986 conundrum; 2.5 v 3.2

986 conundrum; 2.5 v 3.2

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Discussion

ATM

18,357 posts

220 months

Wednesday 9th February 2022
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If I remember correctly I think the OP did spend a bit more to get a nice one from a little dealer specialist. So his entry price was a bit on the high side. Exciting will be difficult to do without seeing a bit of a gap between buy and sell price. Of course once you decide the car has to go this isn't necessarily relevant but just worth considering if you're on the fence a little. You spent the time and money choosing a nice one. It would be a shame to let it go now.

I truly believe that as time ticks by the pool of available cars will shrink and the nicer examples will get harder to find. Most Boxster owners have been saying this for years so at some point it has to become true. Mine is now 21 years old but some of the early 2.5 cars are 25. Also the idea behind buying a nicer one was to keep the unexpected expenditure to a minimum. So perhaps don't be so doom and gloom when it comes to your excel estimates.

I've been using my 986 a bit recently. Mine isn't the best example but still makes me happy. I can't quite put my finger on why. I do think the not so linear power delivery had something to do with it. There is a distinct pickup as the revs get to around 3500 area and it suddenly feels peppy. Also the cabin is quite small so it feels like a small car. I still love the profile from the rear with the long flat back and I'm a sucker for the matching hardtop. The modern cars don't offer a hardtop option now.

So far I've spent very little on mine in terms of TLC. Perhaps that's only because i have other cars needing more attention. I've also been trying to persuade my mate to buy one too. Maybe he will and maybe he won't. If this one does go up for sale then please let us know OP. I'll leave this little pic which someone posted in my 986 thread as inspiration for you...



Japcreation

128 posts

89 months

Wednesday 9th February 2022
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The picture above is one of the reasons why I decided to buy one.

Suffering from anxiety and depression for the last couple of years (various reasons) and feeling like I'm existing rather than living has meant that I have decided to do something about it. I bought my 986 to scratch the itch of not having a "toy" car or something to tinker with. If I use it, great. If I don't, hopefully I won't lose too much on it and I can say that I tried.

Hopefully put it on track later in the year and tick something else off the bucket list.

Also, a 986 is much cheaper than a divorce! wink


ATM

18,357 posts

220 months

Wednesday 9th February 2022
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Japcreation said:
Also, a 986 is much cheaper than a divorce! wink
Not in the long run....

WayOutWest

768 posts

59 months

Wednesday 9th February 2022
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TameRacingDriver said:
Ignorance is bliss for sure - I could never own a 996 for this reason, unless I had seriously deep pockets and didn't mind potentially throwing that money away, so I can feel your mates pain. I would have sleepless nights! I'm a relatively risk averse human, so for me, even buying 'just' a 986 took a hand full of brave pills, and I talked myself out of it several times!

For the running costs, I don't feel like I get enough use out of it, and it's unlikely that situation will improve any time soon. Nevertheless, I haven't made any decisions about it yet. It could be super reliable, and I could be acting in haste. I am quite attached to it, but I just know it won't get the use it deserves and I'll always be wondering what else I could do with the money.

If I could find something cheaper (either in terms of purchase price, running costs or both), and have just as much fun on the odd hour I have free on a Saturday, then maybe I'd be in a happier place overall. Having no car would yield the biggest financial benefit, but I think cars are hard wired into my DNA.

I've made no decision yet though, because when I bought the car, at the time, I truly believed it was what I wanted. Now that I have had, I'm just not quite as sure. Whatever happens though I'm super glad to have had the chance to own a Porsche, and this may not be the end, maybe I'm just a bit down about what happened at the weekend, but the long battle between head and heart rages on.
Reading between the lines it sounds like an MX5 might have been a better bet. Not that I'm a huge fan of them but a tuned up facelift model MX5 NC with some BBR conversion seems to be the sweet spot for a cheap to run sports car that is just fast enough to keep up with a base Boxster, provide similar fun and avoid running cost nightmares.
But now you've bought it you might as well keep hold for a while before making any rash decisions.

TameRacingDriver

Original Poster:

18,117 posts

273 months

Wednesday 9th February 2022
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anthonysjb said:
Sorry to see a drive out ended so badly, such a shame. Hope it is a simple enough repair and doesn't hurt too much financially.

Sometimes your priorities do just change, other times you just need a good drive or road trip to get back into it again. If you can sell the car at a decent price and come out of it well and having scratched the itch as best you can, why not. There are other cars out there.
Hopefully it shouldn't hurt financially at all as the other party has admitted liability so I should not need to put my hand in my pocket. Actually getting anyone to do the work seems to proving difficult at the moment though, but that's another story....

Panamax said:
The key thing to bear in mind is these weren't "cheap to run" when they were new and there's no magical way they become "cheap to run" when they get older. In fact, exactly the opposite applies.

Unless you're handy with the spanners it can be a mistake to think a car costing Fiesta money to buy will have Fiesta running costs.

As always in the used car market paying a bit more cash to buy a good example works out a lot cheaper than buying a cheap one that "needs a bit of work".
ATM said:
If I remember correctly I think the OP did spend a bit more to get a nice one from a little dealer specialist. So his entry price was a bit on the high side.
ATM is correct - @ Panamax - if you read the thread, I actually paid a top end price in the hope that I might get a year of trouble free motoring, I certainly did not buy a cheap one and hoped for the best. Its reasonably low miles, has a service folder as thick as an encyclopaedia, and it does seem to be a good car for the most part. I did have an intermittent idling issue, so I took it to a specialist who couldn't find that issue but did realise the top mounts and coffin arms were worn, so that cost a bit, then I had a problem with the battery (10 years old) now replaced, nothing major really.

I certainly did not have the impression it would have the running costs of a Fiesta!

ATM said:
Exciting will be difficult to do without seeing a bit of a gap between buy and sell price. Of course once you decide the car has to go this isn't necessarily relevant but just worth considering if you're on the fence a little. You spent the time and money choosing a nice one. It would be a shame to let it go now.

I truly believe that as time ticks by the pool of available cars will shrink and the nicer examples will get harder to find. Most Boxster owners have been saying this for years so at some point it has to become true. Mine is now 21 years old but some of the early 2.5 cars are 25. Also the idea behind buying a nicer one was to keep the unexpected expenditure to a minimum. So perhaps don't be so doom and gloom when it comes to your excel estimates.

I've been using my 986 a bit recently. Mine isn't the best example but still makes me happy. I can't quite put my finger on why. I do think the not so linear power delivery had something to do with it. There is a distinct pickup as the revs get to around 3500 area and it suddenly feels peppy. Also the cabin is quite small so it feels like a small car. I still love the profile from the rear with the long flat back and I'm a sucker for the matching hardtop. The modern cars don't offer a hardtop option now.

So far I've spent very little on mine in terms of TLC. Perhaps that's only because i have other cars needing more attention. I've also been trying to persuade my mate to buy one too. Maybe he will and maybe he won't. If this one does go up for sale then please let us know OP. I'll leave this little pic which someone posted in my 986 thread as inspiration for you...
You're correct of course, if I sell up now, I could end up losing a couple of grand just to get out of it, which doesn't seem particularly appealing either.

Indeed, the idea of buying a nicer one was to avoid heavy costs, but apart from the aforementioned suspension components, it hasn't cost much, but then again, that's because I've not driven it as much as I'd like - blame winter, flat batteries and flying objects for that, but I agree I should maybe not be so doom and gloom with my running predictions.

The opportunities for photos like yours would certainly be nice and might change my opinion though!

Japcreation said:
The picture above is one of the reasons why I decided to buy one.

Suffering from anxiety and depression for the last couple of years (various reasons) and feeling like I'm existing rather than living has meant that I have decided to do something about it. I bought my 986 to scratch the itch of not having a "toy" car or something to tinker with. If I use it, great. If I don't, hopefully I won't lose too much on it and I can say that I tried.

Hopefully put it on track later in the year and tick something else off the bucket list.

Also, a 986 is much cheaper than a divorce! wink
Been there with the old A&D over the last few years, and yeah, it works, while you're driving it. On the flipside though, the hassle that comes with car ownership at times certainly doesn't help I'm afraid to say, and from past experience with other cars, getting a 4-figure bill tends to ruin your day/week/month which is always a possibility with these by all accounts.

WayOutWest said:
Reading between the lines it sounds like an MX5 might have been a better bet. Not that I'm a huge fan of them but a tuned up facelift model MX5 NC with some BBR conversion seems to be the sweet spot for a cheap to run sports car that is just fast enough to keep up with a base Boxster, provide similar fun and avoid running cost nightmares.
But now you've bought it you might as well keep hold for a while before making any rash decisions.
The irony is, the MX5 was the other choice. In fact I even looked at one that was 3k more than the Boxster S I ended up getting, an NC with some tuning and the folding hard top. Problem is, while it would have been cheaper to run and more reliable for the most part, they tend to have a nasty habit of turning to brown dust.

However, given that it's almost certainly going to leave me out of pocket to sell up now, it makes no sense to do so ultimately.

So it's more likely than not it will be staying. The next step is to find someone to do the work: The insurance company arranged a company to do the repairs, who then apparently told the insurance company they couldn't take on the work due to storm damage at the premises, but nobody bothered to tell me until I investigated why nobody has been in touch. So I rang the insurance company who denied that the repairer had told them this, and followed up. Then had to try and arrange another, who I was assured would be ringing me today... guess what? rolleyes And this is where I'm coming from, hobbies should be fun, and this ISN'T fun. So I've another round of phone calls and being fked about tomorrow then...

ATM

18,357 posts

220 months

Wednesday 9th February 2022
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OP

Tell the insurance company you will find the repairer yourself. Call you local Porsche dealer and ask them who they recommend for Insurance repair bodywork.

Simple

TameRacingDriver

Original Poster:

18,117 posts

273 months

Thursday 10th February 2022
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ATM - great shout with this advice. After a bit of phoning back and forth, I've got it booked into the Porsche approved bodyshop in town, and it'll be collected on Tuesday, which is great as a lot of places were refusing the work or stating 4-6 week waiting times. At least I know the repair work will/should be up to scratch smile

Skyedriver

17,990 posts

283 months

Monday 7th March 2022
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Hello guys, am I being silly?
V plate, 3.2S, 30k miles, service history, 2 owner, most recent for many years, MoT history shows very few miles each year, in auction.
Over 300 miles away so can't just go and view.
What sort of price and is it worth a risky punt?
Thanks

edc

9,244 posts

252 months

Monday 7th March 2022
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Skyedriver said:
Hello guys, am I being silly?
V plate, 3.2S, 30k miles, service history, 2 owner, most recent for many years, MoT history shows very few miles each year, in auction.
Over 300 miles away so can't just go and view.
What sort of price and is it worth a risky punt?
Thanks
Are you buying it to potter around in and have a relatively low mile one? If so get it. I had a 58k mile 2000 V at 12 years old and it needed new brakes all round and I changed all the suspension arms springs and dampers and it made a big difference to the handling.

ATM

18,357 posts

220 months

Tuesday 8th March 2022
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Skyedriver said:
Hello guys, am I being silly?
V plate, 3.2S, 30k miles, service history, 2 owner, most recent for many years, MoT history shows very few miles each year, in auction.
Over 300 miles away so can't just go and view.
What sort of price and is it worth a risky punt?
Thanks
I saw your post in the poverty pork thread. Car looks nice but its difficult to distinguish between nice and really nice with just pics. As said above it depends what you want and why you're buying this one snd what you mean by risky?

I recently bought an even lower mileage 986 3.2s. Mine is a 2001 so has electronic boot release rather than levers. Otherwise very similar car.

The advert for yours mentions receipts so can you ask to see them remotely. With cars like this it important to know what's been changed recently.

Mine had all new brakes - discs look brand new - he told me it had a new clutch too which I can only confirm by feel but it does feel nice. He had also fitted a silly loud cheap rear silencer. So that's it. Mine drives ok but it's not brilliant. So I suspect it needs some suspension bits and pieces. The gear change is a bit stiff and occasionally gets a bit lost in no man's land. It's also sprung a leak from the hard top. I've took the door panels off as they have the original seals on the membranes which are well past their best. I was keen to keep the hardtop on as the canvas roof has a small hole in it and the plastic screen isn't great, it's a bit cloudy. The cherry on top for me was mine has been freshly painted all over, including the hardtop and speedster humps.

So in summary mine needs some suspension and other light fettling to make perfect and I mean Perfect. You couldn't eat your dinner off the underside but it all looks great. As soon as I saw the nuts and fixings in the door shuts and under the battery cover it was an obvious buy. Mine has basically been dry stored since new. So I've bought a car which has not really been used at all. Some components have clearly gone off with age which is to be expected and I'll need to work through them if I keep the car. I wanted a really nice early Boxster and that's what I've got. I might have done better to buy a car with a bit more usage under its belt and therefore more stuff recently changed or replaced from servicing and maintenance but I'm happy with the car.

So I know nothing about this car but if its only had some oil changes and brake fluid changes then it will need some fettling to make perfect. But you could still enjoy the car as is if your OCD allows. My OCD is negligible compared to some of my mates who couldn't cope with some of the gremlins I'm dealing with. I spent 4 or 5 years looking for a nice 986 and now I feel like I've got one. If I didn't have mine I'd be tempted to take a punt on yours but again it all depends what you want from a car.

Mine now lives outside and I feel bad about that. I just use it like any old car now. A few years of being outside will start to deteriorate all the bright factory fresh nuts and fastenings mentioned above. But I'll be left with a low mileage car I like and I know and I want and I'm fine with that.

Your car has seen some life before being moth balled so it might not be as factory fresh as mine but it should be very tidy. It could be brilliant or it could be just quite nice. If you want a pristine car to keep in a car coon and only use very occasionally that's very different from someone like me who wants a car to leave outside and just treat like a normal car.

So I'm not sure this has helped?

Tell us what you plan to do with the car, why you like this particular car, what you expect, if you're handy with the spanners and where you sit on the OCD scale.

Skyedriver

17,990 posts

283 months

Tuesday 8th March 2022
quotequote all
Thanks ATM, very helpful
Brief History: I'm 68, had interesting cars most of my life, current garage is old Volvo Estate, Lotus Excel & Caterham (1991 crossflow built myself).
Twenty years or thereabouts with V8 TVRs (Wedges & Chimaeras). Last one sold a month ago.
Fancied a 911 since I was 17, drove a few old air cooled ones back in the 80's & 90's - a case of don't meet your hero or not the examples I tried anyway.
Would go for a early 996 but twice the price of a 986 which is compromised by only two seats but most of the time I'm on my own anyway.
Car use would be local runs out (live west coast Scotland), general use and maybe a more practical car in the road going hillclimb classes than a Caterham in the rain...and probably more competitive than a 4 litre Chimaera! (Don't tell them I said that). Annual mileage probably around 5K max.
Done plenty spannering over the years, engines, clutches, suspension, brakes, bodywork but at 68 those days are over and most work will need to be carried out by an indie.
Going to call the auction house for a chat, good call about looking at ALL the receipts, hopefully at 30K miles there shouldn't be any probs with IMS & bore scoring?

ATM

18,357 posts

220 months

Tuesday 8th March 2022
quotequote all
If you are relying on an indie for jobs then I would advise you to buy one which is tip top maintenance wise. Just like the OP did. I think his car still needed some bits and pieces but it was a small list. Costs can escalate quickly with these cars and if you are using an indie that adds labour also. The biggest problem seems to be nuts and bolts seizing or snapping and needing drilling out. I changed some discs on one of my 996 cars and even that wasn't simple due to old crusty nuts and bolts. So if you're going to use the car properly then you dont want a garage queen. I think you want something which has been maintained well and this car might not be that car. The thing with these cars is they are quite cheap yes but at the same time that means people run them on lower budgets. You can find 996 cars which have been treated to new upgraded suspension, modified exhausts and other bits and pieces. I want post any examples. But in general 986 cars dont get languished with this kind of love. You just dont see these cars available second hand. So I'd be pushing you towards a car that has been treated to some mild refurbishment and upgrading rather than a low mileage garage queen like this one. You dont necessarily need upgrades but the fact that the owner has spent the money gives you some confidence that the rest of the car should be tip top. Good 986 cars are out there but I think they are harder to find and you want to be buying direct from the Previous Owner so you can talk to him and get more details and confidence in the car or buying from a good indie like the OP did.

Skyedriver

17,990 posts

283 months

Tuesday 8th March 2022
quotequote all
Again, thank you ATM.
Have contacted the auction house, waiting a call back.
This one has 5 stamps in the service book the last 300 miles but over 3 years ago...A full folder of paperwork accompanies the car.
I've read a few threads about seized nuts & bolts, find it hard to believe on a "quality" product. My old Volvo (200K miles 25 years old) everything just unbolts like new. There again there's TVR......

ATM

18,357 posts

220 months

Tuesday 8th March 2022
quotequote all
The nuts and bolts are not quality. Dont forget the Boxster saved Porsche from going out of business. Corners were definitely cut on quality in some areas.

julian987R

6,840 posts

60 months

Tuesday 8th March 2022
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Is part of the problem more on the unnecessary over-tightening of bolts over the years. It was with my 944T.

ATM

18,357 posts

220 months

Tuesday 8th March 2022
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julian987R said:
Is part of the problem more on the unnecessary over-tightening of bolts over the years. It was with my 944T.
Exhaust manifold bolts are a common one. Just due to the heat cycles mainly and then add in some water and salt and you have a recipe for crustiness which leads to disintegration.

I was reading something the other day where someone experienced calliper bolts snapping - as in brake calliper. Now I'm not sure if they can be over tightened much because the official torque spec is like 180 somethings. That is a big number. There are an M12 bolt - which is chunky.

Another problem is steel bolts going into alloy which fuses or something like that. So they dont like coming back out if they have been in there for a while.

LennyM1984

654 posts

69 months

Tuesday 8th March 2022
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ATM said:
I was reading something the other day where someone experienced calliper bolts snapping - as in brake calliper. Now I'm not sure if they can be over tightened much because the official torque spec is like 180 somethings. That is a big number. There are an M12 bolt - which is chunky.
I really hope that yours haven't been tightened up to 180 anything. The torque spec is 85nm or 63ish ft lbs. That isn't huge at all. If somebody tightened them up to even 180nm,they'd stretch at the very least

ATM

18,357 posts

220 months

Tuesday 8th March 2022
quotequote all
LennyM1984 said:
ATM said:
I was reading something the other day where someone experienced calliper bolts snapping - as in brake calliper. Now I'm not sure if they can be over tightened much because the official torque spec is like 180 somethings. That is a big number. There are an M12 bolt - which is chunky.
I really hope that yours haven't been tightened up to 180 anything. The torque spec is 85nm or 63ish ft lbs. That isn't huge at all. If somebody tightened them up to even 180nm,they'd stretch at the very least
Ok sorry, I don't know where I got that number from.

Skyedriver

17,990 posts

283 months

Wednesday 9th March 2022
quotequote all
Skyedriver said:
Again, thank you ATM.
Have contacted the auction house, waiting a call back...
Rang yesterday and again today still not managed to speak to anyone. (They may have called yesterday, I missed a call but no answer when I ring back).
Someone has offered to call in for me.

ATM

18,357 posts

220 months

Saturday 21st May 2022
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TameRacingDriver said:
ATM - great shout with this advice. After a bit of phoning back and forth, I've got it booked into the Porsche approved bodyshop in town, and it'll be collected on Tuesday, which is great as a lot of places were refusing the work or stating 4-6 week waiting times. At least I know the repair work will/should be up to scratch smile
Hey OP

What's happening here

Do you still have the car or has it gone?