cup 2s or MP4Ss on a CGT, for example, than the original OEM-approved tyre even if they were not N-rated (OK, it will be out of warranty but the point is, why would one not fit the best tyres ...?).
The extended warranty on the other hand is quite different and is a simple contract between you and an insurance company, and by taking it out you are agreeing to the terms and conditions of the warranty. One of those conditions is that all work on the car can only be done by an OPC.
Since no OPC will ever fit non N rated tyres, if you have them on your car, you must have had work done by someone else and your warranty is void.
That’s what is says in the policy. Don’t like it - you have a choice not to take it out.
“One of those conditions is that all work on the car can only be done by an OPC”
This is not one of the conditions of the warranty at all, and never has been IME. It’s just the warranty does not cover any failures if caused by work performed by non-OPC.
Having said the above when I had my warranty extended in Feb the OPC Service adviser stated that I had to keep all N rated tyres otherwise claims for such things as Gearbox/Diff might not be covered. So make of that what you will.
This is not one of the conditions of the warranty at all, and never has been IME. It’s just the warranty does not cover any failures if caused by work performed by non-OPC.
Having said the above when I had my warranty extended in Feb the OPC Service adviser stated that I had to keep all N rated tyres otherwise claims for such things as Gearbox/Diff might not be covered. So make of that what you will.
Wollemi said:
Evo9lution said:
As I need 20" tyres, mine are N-rated but I was told that non-N-rated MPS4S wouldn't be an issue for the warranty anyway (same would be true for MPS4 for 18" rims); they're basically the same tyre and how is a tyre going to affect the warranty (especially if they're OEM size) anyway?
I don't live in the UK, though, so cannot vouch for what they say there but I'd be surprised if they could refuse to pay out on warranty work because of non-N-rated tyres being fitted. I'd imagine that Trading Standards would have a field day on that one, especially given that tyre technology moves on so fast - I'd much rather have Cup 2s or MP4Ss on a CGT, for example, than the original OEM-approved tyre even if they were not N-rated (OK, it will be out of warranty but the point is, why would one not fit the best tyres ...?).
There’s an important difference between the manufacturers new car warranty, which is protected by EU law, and still applies (for now?) in the UK and it would indeed by hard to argue that the “wrong” tyres affected other parts of the car. I don't live in the UK, though, so cannot vouch for what they say there but I'd be surprised if they could refuse to pay out on warranty work because of non-N-rated tyres being fitted. I'd imagine that Trading Standards would have a field day on that one, especially given that tyre technology moves on so fast - I'd much rather have Cup 2s or MP4Ss on a CGT, for example, than the original OEM-approved tyre even if they were not N-rated (OK, it will be out of warranty but the point is, why would one not fit the best tyres ...?).
The extended warranty on the other hand is quite different and is a simple contract between you and an insurance company, and by taking it out you are agreeing to the terms and conditions of the warranty. One of those conditions is that all work on the car can only be done by an OPC.
Since no OPC will ever fit non N rated tyres, if you have them on your car, you must have had work done by someone else and your warranty is void.
That’s what is says in the policy. Don’t like it - you have a choice not to take it out.
Regarding warranty in the UK, my understanding is that the law states that the work must be carried out by a VAT-registered company and the parts must be at least equal to the quality of OEM parts - so, a set of AP Racing steel rotors (or OEM rotors, if that was preferred) fitted by a VAT-registered tuner would suffice for a non-PCCB car, theoretically. They may try to argue it but if the above is correct by law, then they may struggle to actually withold payment if it got as far as court.
Evo9lution said:
Glad I live in Switzerland, as my OPC here confirmed that they would be happy to fit non-N-rated tyres as long as they were suitable (i.e. not ditchfinders) and of the correct size.
Regarding warranty in the UK, my understanding is that the law states that the work must be carried out by a VAT-registered company and the parts must be at least equal to the quality of OEM parts - so, a set of AP Racing steel rotors (or OEM rotors, if that was preferred) fitted by a VAT-registered tuner would suffice for a non-PCCB car, theoretically. They may try to argue it but if the above is correct by law, then they may struggle to actually withold payment if it got as far as court.
I think you may be confusing the new car warranty with the extended Porsche warranty. With the 3 year new car warranty you would be ok with a service history that was equal to OEM and carried out by a VAT registered garage. Once you are out of the original used car warranty you are stuck with the contractual terms of the extended warranty. You could try to argue that the terms of the extended warranty were unfair but I would not want to take that chance.Regarding warranty in the UK, my understanding is that the law states that the work must be carried out by a VAT-registered company and the parts must be at least equal to the quality of OEM parts - so, a set of AP Racing steel rotors (or OEM rotors, if that was preferred) fitted by a VAT-registered tuner would suffice for a non-PCCB car, theoretically. They may try to argue it but if the above is correct by law, then they may struggle to actually withold payment if it got as far as court.
Green1man said:
I had two sets of P Zeros before changing to PS4S. The PZERO is certainly the more sporty tyre and much more pointy/direct than the PS4S. If you like this aspect don’t expect the PS4S to feel the same, basically the PZERO has a much stiffer sidewall and it’s this that causes the juddering while slow manoeuvring (especially when cold). The problem with the PZERO is in cold/wet conditions it does let go quite suddenly without a great deal of warning. The PS4s is a little softer, the back end feels a bit more mobile, you can actually feel better what the tyre is doing and has a more predictable/gradual loss of grip. In the warm and dry the PZERO limits are probably higher, in the cold/wet the PS4S is much more confidence inspiring and possibly higher limits. Warm and wet probably similar limits but easier to predict the PS4s. All IMO and YMMV.
I actually preferred the PZERO in the warm/dry. But overall the Cold/wet weakness makes the PS4S the better tyre. It’s much better here and only slightly worse in warm/dry.
I agree 100%, great post.I actually preferred the PZERO in the warm/dry. But overall the Cold/wet weakness makes the PS4S the better tyre. It’s much better here and only slightly worse in warm/dry.
I run the ps4s at a slightly higher pressure to compensate.
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